Use the existing WVW borderland maps to create PVE maps

[blp.3489]

It strikes me that the WvW Alpine and Desert Borderland maps could be made into fun PVE maps.  Without touching WvW at all of course, you could just use the map assets to create PVE maps that are populated with NPCs instead of opposing players.  The scenario could be that forces in the mists have been overrun by the enemy and your squad has been called in for a counter-offensive.  The idea would be that a squad could form up and enter the map from the home map waypoint with all the other objectives held by NPC forces, the goal would be to take and hold all the objectives on the map while NPC forces defend their objectives and attempt to retake objectives you have captured.  The map assets are already there, the NPC assets are already there, the siege weapon system is already there, you just have to place a greater number of NPCs to create a basic version.  You could then, over time, work on enhancing the NPCs efforts to defend and retake objectives.  Although I haven't seen it I think there is already functionality in WvW with a siege-master NPC that at certain times moves out from a team's home base to siege a nearby objective.  Drizzlewood Coast already has some of these mechanics, like NPCs that use siege weapons, which could probably be reused.

I think it could be a really fun on-demand map meta with squads having a lot of room to devise and try various strategies for splitting the squad up to capture and then hold objectives.

It seems like at least a basic version of this could be created by the devs in relatively little time, and it could then be iteratively upgraded as time goes on and player strategies get too routine.  The could also pretty easily create difficulty options so that squads could up the challenge as they improve.  If it was working well you could even add themes to the enemy forces like being fire legion or frost legion or forged or alliances or whatever.  It would probably be much easier to incorporate things like turtle mounts and other PVE mounts than to incorporate them into WvW, although perhaps doing so would provide some lessons that would provide ideas on how they could be added to WvW in a constructive manner.

As a possible side benefit, it's possible that some PVE players could come to enjoy the map and become curious about, and try, WvW.  And maybe, just maybe, as new features are added to the PVE version of the map some of them could be incorporated back onto the WvW maps to provide a little freshness to the maps there that haven't changed for a long time.

[vares.8457]

No thanks. If you want to play on the borderlands, play WvW. 
The maps themselves are pretty boring, they would have to change quite a lot to make them interesting PvE maps. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by vares.8457

[Dib.4612]

I was rather thinking in the other direction, that they could draw some assets from Ascalon or whatnot and make a Charr vs Human in Ascalon map for WvW.
Plus, they already have made WvW inspired maps like Drizzlewood Coast and the Silver Wastes.

[blp.3489]

1 hour ago, vares.8457 said:

No thanks. If you want to play on the borderlands, play WvW. 
The maps themselves are pretty boring, they would have to change quite a lot to make them interesting PvE maps. 

I already spend the majority of my time in wvw, and the majority of that on the borderlands maps. I think playing as a pve squad would be quite a different experience than wvw.

I think boredom comes more from what I'm doing than the map I'm on. With good pve play I don't think it would be boring.

1 hour ago, Dib.4612 said:

I was rather thinking in the other direction, that they could draw some assets from Ascalon or whatnot and make a Charr vs Human in Ascalon map for WvW.
Plus, they already have made WvW inspired maps like Drizzlewood Coast and the Silver Wastes.

A big part of the appeal for me is reusing the map and assets to minimize development time. The problem with going the other way is needing the objectives and placing them fairly.  You could also argue that there are more pve players to benefit from going in this direction, but wvw definitely deserves a new map after all these years. As I said though, I would hope for some backflow of features to wvw. I think some new features in wvw would have greater impact than changing the map itself.

On the other hand, I can imagine the scathing comments in the forums that reusing a map would cause.

[Chichimec.9364]

This sounds like a fun idea to me, like a bigger version of the Urban Battleground Fractal. I have no idea if Anet would consider doing something like this but hey, it never hurts to toss out such creative ideas. Who knows what seeds might be planted and what might possibly grow from such thinking.

[Cuks.8241]

Or maybe you start on one of south ABL spawns and your goal is to claim garry in a limited amount of time. 

You would need to claim camps for supply. Towers could function as a supply line defending structures, scouting, maybe even add waypoint upgrades for supp cost. Keeps would need to give huge perks like trebs, free golems, friendly npc spawns, dragon banner. 

Could be a very interesting dynamic game mode if its balanced well and offers different strategies. Great, unique idea. 

Champs and all npcs would need to be greatly buffed with some more interesting abilities. 

It would also need 2 modes. Normal for pugs and cm mode as a challenge for guild squads. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Cuks.8241

[Xenesis.6389]

Just go play drizzlewood coast?

Also it would probably be incredibly insulting to wvw players if they took one of their only 4 maps in 11 years, last of which was done 8 years ago, to make into a fully functioning pve map, while they couldn't be bother to do the same by creating any new maps let alone converting pve maps into wvw maps in all those years...

😐

[patton the great.7126]

They already are PvE maps....have you played them?? WvW is PvE with slight PvP contact.

[blp.3489]

3 hours ago, patton the great.7126 said:

They already are PvE maps....have you played them?? WvW is PvE with slight PvP contact.

But I think you could produce a much more engaging PvE experience on the borderland maps than the PvE experience one is stuck with when playing on a deserted WvW map.

The unscripted and unpredictable nature of WvW is its biggest attraction for me.  I can see a PvE meta or squad run event running on a borderland map being less scripted than the current PvE maps with a lot of room for different strategies and the NPCs acting in a much less scripted, more tactical manner, or at least being more driven by tactical responses to player actions.  It would be especially great if it were designed to hard counter the players just zerging.  The first half of Drizzlewood I enjoy, the players are disbursed around the map and there is action going on all over the place, and you get an advantage from even loose cooperative play like splitting your forces.  The second half of Drizzlewood I don't enjoy so much, it is just one big zerg rolling over the adversaries, it's more about tagging enemies before they are obliterated than fighting them, and the whole encounter is very scripted.

[Vavume.8065]

No thanks, leave my Alpine border alone, do not tarnish its splendor.