Alliances are nowhere near complete. Poorly managed project with serious concerns.

[Chaba.5410]

8 minutes ago, jul.7602 said:

The point is that its a garbage idea, wasting everyone's time. It's no popular, or even initially asked for by the community. Anet is just digging themselves a bigger whole until enough people finally tell them to drop the dumb idea.

It was asked for "by the community" though.  I put that in quotes because the community isn't generally in agreement all the time nor in the best position to design games.  For example, here's an old guild leader asking for exactly that:  https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Vote-to-Delete-Servers-Make-new-Worlds  This was from 2017.  Similar ideas can be found in that old forum archive going back to 2014.

Anet's at the point where they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.  This same community wants changes and yet also doesn't want changes.  I wouldn't personally listen to the community.  It's not needed since anyone can identify the flaws of the current design, which even back at launch people were able to identify.  Working to mitigate, modify, or fix the flaws doesn't really need the community to do so.  The only thing they're trying to accomplish while making changes is to not do things like outright delete servers and force everyone to pick a new one without care of existing guilds; the "nuke" option.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Xenesis.6389]

5 hours ago, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

He who shall not be named: World Restructuring

Yeah I got tired of typing out World Restructuring every time we're talking about it, and saying alliances confuses people because some still think it's an entire world and not just a squad of guilds.

so WR it is.

[jul.7602]

20 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

It was asked for "by the community" though.  I put that in quotes because the community isn't generally in agreement all the time nor in the best position to design games.  For example, here's an old guild leader asking for exactly that:  https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Vote-to-Delete-Servers-Make-new-Worlds  This was from 2017.  Similar ideas can be found in that old forum archive going back to 2014.

Anet's at the point where they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.  This same community wants changes and yet also doesn't want changes.  I wouldn't personally listen to the community.  It's not needed since anyone can identify the flaws of the current design, which even back at launch people were able to identify.  Working to mitigate, modify, or fix the flaws doesn't really need the community to do so.  The only thing they're trying to accomplish while making changes is to not do things like outright delete servers and force everyone to pick a new one without care of existing guilds; the "nuke" option.

Except it wasn't asked by the community. Suggestions are heterogenous, a guild leader here or there making a post doesn't count as a community. The vast majority of wvw players do not have dedicated WvW guilds, so it's incredible to me that anet would think a system like alliances has any chance of being well recieved.

 

That being said, there are actually several things that the community has been asking for, that have almost unanimous agreement. Anet could have focused their dev resources on these things that would have *immediately* made the game more enjoyable instead of gambling the fate of WvW on some drastic change that very possibly will never even be completed.

 

1) Better rewards

2) Better and more frequent balance patches

3) Updates/quality of life improvements to maps.

 

 

[Chaba.5410]

Just now, jul.7602 said:

Except it wasn't asked by the community. Suggestions are heterogenous, a guild leader here or there making a post doesn't count as a community. The vast majority of wvw players do not have dedicated WvW guilds, so it's incredible to me that anet would think a system like alliances has any chance of being well recieved.

A single guy offering his personal opinion doesn't count as a community either.  I don't really need to post more examples of individuals talking about something similiar to alliances or having battlegroup/battlegrounds or merging all servers or using an ESO type factions model to show an aggregate that "the community" is looking for a fix to the flaws of the game mode.  But I can if you really need to rehash those posts.

[jul.7602]

18 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

A single guy offering his personal opinion doesn't count as a community either.  I don't really need to post more examples of individuals talking about something similiar to alliances or having battlegroup/battlegrounds or merging all servers or using an ESO type factions model to show an aggregate that "the community" is looking for a fix to the flaws of the game mode.  But I can if you really need to rehash those posts.

But again. We're falling into this statistical rabbit hole again. The active WvW player population is at least several thousand people. Only a fraction of them even visit the forums, let alone actually post here so there is no 'aggregation' here. We don't have any statistical meaningful sample of opinions that could even remotely qualify as 'the community'.

Edited December 5, 2022 by jul.7602

[Xenesis.6389]

The question is, what's going to be the end goal to all this. They can balance the populations right down to a 1to1to1 perfect matching, but the game is still the same, winning gets you nothing after 10 years, being #1 means nothing as BG already burned that prestige out, same lack of rewards with most farming bags to make chump change.

What is the end game to justify putting wvw in a coma for 5 years and then making a tsunami change to servers into worlds, only to end up playing the same kitten game of ktraining for bags. Going by this weeks matching it looks like we still have obvious T1 type worlds vs T4 type worlds. Competition died a while ago and doesn't look like it'll be brought back in any form. Some people want to blow up servers, some don't, but why are we doing it in the first place if nothing else will change? Anet has said nothing, and we can only speculate we might get tournaments, but is that a good enough reason for the tsunami in the first place?

Maybe they should have just went the ESO campaign route, let players choose their instances to play for a month, you have the gvg campaign, the eotm campaign, the normal wvw campaign, the under 80 campaign to get back to core, and run some monthly wxp bonus events to keep people interested. At least then we could actually separate players into the areas they actually enjoy, and enjoy it with similar players, instead of this stacking mismash we currently have, and will still end up with in the end of this chaos.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Svarty.8019]

4 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

The question is, what's going to be the end goal to all this. They can balance the populations right down to a 1to1to1 perfect matching, but the game is still the same, winning gets you nothing after 10 years, being #1 means nothing as BG already burned that prestige out, same lack of rewards with most farming bags to make chump change.

What is the end game to justify putting wvw in a coma for 5 years and then making a tsunami change to servers into worlds, only to end up playing the same kitten game of ktraining for bags. Going by this weeks matching it looks like we still have obvious T1 type worlds vs T4 type worlds. Competition died a while ago and doesn't look like it'll be brought back in any form. Some people want to blow up servers, some don't, but why are we doing it in the first place if nothing else will change? Anet has said nothing, and we can only speculate we might get tournaments, but is that a good enough reason for the tsunami in the first place?

Maybe they should have just went the ESO campaign route, let players choose their instances to play for a month, you have the gvg campaign, the eotm campaign, the normal wvw campaign, the under 80 campaign to get back to core, and run some monthly wxp bonus events to keep people interested. At least then we could actually separate players into the areas they actually enjoy, and enjoy it with similar players, instead of this stacking mismash we currently have, and will still end up with in the end of this chaos.

You mean you want somebody to provide you with a "Vision" of what they imagine WvW being?

 

HAHAHA, if you ask Ahat, it will tell you that it has a vision, but it's not going to tell anybody what it is.

= there is no vision.

 

There is nothing beyond next month's paycheque.

[Xenesis.6389]

4 minutes ago, Svarty.8019 said:

You mean you want somebody to provide you with a "Vision" of what they imagine WvW being?

 

HAHAHA, if you ask Ahat, it will tell you that it has a vision, but it's not going to tell anybody what it is.

= there is no vision.

 

There is nothing beyond next month's paycheque.

Well too bad for them on that front too, I'm not buying the last expansion until they start developing wvw again, and stop nerfing my classes for their biased boon ball reasons. I don't pve and none of the new elite specs are of interest either.

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, jul.7602 said:

But again. We're falling into this statistical rabbit hole again. The active WvW player population is at least several thousand people. Only a fraction of them even visit the forums, let alone actually post here so there is no 'aggregation' here. We don't have any statistical meaningful sample of opinions that could even remotely qualify as 'the community'.

Right, so?  Like in that case, no one asked for the WvW game mode either.  In fact, no one asked for GW2.
 

[Xenesis.6389]

28 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Right, so?  Like in that case, no one asked for the WvW game mode either.  In fact, no one asked for GW2.
 

Pretty sure there were gw1 people who asked for gw2, much like there's gw2 people asking for gw3 🤭

[Chaba.5410]

8 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Pretty sure there were gw1 people who asked for gw2, much like there's gw2 people asking for gw3 🤭

Muh silent majorities though, man!

[Nugatory.8920]

53 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Muh silent majorities though, man!

Nah, all you need is a couple of posts from individuals to establish a consensus from the community!

[LetoII.3782]

6 minutes ago, Somnambulist.5036 said:

Nah, all you need is a couple of posts from individuals to establish a consensus from the community!

In the 21st century the vocal minority is king.

It is known.

[Chaba.5410]

30 minutes ago, Somnambulist.5036 said:

Nah, all you need is a couple of posts from individuals to establish a consensus from the community!

I wouldn't confuse "consensus" with "asked for".

I refer you to my earlier post:

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Nugatory.8920]

8 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I wouldn't confuse "consensus" with "asked for".

I'm not confusing those two at all. You suggested the "community" asked for the changes and that implies there was a consensus.

 

My reply was snarky though and I apologise for that. 

[roederich.2716]

Making an opinion while the main player driven functions are not even ingame and in no beta to be seen yet shows unfortunately the quality of community we have by now.

this thread has about the same quality like the mechanist and soulbeast clouds around smc and the 15 people chatmander wipe squads.

it was community btw so: anet if you need to take more time in general to make more and better content just do so, we rather wait than just to get something.“

it was community so: „wvw is bad population balance they just stack all on one server and just roll over us and we are also getting spawn camped all the time“

it is community almost on daily basis : „maguuma needs to be dealt with why anet still allows this“.

it is community actually who asked anet to interfere in a sandbox driven population mode. A wvw gamemode about community is so proud that it is a sandbox where the players decide what happens but wants anet to interfere and regulate the player driven sandbox…

[ugrakarma.9416]

8 hours ago, jul.7602 said:

The point is that its a garbage idea, wasting everyone's time. It's no popular, or even initially asked for by the community. Anet is just digging themselves a bigger whole until enough people finally tell them to drop the dumb idea.

its just the most asked thing..

just assume that whenever someone come here complain about "population balance" = asking for world restrutucturing.

latest post asking for this: "Hey anet spilt mag into 3 teams and have their own wvw server"

Edited December 6, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Chaba.5410]

4 hours ago, Somnambulist.5036 said:

I'm not confusing those two at all. You suggested the "community" asked for the changes and that implies there was a consensus.

Including scare quotes for "community" and everything that came after my first sentence shows I wasn't implying that.  Or at least I had hoped readers would understand.  /shrug

It's become a meme to me over the years when players come here to ask for changes and then another set of players complain about changes.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[roederich.2716]

I know even now already what happens if alliances goes full release later.

all the heros who asked anet to interfere with „population balancing“ will complain that the system is interfering too much and people are just randomly assigned…

You asked anet to shuffle the people for balancing and then you complain to be shuffled all the time.

keep in mind if you go problem centered through life and choose to complain instead of taking initiative you will be ruled by someone else on the topic and will have less room to move by yourself.

[Fern Gully.9634]

1 hour ago, roederich.2716 said:

all the heros who asked anet to interfere with „population balancing“ will complain that the system is interfering too much and people are just randomly assigned…

You asked anet to shuffle the people for balancing and then you complain to be shuffled all the time.

keep in mind if you go problem centered through life and choose to complain instead of taking initiative you will be ruled by someone else on the topic and will have less room to move by yourself.

This is a solid summary of present and future. It's the whiney players that run to social media in order to compel devs to make the game easier for them rather than improving themselves; it is a societal issue much larger than Guild Wars. These type of people have everlasting ability to find faults everywhere but with themselves.

[jul.7602]

9 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Right, so?  Like in that case, no one asked for the WvW game mode either.  In fact, no one asked for GW2.
 

Actually, people did ask for gw2 back in the OG gw1 days. The proof was seen in the over 1 million preorders for the original game in gw2.

Edited December 6, 2022 by jul.7602

[Cyninja.2954]

9 minutes ago, jul.7602 said:

Actually, people did ask for gw2 back in the OG gw1 days. The proof was seen in the over 1 million preorders for the original game in gw2.

 

and there was, and to this day is, a minority amount of players who were against GW2 and still hate it to this day. Your point?

[Chaba.5410]

29 minutes ago, jul.7602 said:

Actually, people did ask for gw2 back in the OG gw1 days. The proof was seen in the over 1 million preorders for the original game in gw2.

Development started in 2007 and preorders were not available until early 2012 only months away from launch. What a silly datapoint to claim as proof of some community asking for a whole new game before Anet started development work.

Meanwhile the vocal WvW players who bother to speak up about the flaws with their game mode since 2012 want Anet to do something about it.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[jul.7602]

23 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Development started in 2007 and preorders were not available until early 2012 only months away from launch. What a silly datapoint to claim as proof of some community asking for a whole new game before Anet started development work.

Meanwhile the vocal WvW players who bother to speak up about the flaws with their game mode since 2012 want Anet to do something about it.

Lol. Why even bother trying to explain things. The fact that it got 1 million preorders only would be true if people actually wanted it. You know this thing called market demand?

[b k.1648]

Anyone who would have preferred further GW1 expansions had, by then, had 5 years to realise it wasn't going to happen and GW2 was the best they'd get.

Which, amusingly, has been a shorter period than WvW has been abandoned for.