Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 It seems like most of the time whenever I use grand finale it doesnt actually throw all 4 orbs and instead throws only 3 or 2, despite the fact 4 of them are active O_o Is this a known issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus.6415 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) Hammer orbs are the worst aspect of catalyst to be honest. I've also witnessed that bug... or whatever it is. The next extremely frustrating thing about the orbs is that when they hit an invulnerable enemy, they are gone... and they are gone when hitting an enemy with aegis. It's not like they just don't tick damage and condis on invuln or aegis'ed enemies while passing through, NO! they are immediately deleted. It's so cool when you fight raidbosses or strike bosses that phase and suddenly you wonder why that awful jade sphere energy isn't charging up faster, just to find out there are no orbs circling around anymore. You can't keep up the quickness boon and are reminded again, that this spec mechanic is a complete desaster in the actual game. 👍 Edited October 22, 2022 by Markus.6415 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tykel.6073 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 The orbs do have a lot of issues and imo shouldn’t be a weapon skill in the first place. Just makes no sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 That is just ridiculous, if they can't make the kitten thing work they should just change it to something else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeyeti.8347 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) Oh well another ele bug , nice , we have evasive arcana not working on fire , the orbs on hammer bugging , what else ... I hope serioulsy the next balance patch ele will have some love , the whole 3 e-specs are finished with glue and rotten wooden plancks ... and i really want to keep it polite so i am not talking about core ele 🤢🤮🦨. Edited October 23, 2022 by zeyeti.8347 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 The best thing about the orbs is they are the best fashion wats ele has with leggy weapons. The worst part about orbs is everything other than that 😅 Please just remove energy from the sphere, it's not needed, it was never needed, it's inconvenient fluff and bloat to make the spec look like it has more than it really has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batalix.2873 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said: The best thing about the orbs is they are the best fashion wats ele has with leggy weapons. The worst part about orbs is everything other than that 😅 Please just remove energy from the sphere, it's not needed, it was never needed, it's inconvenient fluff and bloat to make the spec look like it has more than it really has. Some form of energy charge is actually a really good feature. It conveys a great intersection of shaman/geomancer channeling and Canthan jade tech. Without it, Catalyst would even moreso be just Ele with hammer. Energy should be reworked, but I do not agree with all the Ele players who keep wanting to water down their Ele specs to just be "core ele with weapon". Furthermore, if that is your biggest problem with the spec instead of the fact that it is a one-trick pony designed around spamming attunements and mashing hammer 3 like a crappy, janky version of Weave Self... I don't like the anti-energy trend floating around. It's not coming from a very thoughtful place that respects the depth of other espec design in this game. Just the archaic and nearly extinct Ele neanderthals wanting four elements brrrrrrr. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberheart.8426 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, CourtJester.5908 said: Some form of energy charge is actually a really good feature. It conveys a great intersection of shaman/geomancer channeling and Canthan jade tech. Without it, Catalyst would even moreso be just Ele with hammer. Energy should be reworked, but I do not agree with all the Ele players who keep wanting to water down their Ele specs to just be "core ele with weapon". Furthermore, if that is your biggest problem with the spec instead of the fact that it is a one-trick pony designed around spamming attunements and mashing hammer 3 like a crappy, janky version of Weave Self... I don't like the anti-energy trend floating around. It's not coming from a very thoughtful place that respects the depth of other espec design in this game. Just the archaic and nearly extinct Ele neanderthals wanting four elements brrrrrrr. I would love a spec with an energy system but this is not it. Giving the ele a single new skill and energy will never make sense, as opposed to a shroud, form, or something similar. The energy system is just a relic from the previous way the sphere worked in beta. Anything energy can add to the current spheres is better done with ammunition recharges. Edited October 24, 2022 by Emberheart.8426 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Emberheart.8426 said: I would love a spec with an energy system but this is not it. Giving the ele a single new skill and energy will never make sense, as opposed to a shroud, form, or something similar. The energy system is just a relic from the previous way the sphere worked in beta. Anything energy can add to the current spheres is better done with ammunition recharges. I strongly agree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batalix.2873 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, Emberheart.8426 said: I would love a spec with an energy system but this is not it. Giving the ele a single new skill and energy will never make sense, as opposed to a shroud, form, or something similar. The energy system is just a relic from the previous way the sphere worked in beta. Anything energy can add to the current spheres is better done with ammunition recharges. On this we can agree. Energy needs more reliable sources of buildup (and maybe more ways to spend it, although I think just being able to summon spheres constantly would be enough). As implemented it needs a lot of work, but I also think the concept generally belongs on Catalyst. The whole espec needs an overhaul, but I think they could do it without retiring any of the core concepts or assets. I think it just needs to lean heavier into methods of channeling/summoning outside of hammer 3. My proposals: * Remove Grand Finale from Hammer 3. Give hammer 3 charges so you can summon multiple orbs of the same element, maximum 4. * Tie augments back into the concept better by having stacking/tiered effect based on how many orbs of the same element you have up. * Give 1 energy for each orb you summon. * Keep energized elements or whatever it is called, but make the cooldown for the element you are already attuned to extremely short, allowing you to "reattune" for a quick 2 energy points to pump up energy quickly. * Put Grand Finale as an effect triggered on hammer 5. * Don't remove energy, but instead remove the sphere's cooldown and keep tuning up energy building until it becomes viable. This would fix so many problems: * Easy energy generation for more frequent sphere summoning and constant boon uptime. * Flexibility of attunement uses and the ability to camp elements instead of spastically swapping just for hammer 3 for a kitten weave self. A balancing of staying in one element for amplified effects, but having the option to attunement swap for even faster energy/orb generation if things are on cooldown. * The ability for nonhammer Catalysts to feel viable, with hammer only having a marginal leg up on energy generation (1 per orb vs reattunement pumping) and augments (orb benefits) * Making Augments feels a bit more relevant/distinct, since they now tie in with hammer/orb but also will see more viability with higher combo field uptime. Also they will incentivize decision making regarding whether to fire off orbs for damage/energy generation, or to keep them for your augment. * Making hammer orbs a more versatile skill, where there is more to them if they don't fire off or disappear. They generate energy on summoning now, which means if they disappear that's just more energy for you. And if they don't fire off, you can still reap the augment benefit. * The energy/cooldown double-restriction is removed, but energy is retained as a cool class feature whereas the cooldown is a harder cap on boon-providing that Catalyst really should have the option to maintain near-constant uptime for with the right build/role. Edited October 25, 2022 by CourtJester.5908 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, CourtJester.5908 said: Some form of energy charge is actually a really good feature. It conveys a great intersection of shaman/geomancer channeling and Canthan jade tech. Without it, Catalyst would even moreso be just Ele with hammer. Energy should be reworked, but I do not agree with all the Ele players who keep wanting to water down their Ele specs to just be "core ele with weapon". Furthermore, if that is your biggest problem with the spec instead of the fact that it is a one-trick pony designed around spamming attunements and mashing hammer 3 like a crappy, janky version of Weave Self... I don't like the anti-energy trend floating around. It's not coming from a very thoughtful place that respects the depth of other espec design in this game. Just the archaic and nearly extinct Ele neanderthals wanting four elements brrrrrrr. I didn't say that's my biggest problem with the spec, but it is rather bloated and doesn't fit as neatly as any other energy system. Energy channeling if well thought out can be good, but cata's feels tacked on, even visually so. It doesn't have the ramp up of warrior's adrenaline or the time factor of necros life force, nor the more classic nature of rev's energy. The focus of my comment was on the orbs, and how much they are relied on to have access to the profession mechanic of sorts. I'm not looking for a new mech class, but the way energy workson cata it's better off without it or rework how it works all together. I love ele, played it since beta, hammer and sword are my favourite weapons for the class despite some of the issues that hammer in particular has. I also enjoy the complexity of the class. However the fact is energy or not without hammer catalyst has little to no flavour from core. If the energy did something more interesting like increase potency at higher levels, in a similar fashion to holosmith or warrior then yes I would agree with you. But as it is now, it doesn't add anything of value to the class. Turning spheres into a kind of burst skill would be pretty interesting, but that is not what they are now. Edited October 25, 2022 by Serephen.3420 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Why does catalyst need an energy mechanic that even the UI doesn't exist for? All it does is pointlessly gate jade sphere despite jade sphere having a cooldown. The mechanics are elemental empowerment , augments if you choose to use them, and jade sphere really. The aura interaction is entirely optional. Hammer is optional to play catalyst even if it is the best choice. You can play catalyst sans auras but Empowering Auras exists. Anyhow it is disappointing the hammer orbs are still busted. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/22/2022 at 2:06 PM, Markus.6415 said: The next extremely frustrating thing about the orbs is that when they hit an invulnerable enemy, they are gone... and they are gone when hitting an enemy with aegis. It's not like they just don't tick damage and condis on invuln or aegis'ed enemies while passing through, NO! they are immediately deleted. wait till you find out, that if they hit someone that has magaura... they will actually hurt you! ❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batalix.2873 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said: Why does catalyst need an energy mechanic that even the UI doesn't exist for? All it does is pointlessly gate jade sphere despite jade sphere having a cooldown. The mechanics are elemental empowerment , augments if you choose to use them, and jade sphere really. The aura interaction is entirely optional. Hammer is optional to play catalyst even if it is the best choice. You can play catalyst sans auras but Empowering Auras exists. Anyhow it is disappointing the hammer orbs are still busted. If jade sphere is the source of Catalyst's boon support, then it shouldn't have a cooldown. I would abandon an hard limitation like a cooldown that keeps Catalyst down, before I removed energy, and instead just made energy generation faster and more reliable so Catalyst could be firing sphere off all the time. I think the biggest problem with energy that makes people so dismissive of it is that it doesn't thematically feel like you are charging anything...you're just rotating through the attunements like you would on any other Ele spec. And that is the same problem with hammer 3 orbs. Neither really was implemented in a way that makes you feel like a shaman/channeler, so people are just assuming the ideas behind them must be crap. I look at class design as matter of archetype and identity. Catalyst is very clearly shaman/geomancer that uses a jade tech orb instead of a summoning stone/totem. I love that. I love that it connects dragonjade energy storage with the idea of channeling environmental energy. On paper it is one of the best designed spec in the expansion, beautifully tying together classic MMO/RPG jobs with the Canthan setting (along with I would argue BS and Spectre). People criticizing energy are not looking at energy from a design standpoint but from a pure mechanical frustration position. And while I get that, I don't think anyone is considering how conceptually gutted catalyst would be without a "channeling/charging" mechanic in some form or other. Energy is the thing tying the geomancer hammer (magic drawn from the earth) the summoner/channeler orb (self-centered magic spheres/baubles, in FFXI terms, indicolures), the Jadesphere battery-shaman-totem-thing (group terrain and aura buffs, in FFXI terms, luopan-centered geocolures), and Canthan jade tech (which literally stores and transports/transfers energy) together. Without it, Catalyst is just Core Ele playing croquet with features that are now not just mechanically disparate but also aesthetically confused, and no cool Canthan jadetech flavor. So I'm sorry but I do not share the reactionary sentiment to purge legitimately good creative design, and indeed the fundamental identity of an espec, when it could just as easily be refined. If the one-per-element redirection were removed from both jade-sphere attunement charging and hammer 3 orbs and you were allowed to "pump" orbs and reattunements for faster energy generation, I think energy would feel a lot closer to what it wants to be. If energy acted more as an enabler rather than a limiter, as Serephen compared to Holosmith or Warrior, I don't think players would want to just summarily get rid of it. Edited October 25, 2022 by CourtJester.5908 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsterfortytwo.6712 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, CourtJester.5908 said: * Put Grand Finale as an effect triggered on hammer 5. You had me up to this point! Hammer 5 does so much it would be too much of a trade-off to loose orbs every time you press it. Edited October 25, 2022 by Mogsterfortytwo.6712 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batalix.2873 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mogsterfortytwo.6712 said: You had me up to this point! Hammer 5 does so much it would be too much of a trade-off to loose orbs every time you press it. Fair enough. Where it goes doesn't matter much to me as long as it's not on hammer 3. Maybe put it on hammer 4? Or as a passive on attunement swap? Edited October 25, 2022 by CourtJester.5908 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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