Why are Engineers so obsessed with Grenades?

[Lynx.9058]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It could easily be made to work with e-specs. Why would you even say something like this?

Not everyone wants to use kits, for one.  Forcing it is a bad idea.

Holosmith and scrapper use f5 for their spec mechanics.

If anything, kits should take up engineers secondary weapon slot, and be swappable to in combat like a normal weapon swap.  That way everyone can pick one kit to use with no detriment to the rest of their build.

[The Boz.2038]

Was specifically thinking making Holo's forge their kit, and no access to a second kit.

Your scrapper remark ignores the util#3 line.

[Lynx.9058]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Was specifically thinking making Holo's forge their kit, and no access to a second kit.

Your scrapper remark ignores the util#3 line.

So now you're depriving an espec of the option to use kits.  You're also ignoring the fact that medkit exists, which has to be put into the healing slot and not a utility slot.

Sure, you could force the kits into utility 3, but now you're probably screwing with a huge chunk of players who have their bars set up differently.  I run flamethrower on utility 4 with my scrapper, for example, and use 2 and 3 for gyros.

It's not a solution you're offering, it's a bandaid to try and cover up how bad kit design is in the first place.

[The Boz.2038]

52 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

So now you're depriving an espec of the option to use kits. 

Tradeoffs yo.

[shion.2084]

On 10/2/2022 at 5:23 AM, Sifu.9745 said:

Of course i don't use Grenadier trait (which only affects Grenade Kit), i've been using Short Fuse instead: 25% almost perma crit. I already have around 75% crit chance with some Firearms traits included.  75% + 25% = 100%. Being crit capped is is way more important for my Rifle, Hammer and ALL other weapons, kits.

Anyway i am done with Grenades. You can't really use them  without taking Grenadier trait. And i won't take that trait.

You can use them.... you just need to trait for it.   

You said
"n my hands they are completely useless. Though most metabattle core and elite specs favorize Grenade Kit"

I told you why they are useless in your hands and why the meta battle builds can use them.  If you don't want to do what it takes to make them effective that's fine, but you still have the answer to your question about why everyone else can use them.

[shion.2084]

8 hours ago, Bellarth.8794 said:

I would agree that grenades kit feels really slow and unsatisfying imo, iv been trying to use it in my rotation but still feels not quite right. now after reading this thread i see its probably not worth using the kit if i dont use Grenadier which i don't as i prefer Short fuse, Maybe il just go back to throw mine or something like that.

Running Mortar with quickness can do lots of ranged damage and has the utility of a blind, a chill and a heal.   (the light field on the blind can also be condi removal ) If your running something like scrapper and looking for a utility slot for damage... you can run shredder gyro, it also gives you a pulsing stun on tool belt.  Its nice passive damage with a  large AOE when traited.

Edited October 3, 2022 by shion.2084

[Lynx.9058]

38 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Tradeoffs yo.

Exactly what the devs just said they're trying to get rid of

[draxynnic.3719]

The bigger problem here is that engineer is designed around being able to invest as much into kits as they like, from five to none. The proposed rework, as well as doing nothing to address the OP's observation (if engineer was limited to one kit, DPS engineers will probably default to 'nades, while heal engis would be heavily impacted), would destroy the engineer theme and require rebalancing the entire profession from the ground up.

[The Boz.2038]

13 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Exactly what the devs just said they're trying to get rid of

So you want the Holosmith to somehow have access to the entire toolbelt, and also the forge on an F6 or something?
You want Mechanist with F6-F9 mech commands?

[Okhu.7948]

Most engineers I know don't actually like grenade kit. I'm one of them. I prefer literally any other kit other than grenade kit.

[Lynx.9058]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

So you want the Holosmith to somehow have access to the entire toolbelt, and also the forge on an F6 or something?
You want Mechanist with F6-F9 mech commands?

For holosmith, I don't see the issue having the toolbelt as well as holoforge.

For mechanist, there is no toolbelt at all, so nothing would change for them.

This is why I suggested allowing kits to be equipped as a secondary weapon and swapped to (minus healing kit, which needs to remain a heal slot ability).  Every engineer would get exactly one kit (two with healing kit, if taken) and can use it in addition to their normal weapon.  No more using 2+ kits at a time, which means they can be properly balanced to be substitutes for an actual weapon, which engineer has been deprived of since the beginning specifically because of the existence of kits.

Set up that way, every engineer spec would have their primary weapon (mainhand/offhand), and select  grenade kit, bomb kit, elixir gun, toolkit, or flamethrower as their 'secondary weapon' to swap to in combat.  Mortar would remain an elite (though it needs some buffs IMO), healing kit would remain in the healing slot.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 10/3/2022 at 2:12 PM, The Boz.2038 said:

Was specifically thinking making Holo's forge their kit, and no access to a second kit.

Your scrapper remark ignores the util#3 line.

Stop. Its already dead!

Posters like Lynx and a couple others just do not get engi kit playstyle at all. You are not supposed to stay in it and aa on grenade kit in pve. You are supposed to go in, use 1-3 skills, get out.

Also grenade aa does exists. Everyone should use instant range indicators anyways and holding down 1 turns it into an aa. Kits are the only decent utilities pve engi has. Turrets are just turrets. The only dmg dealing gadget is mine. Reducing engi to 1 kit can only work for elite specs and all of them would struggle without grenade kit.

[Lynx.9058]

31 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Stop. Its already dead!

Posters like Lynx and a couple others just do not get engi kit playstyle at all. You are not supposed to stay in it and aa on grenade kit in pve. You are supposed to go in, use 1-3 skills, get out.

Also grenade aa does exists. Everyone should use instant range indicators anyways and holding down 1 turns it into an aa. Kits are the only decent utilities pve engi has. Turrets are just turrets. The only dmg dealing gadget is mine. Reducing engi to 1 kit can only work for elite specs and all of them would struggle without grenade kit.

Oh I "get it", I just disagree that the current design is fun in any way.  There seems to be a subset of players who, for whatever insane reason, actually like piano gameplay though.  Probably why they're here and not playing any of the other MMO's on the market, it's one of the things guild wars 2 seems to be known for that is frustrating to anyone who's played another MMO.

[Noc Rubu.5804]

Why are Engineers so obsessed with Grenades?

I'm not.  You can lock the thread now.

[The Boz.2038]

2 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

For holosmith, I don't see the issue having the toolbelt as well as holoforge.

Enter holoforge how if entire toolbelt?