Sharpening Stone 30s In All Modes

[Mell.4873]

A final nail in the coffin is that the second highest DPS build in the game an Untamed that has Sharpening Stones as one of its primary damaging skills. How much higher would that benchmark be if it lost 6 seconds off its cooldown. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Abyssisis.3971]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

A final nail in the coffin is that the second highest DPS build in the game an Untamed that has Sharpening Stones as one of its primary damaging skills. How much higher would that benchmark be if it lost 6 seconds off its cooldown. 

There are more game modes than PVfkingE. Nerfing pvp/wvw builds for the sake of raid benchmarks is kitten poor balancing on anet’s part.

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

There are more game modes than PVfkingE. Nerfing pvp/wvw builds for the sake of raid benchmarks is kitten poor balancing on anet’s part.

And like I have been saying no one used this in PvP except an off Meta DPS/Roaming WvW Druid.

I really don't see any other reason to take it. 

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

And like I have been saying no one used this in PvP except an off Meta DPS/Roaming WvW Druid.

I really don't see any other reason to take it. 

So 1 pvp/wvw build gets nerfed vs how many raid builds that actually benefit from this change?

0 raid builds benefit or even change from splitting cool-downs from WK. The skills they applied the cool-downs to aren’t even taken in the raid meta in the first place nor will they be taken. It all boils down to anet making this change to simply add patch notes to the ranger section.

 

[Mell.4873]

49 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

So 1 pvp/wvw build gets nerfed vs how many raid builds that actually benefit from this change?

0 raid builds benefit or even change from splitting cool-downs from WK. The skills they applied the cool-downs to aren’t even taken in the raid meta in the first place nor will they be taken. It all boils down to anet making this change to simply add patch notes to the ranger section.

 

Yeah so why are people complaining and saying its a nerf? 

[Abyssisis.3971]

16 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah so why are people complaining and saying it’s a nerf? 

Oh I don’t know, it must have something to do with the 6 seconds increase in cooldown for sharpening stone for playing the exact same build they were prior to this stupid change. 🤦‍♂️

[Mell.4873]

12 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Oh I don’t know, it must have something to do with the 6 seconds increase in cooldown for sharpening stone for playing the exact same build they were prior to this stupid change. 🤦‍♂️

But no one traited Survival skills?????????

I feel like we are going in circles, the one exception was that Druid build which I could agree with. Again, it's just 6 seconds. It's not like a WvW clash is going to last longer than 24 seconds, most are in and out.

[Abyssisis.3971]

21 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

But no one traited Survival skills?????????

I feel like we are going in circles, the one exception was that Druid build which I could agree with. Again, it's just 6 seconds. It's not like a WvW clash is going to last longer than 24 seconds, most are in and out.

In pvp/wvw WK is taken, it’s only in pve it’s not taken. 

[Mell.4873]

21 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

In pvp/wvw WK is taken, it’s only in pve it’s not taken. 

But what about Sharpening Stone? Point me to a sPvP/WvW that has it slotted. 

[Abyssisis.3971]

51 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

But what about Sharpening Stone? Point me to a sPvP/WvW that has it slotted. 

Bleed druid. 🤔

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Bleed druid. 🤔

Hmmm bleed Druid....
https://imgur.com/vFOcLzc

I searched for over an hour, and I found one build. 🙂 
GW2 - Celestial Druid Roaming Build - GuildJen

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Hmmm bleed Druid....
https://imgur.com/vFOcLzc

I searched for over an hour, and I found one build. 🙂 
GW2 - Celestial Druid Roaming Build - GuildJen

Multiple ranger mains have said the same thing as I have, WK changes don’t change anything for pve, but it’s a nerf for pvp/wvw modes. So are you finally going to understand or continue arguing for increase post counts?

[Sandzibar.5134]

Im more annoyed about Signet of Hunt going to 20CD in all modes.. bar the one that really needs it.

WvW has so much projectile hate and block now that you might as well leave all projectile weapons at the door.

 

This has the ANET "Boonball Guard main" Dev written all over it as a design decision.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

19 hours ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Im more annoyed about Signet of Hunt going to 20CD in all modes.. bar the one that really needs it.

WvW has so much projectile hate and block now that you might as well leave all projectile weapons at the door.

 

This has the ANET "Boonball Guard main" Dev written all over it as a design decision.

Basically.  They don't want too many people dying to LB ranger so we can continue to have complaint threads about bunkers and thieves.

Just like Signet of Renewal continuing to be useless in WvW as it just sucks the conditions from everything around the pet and yields nothing for the actual Ranger.  

I haven't really even tested the Empathic Bond changes because of this, as the F2s for me are also bugged to where they must be spammed.  So I don't know if the 2 conditions have a range to be within or not--I just keep using WK.  

 

On 2/18/2023 at 12:09 AM, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Multiple ranger mains have said the same thing as I have, WK changes don’t change anything for pve, but it’s a nerf for pvp/wvw modes. So are you finally going to understand or continue arguing for increase post counts?

Agreed; they are being purposefully obtuse at this point.  

Edited February 19, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Zyreva.1078]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:09 AM, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Multiple ranger mains have said the same thing as I have, WK changes don’t change anything for pve, but it’s a nerf for pvp/wvw modes. So are you finally going to understand or continue arguing for increase post counts?

*a nerf to a very specific build, that wasn't very good to begin with. Overall WS got buffed, don't forget that. Not that those buffs or nerfs where needed, none of those changes make any sense or improve balance, but still, it's not all doom for ranger. At least for slb and druid. Rip untamed in PvP.

Note regarding bleed druid: In PvP a variety of condis is better than focusing on just one, and since this build has much bleed anyway, adding more of it isn't that valuable, even more so when we are talking about the weakest condi in the game. So maybe you should take the nerfs as incentive to look for better alternatives 😉

Edited February 19, 2023 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Zaret.1450]

23 hours ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Im more annoyed about Signet of Hunt going to 20CD in all modes.. bar the one that really needs it.

WvW has so much projectile hate and block now that you might as well leave all projectile weapons at the door.

 

This has the ANET "Boonball Guard main" Dev written all over it as a design decision.

Well, mantras got nerfed hard last patch, and boon corruption/rip is decently comon, with necros, mesmer, and spellbreaker.

Although its true that the project reflect and block are everywere, maybe a cap like, block 20 projectiles or 30 and then the bubble explodes or something.

As for ranger, ill say this, if untamed got ambushes slotted on the 2 skill and be like hammer, they stay as long as youre unleashed, untamed could perfectly become a decent boon ripper with that, with a ton of inmobs and a pet that can survive(PET REWORK PLEASE) and it could be a good option.

 

Also remember that tempest have magnetic aura, nothing we can do about it, so making bubbles /walls a bit worse isnt the end of the world

[Zaret.1450]

52 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

*a nerf to a very specific build, that wasn't very good to begin with. Overall WS got buffed, don't forget that. Not that those buffs or nerfs where needed, none of those changes make any sense or improve balance, but still, it's not all doom for ranger. At least for slb and druid. Rip untamed in PvP.

Note regarding bleed druid: In PvP a variety of condis is better than focusing on just one, and since this build has much bleed anyway, adding more of it isn't that valuable, even more so when we are talking about the weakest condi in the game. So maybe you should take the nerfs as incentive to look for better alternatives 😉

I have a question on the changes, now WK is... useless, or almost, right? i mean you have a trait that cleanses more with beast skills and pet swap right? as for fury i think there are better sources, so maybe WK could be changed later on right?

[Zyreva.1078]

9 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

I have a question on the changes, now WK is... useless, or almost, right? i mean you have a trait that cleanses more with beast skills and pet swap right? as for fury i think there are better sources, so maybe WK could be changed later on right?

I wouldn't say it is useless, because EB still has the issue of being reliant on pets, that tend to be very unresponsive (or dead), especially in WvW. So for builds that run a bunch of survival skills anyway WK is still ok.

I still don't get what the "let's just randomly remove cd reduction from some traits for no apparent reason" changes are supposed to achieve, and don't think it was a good thing, but realistically speaking the impact for ranger is rather low.

[Beddo.1907]

I wouldn't be surprised if PvE version wasn't touched, so the Untamed can't get even more dps from FF. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Beddo.1907

[Zyreva.1078]

53 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if PvE version wasn't touched, so the Untamed can't get even more dps from FF. 

Condi/Hybrid slb uses Sharpening Stone too and is most likely the more commonly played build, so blaming FF untamed - which doesn't even benefit that much from baseline cd reductions - is quite far fetched. Also they can always tone down FF Untamed's dps, if they deem it too high, without killing this or other builds.

They likely didn't think much about SS, considering it never got mentioned when they talked about the balance changes.

Edited February 19, 2023 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Mell.4873]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:09 PM, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Multiple ranger mains have said the same thing as I have, WK changes don’t change anything for pve, but it’s a nerf for pvp/wvw modes. So are you finally going to understand or continue arguing for increase post counts?

Find me a build that uses Sharpening Stone. I mean I'm the only one who turned up any evidence it's being used in PvP and its a bit a troll build since its from Jen

Edited February 20, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Abyssisis.3971]

4 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Find me a build that uses Sharpening Stone. I mean I'm the only one who turned up any evidence it's being used in PvP and its a bit a troll build since its from Jen

Took you over an hour right? Took me 2 seconds…

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAUZlVUw8ybf9Nm02ZoWePtt6UGHyYsH-zVZYRRE6jLJYIjCOwjpABRkKgKlIZKE7VEJ5TRA2DvFzc2AA-w

[Gotejjeken.1267]

21 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Note regarding bleed druid: In PvP a variety of condis is better than focusing on just one, and since this build has much bleed anyway, adding more of it isn't that valuable, even more so when we are talking about the weakest condi in the game. So maybe you should take the nerfs as incentive to look for better alternatives 😉

Not really, sharpening stone is the literal 'burst' to bleed druid.  Or was--I mean, still can do it but have to be far more careful now due to the CD penalty. 

I'm not super surprised people are confused at this though because bleed/immob has been higher skill for a while now.  They've nerfed it many times and now must rely on knowing your pet / CC combos and staff to really even be effective. 

I just hate how some act like it never was a thing though when over time it's been complained about fiercely.  

Edited February 20, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Zyreva.1078]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Not really, sharpening stone is the literal 'burst' to bleed druid.  Or was--I mean, still can do it but have to be far more careful now due to the CD penalty. 

I'm not super surprised people are confused at this though because bleed/immob has been higher skill for a while now.  They've nerfed it many times and now must rely on knowing your pet / CC combos and staff to really even be effective. 

I just hate how some act like it never was a thing though when over time it's been complained about fiercely.  

Flame Trap is just as "bursty" (potentially more bursty even if you combo it), has half of the cd and the dmg is more likely to "stick" because it provides an extra condi that needs to be cleansed. Bleeding is usually the first condi to get cleansed vs condi druid, due to the constant reapplication from AC, sb and pets.

Edited February 20, 2023 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Flame Trap is just as "bursty" (potentially more bursty even if you combo it), has half of the cd and the dmg is more likely to "stick" because it provides an extra condi that needs to be cleansed. Bleeding is usually the first condi to get cleansed vs condi druid, due to the constant reapplication from AC, sb and pets.

 

Discussion is opening to condi druid now and not bleed druid, these are two very different things.  As you simply don't take traps on bleed druid (outside of potentially healing spring), it's too wide of a focus to be effective.  

I'm also not just randomly talking here, I've roamed with pure bleed druid over the past two years in WvW in every tier, played it in 2v2/3v3 PvP seasons, and have gone top 250 this last season with it.