more sources of protection for warrior

[eXruina.4956]

despite the rework to thick skin, warrior is still heavily lagging behind other professions in terms of protection sources and uptime.

 

not only that but other classes have traits that allow them to mitigate condition damage with protection, or increase the effectiveness of protection, doubling on the benefits.

 

while some others have so much protection on demand through traits that they can upkeep almost permanent protection uptime without even investing in boon duration.

 

stop short changing warrior, this is one of the changes that has been long overdue, give us more sources of protection.

Edited March 27, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

A Defense/Disc/Spellbreaker should be able to perma upkeep protection if they can get FC off with Runes of Durability. Besides, you're going to run into the effective HP lemmings that think warrior's base stats are better than protection uptime or having numerous evades (they're wrong).

FWIW, what warrior needs is one of those two innate sources of protection to be AoE and another AoE source on a banner.

[eXruina.4956]

On 3/27/2023 at 7:45 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

A Defense/Disc/Spellbreaker should be able to perma upkeep protection if they can get FC off with Runes of Durability.

Nope, edit: just 13.8 seconds out of 20 seconds, with 2 procs of Full Counter, Heal(Mending without cdr) with Thick Skin, and proc of the Durability Rune 6.

 

On Spellbreaker.

 

This is without additional boon duration aside from 15% from Rune of Durability.

 

and that is only if you trait into Guard Counter sacrificing either Pure Strike or No Escape, which in the opinion of many good warriors i asked, find to be more priority.

 

While other classes can vomit out Protection with impunity, some sacrificing nothing, not even needing to stat for boon duration for permanent uptime.

 

You also need to hit with Full Counter to proc Guard Counter unlike in the pas, which can miss, be dodged, avoided by walking out of range, etc..

 

Other classes are guaranteed to proc their Protection on skill use, or trait trigger.

 

Some with the  dual ability to mitigate Condition Damage.

Edited April 4, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You still need boon duration for it. Besides 16/20 upkeep is still a good upkeep.

[eXruina.4956]

On 3/27/2023 at 11:39 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You still need boon duration for it. Besides 16/20 upkeep is still a good upkeep.

yes edit: 13.8/20 is a pretty good upkeep, on Spellbreaker.

 

But unlike other classes, Protection in abundance built into their core kits, Protection on dodge, Protection on stealth, passive proc that grants Protection and even applies Weakness, active skills and class mechanics list goes on.

 

Warrior got the very short end of the stick here, only getting the Thick Skin rework last October, a measly 3s on one source, every 20s on average, because you can't afford to take STR when taking an elite spec, that's if you take Mending, otherwise its every 30s.

 

So please sir, can we have some more Protection. ^~^

Edited April 4, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[Infusion.7149]

I actually thought banner of defense would have applied protection when they rewqrked banners, but it applies aegis , regen, and barrier.

I don't really see the need for full uptime (personal) protection on warrior however. Warrior already has plenty of defensive abilities with high heal amounts and the point is using weakness , block, and CC to mitigate damage.

Off the top of my head the classes that "vomit out" protection as you claim are : firebrand in PVE with mantra of solace (else you need hammer or Hold the Line with mace+shield), druid with stone spirit which is not run in competitive modes, tempest has protection for others from Aftershock and Sand Squall unless running Arcane for protection on swap to earth, renegade with all for one which is not really a competitive mode build.

Engineer (scrapper/mech) relies on shield for protection, specter has single target protection on a skill that rarely is used (Shadow Sap), chrono has protection on shield only while 1 dodge mirage in competitive has it on mirage cloak when traited, necro has spectral ring and spectral armor (only for necro).

[Edu.6984]

I'm ok with giving more protection to warrior, but the tradeoff should be reduce warrior base hp. Warrior has 8k more hp than guardian and ele, I think that is more than a fair compensation for having less boons. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

^ Told you they would show up.

[Hotride.2187]

Give more protection to berserker, make it more able to wade in a team fight and not drop in 2 seconds. Dont make it stay at range with rifle like its a cripple deadeye.

Spb and bladesworn dont need much protection. Spb has evades and blocks, and kites to survive. Bladesworn is just bladesworn, no redeeming qualities to make it interesting to fight. High protection uptime on it will be as bad as the shout spam was.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I think barrier on bursts, scaling based on adrenaline, is the better answer in the end.

I'd revamp soldier's comfort for it, remove it's CD, increase scaling, decrease base amount, and make it on use rather than on hit.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

Protection would be nice... but my core warrior heals so much from all the might he constantly applies, that I find I can face-tank most things w/o worry so long as I continue to attack... add in some dodging and banner of defense when things get dicey and I'm pretty happy with his survivability.  Granted, other builds I've tried were more squishy, so I def understand the desire.  What I'd love is a return of the Retaliation boon, or something like it.

 

~EpWa

[Shinja.3451]

I mentioned it many times in the game and in the Spanish forum clarifying that, protection is directly 50% more health and HEALING, something that anet seems to ignore, even more taking into account what they already mentioned in this forum, the time of protection activity increased absurdly, before in specific builds it was 30%, now there are builds that directly have 100% or practically whenever they need it.

In terms of base health and healing/survivability, the warrior got worse in absurd ways while anet improved this in other professions in equally absurd ways, forgetting something they are doing right now, improving party play, it's kind of silly because they themselves were those who made such a mess, adding base builds that are capable of accumulating absurd times of blessings, when before the blessings to have 100% activity required everyone's collaboration, something that should be like that again, no matter how much it hurts to those raid and pve elitists, it was always a bad design, it was always against the original design of the game and it was never fun to vomit blessings that for some reason, despite early complaints about this, anet kept doing it the same way.

I would only add group protection to the defense banner and another personal one that already exists, call me crazy, but the rest of the professions have serious balance problems, many of their abilities do a thousand things and it seems that the warrior is heading towards it, making it even more disastrous and incomprehensible the balance of the game. such incomprehensible as the translation of this by google XD

[Lucentfir.7430]

Shield Master should grant like 3s of protection on shield skill use, or blocking attacks grant protection, since they did rip away the Cooldown reduction and might gain synergy for MMR and traded it in for 1 adrenaline per block. As it stands currently I'd rather take dogged march for regen and less impairment or Cull the Weak for Weakness and a damage boost if you wanted more personal damage mitigation. 

[eXruina.4956]

i like the whole sensible balance arguments, but let us look at the game realistically,

 

its not balanced, and balance is poorly maintained. broken kitten that shouldn't exist, exist.

 

why deny boons like protection to warrior? why can't warrior have a seat at table? what possible justification do they have given the game's state of balance all these years til current?

 

just an opinion. all this is ultimately for nothing.

 

but whatever sense people are trying to put in these balance arguments. are ultimately killed by all the broken kitten that is actually running around in the game.

Edited March 28, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

tldr, warrior want our boons, give warrior them boons. 💪

Edited March 28, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, eXruina.4956 said:

i like the whole sensible balance arguments, but let us look at the game realistically,

 

its not balanced, and balance is poorly maintained. broken kitten that shouldn't exist, exist.

 

why deny boons like protection to warrior? why can't warrior have a seat at table? what possible justification do they have given the game's state of balance all these years til current?

 

just an opinion. all this is ultimately for nothing.

 

but whatever sense people are trying to put in these balance arguments. are ultimately killed by all the broken kitten that is actually running around in the game.

I don't disagree. I tried the balance approach for years: (See the omnibus thread and my change requests series...)

Anet in the end is only going to listen to who whines the loudest. That leads to the forum whiner image true, but Anet has proven that is what they listen too.

As far as protection goes, I think the individual banners should have given specific boons on summon from the trait and not just quickness.

Double Standards should be:

Defense: Grant protection for 10s on summon
Tactics: Grant Quickness for 10s on summon
Strength: Grant 20 might for 10s on summon
Discipline: Grant Fury and Swiftness for 10s on summon (just one would be too weak)
Battle Standard: Grant all boons for 5s on summon (5 stacks of might and 5 stacks of stability)

Then have Guard Counter apply Protection in an area to lock in the build for protection.
 

[SleepyBat.9034]

I'm no warrior main, but if I had to guess you don't have much protection because warrior has boatloads of defensives already.

[eXruina.4956]

8 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I'm no warrior main, but if I had to guess you don't have much protection because warrior has boatloads of defensives already.

not more than any of the other classes do, not in today's game, actually maybe less.

 

just do a 1:1 comparison of warrior to all the 8 other classes, that should speak volumes.

 

also note how warrior is designed, with a dominant emphasis to physical damage (squishy gear) and melee combat (walking pincushion).

Edited March 28, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I'm no warrior main, but if I had to guess you don't have much protection because warrior has boatloads of defensives already.

Only the Armor and HP. As far as active defenses it is in the bottom third in total amount available. Only Necro and Rev have fewer active defenses and both of those professions are able to stack damage reduction to a high degree, either through traits or via class mechanics.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

not more than any of the other classes do, not in today's game, actually maybe less.

 

just do a 1:1 comparison of warrior to all the 8 other classes, that should speak volumes.

I did that comparison in April of last year 😉. Warrior ranks at number 7 with Rev at number 8 and Necro at number 9. Protection and Resolution access were not a part of that though and two of the top 3 (guardian and ele) have great access to at least one of those if not both.

[SleepyBat.9034]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I did that comparison in April of last year 😉. Warrior ranks at number 7 with Rev at number 8 and Necro at number 9. Protection and Resolution access were not a part of that though and two of the top 3 (guardian and ele) have great access to at least one of those if not both.

I see, well perhaps I'm wrong.

Whenever I see complaint threads about Warrior's defense I always remember fights I've had vs Spellbreakers running builds like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEh7lNwwYJMRGKu8f6A-zliIzQo3IAAA-w and just infinitely chaining defensive skills and evades.

[Mikali.9651]

Give Evade on all leap skills (as a trait for all I care), full duration block on Mace 2 and Sword 5 with Flip skills on Block. 
Like, why isn't Sundering Blow an evade skill? And why just 600 leap instead of at least 900?

 

Give a far better source for Fury uptime (as a trait) - Furious Burst is a joke, from trait placement to uptime, to the long cooldown that makes no sense. Also, it should apply Fury to allies.

 

Give sustain option in Arms, rework it to work as a modern condition trait line with actual options that make sense.  I don't want to see a trait like Blademaster that only gives condition damage with the sword, it should apply to any weapon.

 

Do something with a Shield that can act as a supportive weapon, in a manner as Warhorn with Roaring Reveille

example: Hardened Armor could actually apply Resolution to allies.

I mean pretty much all the traits could also be applied to allies - Stalwart Strength giving Stability to allies, Last Stand could also give Barrier to allies.

 

Shield Stance could act as a Stance itself, applying Traits that activate on Stance use, or it could be Stun Breaker for allies. Or it could also become a Flip skill and gain another effect after blocking is done.

Shield Bash could be unblockable, and apply Slow on hit (extra bonus if it would apply AoE Slow).

 

I mean there are so many things they could do...I would like to see Warrior being less selfish and actually applying boons to allies, even if all the boons and effects/barrier have a 50% reduction in effectiveness/duration when applied to allies.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Mikali.9651

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, Mikali.9651 said:

Give Evade on all leap skills (as a trait for all I care), full duration block on Mace 2 and Sword 5 with Flip skills on Block.

 

Give a far better source for Fury uptime (as a trait) - Furious Burst is a joke, from trait placement to uptime, to the long cooldown that makes no sense. Also, it should apply Fury to allies.

 

Give sustain option in Arms, rework it to work as a modern condition trait line with actual options that make sense. 

 

Do something with a Shield that can act as a supportive weapon, in a manner as Warhorn with Roaring Reveille

example: Hardened Armor could actually apply Resolution to allies.

I mean pretty much all the traits could also be applied to allies - Stalwart Strength giving Stability to allies, Last Stand could also give Barrier to allies.

 

Shield Stance could act as a Stance itself, applying Traits that activate on Stance use, or it could be Stun Breaker for allies. Or it could also become a Flip skill and gain another effect after blocking is done.

Shield Bash could be unblockable, and apply Slow on hit (extra bonus if it would apply AoE Slow).

 

I mean there are so many things they could do...I would like to see Warrior being less selfish and actually applying boons to allies, even if all the boons and effects/barrier have a 50% reduction in effectiveness/duration when applied to allies.

 

 

All the highlighted would be incredibly broken unless PvE only. Even in PvE only it could possibly be broken.

[SleepyBat.9034]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

All the highlighted would be incredibly broken unless PvE only. Even in PvE only it could possibly be broken.

nvm

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[Mikali.9651]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

All the highlighted would be incredibly broken unless PvE only. Even in PvE only it could possibly be broken.

 

Those are just ideas, on the balance team is to balance it. Many professions have all of that and more, for all I care they can give cooldown to such effects for allies. What I want to see is Warrior having more team-oriented effects so I went with some examples