Hero Points are outdated

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, vares.8457 said:

No one is forced to do anything, every game mode offers hero points. Just play the game and your preferred game mode. I really don’t understand your crying, this is a non issue. 

So you think more options to get HP would be bad for players?

[Gravitron.7982]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

This. Unlocking an espec requires less than a hour of doing HPs in expansion maps. If someone finds that this is too long or requires too much effort, i doubt anything else would be satisfying for them either.

 I just can't agree with ya there bud. I just don't think more options would be worse for players like you do.

[vares.8457]

2 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So you think more options to get HP would be bad for players?

I don’t see a reason to do that. Every game mode already gives you easy and fast hero points. 
What would more options look like? Maybe you can give an example 

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, vares.8457 said:

I don’t see a reason to do that. Every game mode already gives you easy and fast hero points. 
What would more options look like? Maybe you can give an example 

I already gave examples. And that's great that you don't see a reason to do that, but do you see any reason why it would hurt players if they did? I feel like more options would benefit players.

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I just don't think forcing players into game modes they don't want to play is the way to go. PVPers don't want to be forced to raid to get the things they need to PVP, and PVErs don't want to be forced to PVP to get the things they need. There are a group of players who will do both, but for most MMORPG's, most players usually stick to one game mode.

I just don't see how adding more options would hurt players.

Unlocking HPs is just regular gameplay, how is this a problem for you if you actually like playing the game?

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Unlocking HPs is just regular gameplay, how is this a problem for you if you actually like playing the game?

How would more options to unlock HP be a problem for players?

[Sobx.1758]

I'll address your question right after you answer mine ❤️

[vares.8457]

2 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I already gave examples. And that's great that you don't see a reason to do that, but do you see any reason why it would hurt players if they did? I feel like more options would benefit players.

It would be a waste of time and resources to do that. Adding more options would have zero benefit because getting hero points is really not an issue or difficult. 

[Gravitron.7982]

3 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

It would be a waste of time and resources to do that. Adding more options would have zero benefit because getting hero points is really not an issue or difficult. 

I'm talking about if it would hurt players. You're stance is that it would not help them, but would it hurt them?

[vares.8457]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I'm talking about if it would hurt players. Your stance is that it would not help them, but would it hurt them?

It’s completely irrelevant. It is just not justified to add more options because they are not needed or necessary. 

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, vares.8457 said:

It’s completely irrelevant. It is just not justified to add more options because they are not needed or necessary. 

In your opinion, which is fantastic. But I can guarantee it wouldn't hurt players one bit.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If the Devs use resources to add other ways to acquire Hero Points, then those resources can't be used for something more players may enjoy.  That's how it would/could hurt players. 

[Gravitron.7982]

1 minute ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

If the Devs use resources to add other ways to acquire Hero Points, then those resources can't be used for something more players may enjoy.  That's how it would/could hurt players. 

I don't buy that argument. It wouldn't take long to link an existing in game currency to an existing in game system as a reward. And allocating a resource to this function, would only delay other features, not prevent them from ever reaching the game. And the delay would not be a significantly noticeable amount of time.

I mean, they just limited the gambling limit to 20 per day right? Someone had to make that change right? Which pulled them away from more meaningful updates right? Just take the tomes currencies found in PVP maps, and add them to PVE vendors somewhere, and allow other currencies to be able to buy said tomes.

Easy Peasy.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Did you not notice all the bugs associated with the lastest patch?  It's not always 'easy peasy'.  🤦‍♂️

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,
Just a reminder to keep it civil. I've removed some posts.
Regards.

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

The Hero Point system was put in place when the game was still designed around core specs, and only 1 elite spec existed for each class. In 2023, the game is a little different, being that the game is now being designed around elite specs, not core specs.

The game stopped being designed arround core specs the moment the first elite specs got introduced (also core has been powercreeped a lot since then). It's easier than ever to get hero points and unlock elite specs.

2 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

If we could buy them with karma points, or trade in meaningless currencies we collect, etc.

Allowing the purchase of hero points means there will be less players doing hero points/trains, because players always have a tendency to go the easiest and fastest route, even if they don't mind doing the content in question otherwise. Which would make it harder for new players - that won't have currencies stockpiled - to get them. Ultimatively content needs incentives and hero points serve as such. It's the same reason why they keep adding new currencies for new content instead of reusing old ones.

 

It seems like you don't actually want to play the game if neither PvE, PvP or WvW interest you, so i wonder what you even need those hero points for ...

[Gravitron.7982]

2 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

The game stopped being designed arround core specs the moment the first elite specs got introduced (also core has been powercreeped a lot since then). It's easier than ever to get hero points and unlock elite specs.

Allowing the purchase of hero points means there will be less players doing hero points/trains, because players always have a tendency to go the easiest and fastest route, even if they don't mind doing the content in question otherwise. Which would make it harder for new players - that won't have currencies stockpiled - to get them. Ultimatively content needs incentives and hero points serve as such. It's the same reason why they keep adding new currencies for new content instead of reusing old ones.

 

It seems like you don't actually want to play the game if neither PvE, PvP or WvW interest you, so i wonder what you even need those hero points for ...

I never specified that I wasn't interested in PVP or PVE, just that more ways to unlock them for new players couldn't hurt.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

Well I believe a meaningful argument was already presented. The Hero Point system was put in place when the game was still designed around core specs, and only 1 elite spec existed for each class. In 2023, the game is a little different, being that the game is now being designed around elite specs, not core specs.

Every hero point put in the expansion wasn't there just for core specs, clearly being designed around availability of especs though?

29 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I never specified that I wasn't interested in PVP or PVE, just that more ways to unlock them for new players couldn't hurt.

Not adding them also wouldn't hurt since it's just regular OW gameplay, nothing somehow out of reach of new players.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[knives.6345]

What's in it for ANet if they spend time and effort adding "other means" to get HP? Remember, ANet as a business needs to earn money. Time and effort for this = money lost for probably something better, ie: fixing bugs. And no, people do not quit because of HP.  And no, this will not make majority of people go back to GW2 and spend money. This will also not attract new players.

They need to code it, change mechanics, test it and deploy it as a patch. Sounds easy, but it's not (especially now, given last night's fiasco on meta events).

[Gravitron.7982]

1 hour ago, knives.6345 said:

What's in it for ANet if they spend time and effort adding "other means" to get HP? Remember, ANet as a business needs to earn money. Time and effort for this = money lost for probably something better, ie: fixing bugs. And no, people do not quit because of HP.  And no, this will not make majority of people go back to GW2 and spend money. This will also not attract new players.

They need to code it, change mechanics, test it and deploy it as a patch. Sounds easy, but it's not (especially now, given last night's fiasco on meta events).

Yeah I figured that was the view point on this, that if they don't force players to "experience" the content (map exploration) with a carrot on the stick, then players won't do it on their own, and their bottom line goes down.  But I doubt Hero Points are their bottom line though.

[prototypedragon.1406]

3 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

Yeah I figured that was the view point on this, that if they don't force players to "experience" the content (map exploration) with a carrot on the stick, then players won't do it on their own, and their bottom line goes down.  But I doubt Hero Points are their bottom line though.

As long as it is pve it can't be on their bottom line 😉.

[knives.6345]

1 minute ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

Yeah I figured that was the view point on this, that if they don't force players to "experience" the content (map exploration) with a carrot on the stick, then players won't do it on their own, and their bottom line goes down.  But I doubt Hero Points are their bottom line though.

I'm not in any way discounting ideas. Ideas are good, but the idea maker has to defend it.

Again, what will ANet gain? HP works fine, there are no mass protests against it because it's super straightforward and easy. New players won't mind, because they are new and it's a game mechanic. Old players don't mind (save a few on this thread probably) because, again, straightforward and easy. We don't see veterans quitting because of it. 

With all mounts in game, exploration has been a lot easier.  

So, why would ANet spend time, resources, money on something that already works, and only a few people deem "obsolete"?

They won't do it just because 100 out of 20000 players want it. They won't do it just to make a few "happy". They will most likely see this as a non-issue, and direct their 20ish developers fixing bugs, creating new content. If a change on HP even makes the cut to "planning phase" - it will be on a low priority, and someone who has worked on Development knows, priorities kept getting added daily. Low priority things that are classified as "nice to have" only gets picked up if the workload is low - which rarely happens.

[Gravitron.7982]

1 minute ago, knives.6345 said:

I'm not in any way discounting ideas. Ideas are good, but the idea maker has to defend it.

Again, what will ANet gain? HP works fine, there are no mass protests against it because it's super straightforward and easy. New players won't mind, because they are new and it's a game mechanic. Old players don't mind (save a few on this thread probably) because, again, straightforward and easy. We don't see veterans quitting because of it. 

With all mounts in game, exploration has been a lot easier.  

So, why would ANet spend time, resources, money on something that already works, and only a few people deem "obsolete"?

They won't do it just because 100 out of 20000 players want it. They won't do it just to make a few "happy". They will most likely see this as a non-issue, and direct their 20ish developers fixing bugs, creating new content. If a change on HP even makes the cut to "planning phase" - it will be on a low priority, and someone who has worked on Development knows, priorities kept getting added daily. Low priority things that are classified as "nice to have" only gets picked up if the workload is low - which rarely happens.

How did you determine the amount of people that would like the HP updated is only a few? Is there a tracker for this somewhere Anet makes publicly available?

[Manasa Devi.7958]

3 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

How did you determine the amount of people that would like the HP updated is only a few? Is there a tracker for this somewhere Anet makes publicly available?

Conversely, how do you know there are enough new players caring about this "issue" to warrant more than a developer's bored shrug?

[knives.6345]

2 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

How did you determine the amount of people that would like the HP updated is only a few? Is there a tracker for this somewhere Anet makes publicly available?

By sheer power of observation.

Forum topics? this is the only active thread, and not one other thread was merged to it. Sure, a few threads like this may pop up once a year, but again, few.

Map, Guild, Squad chats - 0 topics about HP being outdated.

I did not see anything on Reddit too. Nor on Twitter.

Yes, I did not use search, because why bother? If this is a hot topic, this would spawn multiple threads. (see the meta issue last patch).