Request alternative suggestions to Power Rifle Mechanist

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

So up until the last patch I was really enjoying Power Rifle Mechanist, but the last one has basically pushed it into a place where it is less fun and less effective, so I'm looking for alternatives.  So I specifically hoping to receive suggestions from people who also liked the old mech, and have found something that they also like (read - this is not intended as a debate thread, or requesting suggestions to learn classes that do not feel like the old mech 🙂 ).

 

The things I liked about the old mech:

 

1) Damage was "good enough" for pretty much all content.

2) Shift signet teleport.

3) Didn't need to focus on rotations too heavily, could focus on the actual game, and play reactively (I want to look at the world, not constantly keeping my eyes on my cooldowns).

4) Ranged.

5)  Nice CC.

6) Decent "cleave" - not sure what to call it for ranged.

 

I've tried Virtuoso because of (2) and (4) primarily, but it feels like a lot of looking at skill bar still to check when things are off cooldown - if that's worth persisting with, happy to continue there.

 

So yeah, I know I'm not the only one who was really enjoying the "feel" of mechanist a couple of months back, has anyone found something that they similarly enjoy?

[Infusion.7149]

You can probably play the meta power virtuoso (Dagger+sword , second weaponset is Greatsword). It takes more skill usage but is rather intuitive. Autoattack is about half that of mechanist with a rifle so just be aware of that.You can slot a blink for teleport with 1200 range but there isn't a good skip for Uncategorized fractal (rifle on engineer is good there) ; Underground Facility's rifle skip was removed as far as I remember. In addition, you can be easily top CC with a mesmer using Signet of Humility and the F3 skill (Bladesong Dissonance) when you can't damage the target. The auto on dagger mainhand hits 5 targets so that shouldn't be an issue and bladecall hits 5 and is a fan attack on ~5s base cooldown.

You could also play condi virtuoso if you want an "easy build" but that has a ramp up, which invalidates most of the advantage of power mechanist.

edit: Power soulbeast is also mostly ranged but doesn't have a teleport (axe mainhand with longbow as a swap). CC is decent if you run Rock Gazelle which is why people used to run the part melee variant in fractals.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

So up until the last patch I was really enjoying Power Rifle Mechanist, but the last one has basically pushed it into a place where it is less fun and less effective, so I'm looking for alternatives.  So I specifically hoping to receive suggestions from people who also liked the old mech, and have found something that they also like (read - this is not intended as a debate thread, or requesting suggestions to learn classes that do not feel like the old mech 🙂 ).

 

The things I liked about the old mech:

 

1) Damage was "good enough" for pretty much all content.

2) Shift signet teleport.

3) Didn't need to focus on rotations too heavily, could focus on the actual game, and play reactively (I want to look at the world, not constantly keeping my eyes on my cooldowns).

4) Ranged.

5)  Nice CC.

6) Decent "cleave" - not sure what to call it for ranged.

 

I've tried Virtuoso because of (2) and (4) primarily, but it feels like a lot of looking at skill bar still to check when things are off cooldown - if that's worth persisting with, happy to continue there.

 

So yeah, I know I'm not the only one who was really enjoying the "feel" of mechanist a couple of months back, has anyone found something that they similarly enjoy?

Rifle mech still hits all 6 of your points, but shortbow renegade is also a nice option.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Rifle mech still hits all 6 of your points, but shortbow renegade is also a nice option.

Yeah, I know mech is still viable, it has just tipped below the bar for me by being just a bit less fun and a bit less strong (it feels sluggish, I guess would be the word).

 

Shortbow renegade is interesting. I've been running that in WvW for ages (mostly out of habit), is that the condi build?

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Yeah, I know mech is still viable, it has just tipped below the bar for me by being just a bit less fun and a bit less strong (it feels sluggish, I guess would be the word).

 

Shortbow renegade is interesting. I've been running that in WvW for ages (mostly out of habit), is that the condi build?

SB on renegade is usually condi but its power coefficients are sufficient to make a power version effective for much of the game's content as well. 

[Infusion.7149]

The caveat there is that shortbow renegade ,unless you camp the Kalla legend (which is not how you play it normally), requires at least some time in melee to be effective. That is especially true for power versions as the only skill you would be using on the legends is the upkeep and the Citadel Bombardment (depends on hitbox probably).

Recall the "rotation" from dT for power ren includes sword skills almost exclusively:
https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/power-renegade/

I think virtuoso or soulbeast would be a better fit for that reason. If you decide to run a full rotation it is not that large a leap. The goal of a low intensity build should not simply being lazy but also to have a solid foundation for a full build should you choose to go that route.

[Bish.8627]

7 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

So up until the last patch I was really enjoying Power Rifle Mechanist, but the last one has basically pushed it into a place where it is less fun and less effective, so I'm looking for alternatives.  So I specifically hoping to receive suggestions from people who also liked the old mech, and have found something that they also like (read - this is not intended as a debate thread, or requesting suggestions to learn classes that do not feel like the old mech 🙂 ).

 

The things I liked about the old mech:

 

1) Damage was "good enough" for pretty much all content.

2) Shift signet teleport.

3) Didn't need to focus on rotations too heavily, could focus on the actual game, and play reactively (I want to look at the world, not constantly keeping my eyes on my cooldowns).

4) Ranged.

5)  Nice CC.

6) Decent "cleave" - not sure what to call it for ranged.

 

I've tried Virtuoso because of (2) and (4) primarily, but it feels like a lot of looking at skill bar still to check when things are off cooldown - if that's worth persisting with, happy to continue there.

 

So yeah, I know I'm not the only one who was really enjoying the "feel" of mechanist a couple of months back, has anyone found something that they similarly enjoy?

I think you are after a low intensity build right? I went back to Rev when it got a second dodge on Vindicator, its not as low intensity or ranged but it clicks with me, and sometimes thats what you need. I would go on youtube and search low intensity guild wars 2 builds, have a look at some of the newer vids, there are a few compilations of builds that do good damage but are more streamlined to play. Try a few out if you can.

[Sindust.7059]

You need to define what you consider to be "ranged", because everyone loses significant amount of damage the farther they are. And that includes mechanist. So for now I will use my definition, which is "at least 20k DPS at 900 range". And I will also use my definition of "good enough damage" as 28k single target on small hitbox under ideal circumstances (so can be melee, flanking or anything else that helps).

 

Option 1: Soulbeast (power or condi).

My personal choice for the time being until they fix mech. It can be played both as power or condi at 900 range, and the power variant in melee does much better than power mech. For power go with axe/warhorn+axe/axe or axe/axe+longbow (though I prefer the former, because there are fewer skills for which I have to stop moving). For condi go shortbow. The power rotation is comparable to virtuoso in complexity. The condi rotation with shortbow is much simpler though. You just press anything that's off cooldown, and you're good. Unless you played with just auto-attacks on the power mech, condi shortbow soulbeast isn't any more complicated than mech. The only thing in your list that you would be missing is the shift signet. But you can slot dolyak stance for CC break which will also give you stability. That's usually enough for me. If you play with beastmastery traitline, you will also have almost as much passive self-healing as on mechanist, and you will keep +30% movement speed.

 

Option 2: Tempest (condi only).

To keep the rotation simple and ranged use scepter+warhorn while camping fire attunement.

The big advantage that it has over most other ranged builds is that its ranged attacks don't count as projectiles, meaning projectile reflects have no effect on you. So for example doing fractal 98 CM is less annoying with it than with mechanist. I also really appreciated this fact when I tried to solo the north meta pre-events on the Sandswept Isles. Those are very annoying to do with rifle mech or soulbeast.

The rotation is the same as with shortbow soulbeast (i.e. whack-a-mole), and the resulting dps is the same too (28-30k).

Another big advantage is that there is a trait that converts toughness to condition damage, so if you want to use celestial gear (which I always do when doing open world content), it's much less of a dps loss than most other specs.

To replicate all the effects of shift signet you would need to use 2 skills (Signet of Air for CC break and movement speed + Lightning Flash for the teleport), but it is possible.

What this build lacks in passive healing you can also make up for with active healing. If you switch to water attunement you get warhorn 4 and 5 as well as the overload skill that heal for a massive amount, and you can summon the elemental with elite skill when in water attunement which gives you yet another massive heal on a pretty short cooldown. It would also allow you to do some off-healing without changing your build, which can come in very handy when doing some meta events undermanned.

And if you do camp fire attunement to keep things easy, you can adjust your build to it and run with runes of Balthazar which will allow you to run more grieving gear pieces which in turn allows you to improve your power damage without giving up condi damage, and will also help you compensate for the low HP via the extra 10% HP from the 6p bonus.

And another fun thing about this build is that you can run with a literal army of pets if you want to (up to 6 by using just 2 skills). And you can also play alac dps with it, just like mech, though the rotation for that would be quite a bit more complex.

 

Option 3: Virtuoso (power or condi).

I would also write a lot about virtuoso here, but you already tried that, so I'll save it. The TL;DR is that it's really the only viable option for 1200 range, because rifle deadeye sucks in most content, and every other build does significantly less damage at this range.

 

Other options that check most of your boxes, but I either don't have much experience with or personally don't like for various reasons:

1. Rifle deadeye. Lacks cleave and managing the mark is annoying.

2. Shortbow renegade. I find it annoying because I'm frequently getting "no path to target" errors even when trying to cast skills on flat ground, and weapon skills not going off when I'm not looking straight at the target. Also has no teleport, but does have a medium range (600) leap in demon stance.

3. Condi scourge. I have no experience with this one, but on paper it checks all the boxes.

4. Longbow dragonhunter. I don't like it for the same reason I don't like longbow soulbeast: skills rooting me in place. Doesn't exactly have a teleport, but it does have a leap that is almost identical to rifle 5 on engi in terms of its range and effects.

 

I think that's about it with the ranged options that do "good enough" damage in this game.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Sindust.7059

[Infusion.7149]

@Sindust:

Scourge is a good choice for high tier fractals due to boon corrupt and random incoming conditions which convert to boons but not great for general openworld style content. It has poor mobility and slow ramp time on condi beyond the initial burning from demonic lore; sand shades required for AoE (not autos) don't move but can be replaced quickly. This is most apparent on things that need fast cleave such as DRMs or openworld if the point is auto attacking things melts targets. In your example of 98CM it was common for players to swap to power reaper on the Siax split if they were cutting it close with scourge.

The places where scourge shines tend to be the highest condition pressure fights such as on Siren's reef fractal where the push on the ship ignores stability. Massive amounts of sand shade cleave on a stationary area (the ship) is pretty much the best scenario for scourges. The other places scourge excels are in Cold War strike when there is frigid footfalls , Wing 2 Matthias raid boss (incoming condi is free boons and barriers help), Wing 5 Soulless Horror (massive amounts of condi) , and the Xunlai Jade Junkyard strike (massive condi incoming as well as many adds). The commonly requested location is on QtP (Qadim the Peerless in Wing 7) as a pylon kiter, despite sand swell having a shorter range than deadeye's 1200 range shadowstep. Due to Epidemic nerfs it has had a small decline in wing 5 Soulless Horror but much more so on Wing 4 Mursaat Overseer.

The key thing to remember with scourge is sand shade upkeep and Devouring Darkness (scepter 3) AoE along with Desert Shroud , blood is power  / epidemic.

If you're looking at condi soulbeast specifically for fractals I would go for scourge instead because it is non-projectile. This makes it less annoying on Solid Ocean Fractal (the Jade Collosus mob reflects) but also the last phase of Sunqua in light mode (not Dark). Just the other day I was helping someone out with T4 Volcanic with terrible instabilities (think was No Pain No Gain and Last Laugh) and we duoed the boss instead of waiting : in a normal scenario you burst the lava elemental adds down or reflect them but with scourges you cleave everything out with sand shades and convert burning to aegis. Due to agony not affecting barrier, scourge is superior in fractals to condi soulbeast at the very least in terms of sustain in DPS gear.

For tempest if you don't camp fire, scepter still has some projectiles such as water auto (zero cleave too), water trident, earth auto & hurl (rock barrier flip skill). Phoenix is a projectile but unblockable. Most importantly lightning orb is projectile on warhorn.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Infusion.7149
add note on epidemic

[Kuma.1503]

I've always been a power scrapper enjoyer. 

You can run hammer or rifle depending on your needs.

Hammer is more damage and offers built-in defense. Rifle is glassier with a bit less damage, but offers range, AoE might gen, and a very good immobilize. 

 

You can do very good damage by mostly hitting buttons as they come up (prioritizing the harder hitting skills first). Just stick to the following and you'll be solid:

• Hit hammer 5 off CD
• Hit Shredder Gyro and Grenade Barrage off CD
• Hit Hammer 2 off CD
• Swap to nades and press 2 every time you hit hammer 2
• If Freeze grenade and poison grenade are up, hit those too

Bonus tips

• If you need CC, you can drop Shredder Gyro toolbelt, and hit hammer 3  inside the field for 2 daze finishers. 
• Spam nades or mortars if you need ranged filler. 
• You can throw them behind you, so you can literally keep 100% uptime while doing mechanics with your back turned to the boss
• Hammer 3 is an extra evade. You can use it as an extra dodge while also doing DPS
• Hammer 4 is an on demand block. You can use it to ignore certain mechanics while still doing DPS.

If running rifle

• Hit Shredder Gyro and Nade Barrage off CD
• Hit Rifle 5 off CD
• Hit Rifle 2 off CD
• Swap to nades and press 2 every time you hit rifle 2
• If freeze grenade and poison grenade are up, hit those too. 

Bonus Tips

• Net shot is an broken immobilize. Very long duration on a low CD. Very nice on fights like Gorseval. 
• I personally save Overcharge shot for CC. But you can hit it use it for extra damage if you don't need CC. 
• Don't be that guy and Overcharge shot the mobs after your mesmer or firebrand stacked them together.  

Your elite slot and other utility slot are flexible.

Elixir X is for CC. Mortar kit gives fields to blast and a 1200 range filler option. Sneak Gyro for skips. Supply crate if you're lazy. 

Utility slot can be throw mine for damage, extra cc, and boon rip. Purge gyro for cleanse, blast gyro for extra cc, might gen, and some extra dps. bulwark gyro for stab and minor team support (don't one shot yourself with this). 

Heal skill is also flexible. Heal Turret gives a bit of group healing and cleansing plus a water field. 

Med Kit has a very low cooldown cleanse and some nice boons. Bit of healing too, you can top allies up during downtime, for example, while Mai Trin (Fractal Boss) is invulnerable and you're waiting for the bomb.  

AED gives extra CC with the toolbelt, and the heal can be used to cheese mechanics like Amalgamate slap. Then you can function gyro all of your downstate buddies and feel like a god. 

 

You also provide superspeed to your party which lets everyone move at full Out of Combat movespeed while in combat. This is very underrated. It makes doing mechanics so much easier. 

 

Convert to the ways of the bonk. 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Sindust.7059]

44 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If you're looking at condi soulbeast specifically for fractals I would go for scourge instead because it is non-projectile

As far as I know power scourge isn't a thing, and reaper is exclusively melee. And just like OP I have a thing for ranged builds. So if I have to switch to power (for example for 99 CM), I'm better off playing ranger.

It does sound like scourge is overall better than tempest though. I actually tried scourge before, but for some reason it didn't click with me, while tempest did. I don't know why. Maybe I'm just not into the whole death aesthetic.

[Sindust.7059]

21 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

AED gives extra CC with the toolbelt, and the heal can be used to cheese mechanics like Amalgamate slap. Then you can function gyro all of your downstate buddies and feel like a god.

And the people will actually know that you're a god unlike with elementalist's rebound, where nobody even goes down, but then also nobody knows that you just saved them. 😆

[Sobx.1758]

14 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

1) Damage was "good enough" for pretty much all content.

2) Shift signet teleport.

3) Didn't need to focus on rotations too heavily, could focus on the actual game, and play reactively (I want to look at the world, not constantly keeping my eyes on my cooldowns).

4) Ranged.

5)  Nice CC.

6) Decent "cleave" - not sure what to call it for ranged.

All of these still easly apply to current mechanist, it's just not as broken as it was with next to no input. All of these except for shift signet apply to rifle scrapper too.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Corvolupo.5708]

The thing Is, you can do everything you were doing pre patch with mech, It Is Just not fun to play now, so, as suggested above, join the bonk side, try scrapper rifle/Hammer.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

Thanks for the really detailed and helpful responses, much appreciated!  I'll experiment with the suggestions given 🙂

 

8 hours ago, Bish.8627 said:

I think you are after a low intensity build right? I went back to Rev when it got a second dodge on Vindicator, its not as low intensity or ranged but it clicks with me, and sometimes thats what you need. I would go on youtube and search low intensity guild wars 2 builds, have a look at some of the newer vids, there are a few compilations of builds that do good damage but are more streamlined to play. Try a few out if you can.

 

So this is a bit of a weird question to answer, but I hope others will get it and it'll explain what I'm looking for.  I don't have an issue with complexity, or inputs per minute, but I don't enjoy worrying about cooldowns or looking at my skill bar.  What I liked about Mech was that it made the game feel like action games, where the emphasis was more on reacting to the boss and environment.  LI builds do tend to offer something a bit like this, but what I'm looking for isn't about "Press less buttons" so much as it's about "Pressing the right buttons in context, rather than the same buttons in order".

 

Maybe a good example of this is the utility skills on Power Mech.  I could run a teleport (Shift Signet), a CC (Force Signet), and then flexibly take more CC, Boon Strip, or a kit in the other slot.  Because they weren't just extra DPS in a rotation, they could be used contextually (i.e. in a way that I find more fun).

 

So in summary, "Yes, but not exactly".  LI builds tend to overlap somewhat with what I enjoy (and I think probably a lot of players, given how popular mech was), but I'm not specifically looking for something where the inputs are low (e.g. if there was a specific fast combo that you use in certain circumstances, that's cool, but I don't want to be doing that on repeat with my entire skill bar every fight).  Similarly, hopping between weapons based on context is fun (for me), but doing it just as part of a memorised rotation isn't.

 

As another way of saying it.  I like God of War/Arkham style combat (at whatever difficulty setting), but don't particularly like learning combo strings in fighting games.

[shion.2084]

Run scrapper.  Blast gyro, shredder gyro, nades, supply crate hammer.   When engaging kick off blast and shredder, use hammer stuff, throw in nades.   Try to jump in your lightening field for extra stun…

[Gendalfs.7521]

Thanks OP for this forum post as Im at the same position as you. I liked Mechanic for all the 6 points you mentioned.

I tried to run scrapper and its OK, but with hammer its not ranged.

Ill try virtuoso.

Is virtuoso viable in all game modes?

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

I tried to run scrapper and its OK, but with hammer its not ranged.

You can use rifle on scrapper and you can provide yourself with quickness.

3 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Is virtuoso viable in all game modes?

Yes

Edited December 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Gendalfs.7521]

Rifle is bad and no one knows how/if theyll fix it

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Rifle is bad and no one knows how/if theyll fix it

That depends on the content and situation you want to be using it in.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758