What I would do for BSW MH Pistol

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

If I were to make a MH pistol for BSW from scratch this is what I would do.

MH pistol would be more support/utility focused, and not melee.

AA:  LI levels of daka daka. 900 range, 0.65/0.45 (pve/comp) coefficient, total activation time of 0.5s including after casts. Each shot is an explosion.
P2: 900 range ground targeted AoE, AoE has a radius of 240. On impact it clears 1 condition on allies in the area, damages foes for 0.5 coefficient, and blinds them for 1s. Leaves a light field that pulses for 2s, each pulse clears one condition from allies and on foes it damages and blinds them again for the same amounts. 4s/8s CD (pve/comp). Each pulse applies to allies Lesser Stim State. Lesser Stim State lasts for 2s and heals for 750/500 (pve/comp) for 1.0 scaling receiving Lesser Stim State again prior to its expiration grants quickness (1s), 5 stacks of might (5s), and vigor (2s). Explosion tag on initial hit and on each pulse.
P3: 900 range ground targeted AoE. Blast Finisher. 8s/10s CD. 240 radius. Allies in the target area gain 2000/500 barrier (pve/comp), 1.0 scaling, enemies in the area are revealed and weakened for 3s. Explosion. damage scaling of 1.25/0.9 (pve/comp)

 

Either in Arms as part of a rework, or changing one of the BSW traits, I would add a trait that inflicts 2s of burning on foes struck by an explosion skill.

Gives something that could be built as a power weapon to daka daka with, geared towards support, or turned into a condi weapon via a trait giving 3 ways to fill our 900 range hole.

Numbers are open for debate, but the intent is lower base, but higher scaling on the healing and barrier so that you're forced into taking the relevant gear to use it well while still overing utility for DPS builds.

[Ferus.3165]

i like it, this would certainly be enough for me to finally unlock bladesworn lol... to bad this will never happen tho

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Ferus.3165 said:

i like it, this would certainly be enough for me to finally unlock bladesworn lol... to bad this will never happen tho

It won't. It's just what I would do if I were to make a MH pistol for BSW given how it is made in order to fill the void left in our 900 range options. If the 4th espec were for expac 4 was confirmed to be support I'd probably change it up to be more offensive.

[Napo.1230]

I don't understand why we didn't get MH+OH like the daggers. Off hand is basically a melee weapon, I feel silly for pre crafting HOPE

[Kodama.6453]

10 minutes ago, Napo.1230 said:

I don't understand why we didn't get MH+OH like the daggers. Off hand is basically a melee weapon, I feel silly for pre crafting HOPE

Bladesworn didn't get both because it simply didn't need it.

Spellbreaker got really minor changes in the class mechanic. The class just get an additional F2 skill, which lets you evade an enemy attack and counter it. Not really that impressive of a class mechanic change, especially since it is also restricting you to T1 bursts. The utility skills are also not really exciting. Simply effects with single time activation and no interaction with class mechanics or something similar.

So spellbreaker still had alot of power budget to spend. Giving it dagger to dual wield for a complete new set of weapon skills was justified here.

Now looking at bladesworn. The spec gets access to an entire new weapon bar (gunsaber), then getting another new weapon bar with the dragon trigger mechanic. It got heavy changes in the profession mechanic. The armament skill type also works on an ammunition system with additional effects by using multiple ammunitions on the same target.

Giving it both MH and OH pistol was simply not justified. The spec already gets tons of new tools, the weapon doesn't need to make up for a lack here. Many elite specs which also have a huge change in the class mechanic and gain alot of new skills through this change just get access to a single handed weapon.

About it being melee.... that is most likely just a side effect of bladesworn being designed as a melee spec. Also it gives the warrior pistol a unique niche as the only truly melee pistol.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Because giving a melee heavy class yet more melee weapons was such a welcome idea...

[Zekent.3652]

18 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Because giving a melee heavy class yet more melee weapons was such a welcome idea...

YOOOOOOOO, A PISTOL!!! sure it's ranged, right?! righ?

[Kodama.6453]

46 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Because giving a melee heavy class yet more melee weapons was such a welcome idea...

I get the disappointment, since people were really expecting a ranged weapon for warrior to get added. But I can see the thought process behind that decision.

One of the main foci of the elite spec have been ammunition skills. The new armaments are ammunition skills, master tier traits all interacting with ammunitions, elite skill used to refill all ammunition skills, etc.

Now let's take a look at warrior's weapon arsenal which include ammunition skills:

• Longbow
• Rifle
• MH Axe

3 core weapons are using ammunition skills, 2 of them are already ranged with a full skill set (since they are 2handed).

Axe is a melee mainhand weapon which uses an ammunition skill.... it doesn't have a core OH weapon to complement it here. That's where pistol came into play... they designed a new OH weapon for bladesworn to get coupled with MH axe, which is a melee weapon. So they also made it melee....

If you wanted to use ranged weapons while getting the benefits of the master tier traits of the spec, then there already were longbow and rifle as options.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I get the disappointment, since people were really expecting a ranged weapon for warrior to get added. But I can see the thought process behind that decision.

One of the main foci of the elite spec have been ammunition skills. The new armaments are ammunition skills, master tier traits all interacting with ammunitions, elite skill used to refill all ammunition skills, etc.

Now let's take a look at warrior's weapon arsenal which include ammunition skills:

• Longbow
• Rifle
• MH Axe

3 core weapons are using ammunition skills, 2 of them are already ranged with a full skill set (since they are 2handed).

Axe is a melee mainhand weapon which uses an ammunition skill.... it doesn't have a core OH weapon to complement it here. That's where pistol came into play... they designed a new OH weapon for bladesworn to get coupled with MH axe, which is a melee weapon. So they also made it melee....

If you wanted to use ranged weapons while getting the benefits of the master tier traits of the spec, then there already were longbow and rifle as options.

Its more that warrior was more in need of a 900 range MH weapon more than another melee offhand.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Its more that warrior was more in need of a 900 range MH weapon more than another melee offhand.

Why does it need one, tho?

From my perspective, a class needs ranged and melee options for power and condition variants (and some support weapon variants sprinkled in). But if these weapon options are one handed or two handed doesn't really matter for me, as long as every one handed weapon has a fitting partner that complements them (so if you, for example, have a condi OH weapon, but all your MH weapons are power, then that's obviously bad).

Revenant, for example, was lacking a ranged condition weapon, so renegade's shortbow got designed to fill that niche. But if there is a need for classes to have a one handed 900 range weapon, does this mean that revenant now also needs to get another ranged condi elite spec in the future giving them pistol?

I don't think there really is a need that every possible combination of all these factors get fulfilled for all classes.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[eXruina.4956]

edit: don't want to get sprayed 💦

Edited December 9, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

edit: don't want to get sprayed 💦

Edited December 9, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

edit: don't want to get sprayed 💦

Edited December 9, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Napo.1230]

All fair points however I still wish we got dual pistols instead of gunsaber  but there's always next expansion for a non melee warrior

[Shagie.7612]

8 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I don't think there really is a need that every possible combination of all these factors get fulfilled for all classes.

ok but counterargument:

dual pistols + gunsaber would look super cool and stylish
or could, anyways. combine mgr: revengeance and devil may cry

who cares about needing it

[Dadnir.5038]

I'm afraid only thief and engineer are allowed to get dual pistol...

Edited December 9, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[Kodama.6453]

14 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I'm afraid only thief and engineer are allowed to get dual pistol...

Dunno, mainhand pistol for mesmer seems like a pretty good possibility?

5 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

edit: don't want to get sprayed 💦

What is going on here, tho? Are you ok, eXruina?

Edited December 9, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[eXruina.4956]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Dunno, mainhand pistol for mesmer seems like a pretty good possibility?

What is going on here, tho? Are you ok, eXruina?

i just didn't feel like posting anymore, so i rescinded my posts.

 

i'm not bringing anything new or productive to the conversation anyway.

 

just redundant rants on how anet's royally kittened up warrior, and how any feedback we push here is futile, if you're curious thats what they were about.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Why does it need one, tho?

Because warrior has lackluster ranged options.

Because warrior does not have a 1H ranged option.

Because warrior does not have a MH ranged option.

Becauue the MH weapon design space isn't crowded like the OH weapon design space.

A MH ranged pistol would let them use Pistol/Warhorn in WvW zergs, would give better options for instanced PvE fights that require more ranged fighting or kiting.

 

[The Boz.2038]

I really love the idea of a ranged MH Pistol for the Bladesword, but a pulsing ranged AoE blind on #2 seems a bit... too much?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I really love the idea of a ranged MH Pistol for the Bladesword, but a pulsing ranged AoE blind on #2 seems a bit... too much?

Maybe? I did set it at a short pulse duration and longer on the CD in competitive. Numbers are of course up for debate. They seem to like giving Warrior light fields as of late, and for BSW and its armaments utility type a 'flash shell' type skill sounded like a thematic skill for a MH pistol while also putting a strong support into it that is balanced around staying within the AoE to maximize the effects. Maybe it would need a 6s/10s CD split in the end, or a 0.5s duration blind instead of 1s. Like I said, the numbers are open for debate.

[Kodama.6453]

4 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Because warrior has lackluster ranged options.

Because warrior does not have a 1H ranged option.

Because warrior does not have a MH ranged option.

Becauue the MH weapon design space isn't crowded like the OH weapon design space.

A MH ranged pistol would let them use Pistol/Warhorn in WvW zergs, would give better options for instanced PvE fights that require more ranged fighting or kiting.

 

• that's why I want to see rifle and longbow improved
• ok, but why does it need one? just for the sake of it?
• that's.... really just repeating the statement from before, isn't it?
• fair enough, but even more needed is a support weapon for warrior no matter it's range threshold
• why can't you use rifle and longbow for the ranged fighting or kiting, tho?

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Maybe? I did set it at a short pulse duration and longer on the CD in competitive. Numbers are of course up for debate. They seem to like giving Warrior light fields as of late, and for BSW and its armaments utility type a 'flash shell' type skill sounded like a thematic skill for a MH pistol while also putting a strong support into it that is balanced around staying within the AoE to maximize the effects. Maybe it would need a 6s/10s CD split in the end, or a 0.5s duration blind instead of 1s. Like I said, the numbers are open for debate.

I think we could do better if we... appropriate some of the OH pistol skills into the MH, and invent (a) new one(s) there. 
Dragon's Roar outright feels better if mated to a ranged MH, so it becoming the new #3 feels natural. The Gunstinger and it's forward-step can stay, as they can fit both a melee and a ranged playstyle, but the ammo reload should be shifted over to the new #2. Then place flash charge as the new #5.
New #2: Tap Rack Bang! - 7s CD, clear Weakness, add 1 ammo to #3, deal 0.88 damage to target. If #3 is full, generate flow instead.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

• that's why I want to see rifle and longbow improved

One does not preclude the other

4 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

• ok, but why does it need one? just for the sake of it?

For the same reason Engineer especs needed to add in melee options. Would you have liked it if Scrapper gave you a scepter, Holo gave you a longbow, and all of a sudden Mechanist gave you shortbow? You have Wrench, so why would you need a melee MH weapon then? It's that same situation but for warrior.

4 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

• that's.... really just repeating the statement from before, isn't it?

Related but separate. Warrior doesn't have a 900 range weapon, which is something that I believe most other classes have.

4 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

• fair enough, but even more needed is a support weapon for warrior no matter it's range threshold

Very true, but a ranged support weapon in the MH, which pistol could have filled, would pair perfectly with warhorn for a complete build.

4 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

• why can't you use rifle and longbow for the ranged fighting or kiting, tho?

Rifle sadly is too weak and is neither condi nor offers a pulsing AoE which limits its gameplay in reality. It has uses sure, but you're always better off having not taken it outside of meme Gunflame montage videos from WvW. Longbow has a slow attack speed, is joked about by the very devs themselves as being a melee weapon. For Condi builds it's fine, but that is because you only have two options for condi builds, sword or longbow. Warrior is too reliant on CCs to land their damage that in Competitive modes you are better off not taking those two weapons most of the time. Have I used them to great effect? Sure have. I've outgunned soulbeasts with both those weapons and face tanked a Lichform Necro spamming AA with the Longbow, but that doesn't make them good, or even optimal.

Anet has pretty much proven that they aren't going to make those weapons better for damage. So a MH support 900 range pistol does two things:

• As a support focused weapon keeps the enforced niche from Anet that warrior ranged DPS should not be high
• offers use from Shield for defense while kiting with a 900 range weapon, while also offering the option for warhorn for sustain while kiting with a 900 range weapon. Neither of which are things that longbow or rifle offer.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I think we could do better if we... appropriate some of the OH pistol skills into the MH, and invent (a) new one(s) there. 
Dragon's Roar outright feels better if mated to a ranged MH, so it becoming the new #3 feels natural. The Gunstinger and it's forward-step can stay, as they can fit both a melee and a ranged playstyle, but the ammo reload should be shifted over to the new #2. Then place flash charge as the new #5.
New #2: Tap Rack Bang! - 7s CD, clear Weakness, add 1 ammo to #3, deal 0.88 damage to target. If #3 is full, generate flow instead.

I did recommend during the beta that they could just move P4 and P5 to P2 and P3 and give it a generic AA to simplify making a MH pistol, but nah Anet seems to like the joke of giving us typical ranged weapons that are melee in reality.