Central Tyria Mastery Points... ugh.

[Palador.2170]

18 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Experience earned at level 80 is never wasted.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mastery#Excess_experience_and_Spirit_Shards

Read that again, and think about what we're talking about.

 

We have the mastery system, otherwise this wouldn't even be an issue.

We have unlocked the mastery tracks.

We can not finish the mastery tracks.

 

We get no Spirit Shards. The EXP is wasted.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Endaris.1452 said:

If you don't have LS2, the pool is shrinking down to 67.

Then consider that anet decided to put mastery points on achievements as delightful as golden fractal weapons, ambrite weapons or emperor's new wardrobe that are just insanely grindy or insanely expensive to complete for a single mastery point.

These are not remotely needed to unlock all of the masteries though. So... just pick the other ones. Yup, that's it.

[Endaris.1452]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

These are not remotely needed to unlock all of the masteries though. So... just pick the other ones. Yup, that's it.

How about you read through the rest of my post explaining how others may easily prove difficult as well instead of cherrypicking.

[Endaris.1452]

15 minutes ago, Palador.2170 said:

Read that again, and think about what we're talking about.

 

We have the mastery system, otherwise this wouldn't even be an issue.

We have unlocked the mastery tracks.

We can not finish the mastery tracks.

 

We get no Spirit Shards. The EXP is wasted.

Afaik if you have full experience in a fractal attunement step but can't train it due to lack of points, that track counts as "trained but not acquired". Further masteries in fractal attunment are considered locked because you need to train the previous one first, causing all extra exp to go to the hidden exp bar for spirit shards.

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, Endaris.1452 said:

How about you read through the rest of my post explaining how others may easily prove difficult as well instead of cherrypicking.

But "considering there are some hard collections included" is irrelevant to anything because those collections are at no point needed. If you are unable to play the game then complaining about not 100%ing it also makes no sense. Core masteries are fine and just include normal playable content of the game. The way you complain about these points here has no other "viable (for you) solution" than having auto-unlocks.

You're also talking about nitpicking, but in your previous post you're talking about someone "not wanting to run t1 fractals", so "those points aren't acquirable", but at the same time you somehow... don't subtract fractal masteries from the "total needed"? Why is that?

Overally if you're into instant gratification and not playing content because no then all you're looking at is... unlocking pact commander. Someone not wanting to run fractals don't need fractal masteries. Someone wanting "easier ways" might as well buy leggies off tp, so these masteries are also unneeded. You either want to actually play the game or you want instant gratification while you avoid the game's content, what else is there to say here?

Edited May 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[idpersona.3810]

1 hour ago, Palador.2170 said:

We get no Spirit Shards. The EXP is wasted.

This is an incorrect statement. XP is never wasted. It just pours into an unseen track. You'll get spirit shards at regular intervals.

More on topic, I found Central Tyria masteries easier to max out than HoT ones. But that mostly because I seem to be bad at various adventures 🙂

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Overally if you're into instant gratification and not playing content because no then all you're looking at is... unlocking pact commander.

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The way you complain about these points here has no other "viable (for you) solution" than having auto-unlocks.

He used the word empathy, implying it is not his problem. Maybe you should look the word up. Also you are very rude pls tone it down. Or learn to read a whole post without seeing enemies in every post that disagrees with you.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

He used the word empathy, implying it is not his problem. Maybe you should look the word up. Also you are very rude pls tone it down. Or learn to read a whole post without seeing enemies in every post that disagrees with you.

That changes nothing about what was being said. If he talks about someone else then my response is pretty obviously directed at the same person. If he's talking about someone hypothetical then so am I. Again, the target changes nothing about the contents of these posts, but hopefully you can address what was being written in them now. I also don't see what was rude there, I don't see any "enemy" here, not sure what you're on about.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Linken.6345]

14 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

He used the word empathy, implying it is not his problem. Maybe you should look the word up. Also you are very rude pls tone it down. Or learn to read a whole post without seeing enemies in every post that disagrees with you.

Pot calling the kettle black here I think.

Still haven corrected yourself about you being wrong with the spirit shard hidden track that Anet implemented afew years back btw.

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Pot calling the kettle black here I think.

Still haven corrected yourself about you being wrong with the spirit shard hidden track that Anet implemented afew years back btw.

You may want to reread my username. Then reread the username of the person who made the spirit shard claim.

That is the prime opportunity to show your are able to correct yourself and apologize:).

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

22 hours ago, PepeLePewPew.2107 said:

So, I agree with the OP.  Tyria points should be revisited.   I suspect that those who have an excess of Tyria masteries regularly play fractals or other modes of the game where they can be got.  Maybe just add an option to move points (for Tyria only).

I had excess Tyrian Masteries before giving Fractals a go. Less than 1/4th of the Masteries are from Fractals.
So, yes, we regularly play modes where we can get a lot of Central Tyria MPs, that's called Open World.

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

You are truly a master at being toxic without breaking forum rules:). Its Impressive. You ignoring halve what he wrote isn't an argument. It is reiterating you opinion in a room of people who share your opinion anyway.

I didn’t see any toxic behavior. Having a discussion or debate is not being toxic. And it’s a little ironic with the passive aggressive behavior I’m picking up from some of your responses. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

15 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

didn’t see any toxic behavior. Having a discussion or debate is not being toxic.

I believe you that you don't see toxic behavior. Each time a discussion about one of the more tedious feature of GW 2 starts you always see the same. Implying the person in question is lazy or out to get a benefit for themselves even if it is apparent that that is not case. And I felt compelled to call these rude implications out, which isn't exactly passive aggressive from me. You just agree with the slender people here spew, doesn't make it less toxic.

 

 

[Freya.9075]

4 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

I believe you that you don't see toxic behavior. Each time a discussion about one of the more tedious feature of GW 2 starts you always see the same. Implying the person in question is lazy or out to get a benefit for themselves even if it is apparent that that is not case. And I felt compelled to call these rude implications out, which isn't exactly passive aggressive from me. You just agree with the slender people here spew, doesn't make it less toxic.

 

 

So, let me get this straight. Disagreeing with someone = toxic behavior and makes them slender people (1. adjective. A slender person is attractively thin and graceful. Hmm 🤔) who spew their personal opinions out. Seems like a rather strange statement to me.

wether I agree with their statement or not does not change how I see a discussion from outside. I can agree with someone and still think they could say their arguments a better way. Even feel they are toxic. This however is not one of these times. Or I can disagree with someone and feel they are respectful with their choice of words and have a good discussion and still disagree with them. Which also did not happen this time. If you cannot see the passive aggressive replies you made, then so be it. It’s your choice how you want to reply to people. 

[Endaris.1452]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But "considering there are some hard collections included" is irrelevant to anything because those collections are at no point needed. If you are unable to play the game then complaining about not 100%ing it also makes no sense. Core masteries are fine and just include normal playable content of the game. The way you complain about these points here has no other "viable (for you) solution" than having auto-unlocks.

You're also talking about nitpicking, but in your previous post you're talking about someone "not wanting to run t1 fractals", so "those points aren't acquirable", but at the same time you somehow... don't subtract fractal masteries from the "total needed"? Why is that?

Overally if you're into instant gratification and not playing content because no then all you're looking at is... unlocking pact commander. Someone not wanting to run fractals don't need fractal masteries. Someone wanting "easier ways" might as well buy leggies off tp, so these masteries are also unneeded. You either want to actually play the game or you want instant gratification while you avoid the game's content, what else is there to say here?

Uhh, so I guess we have some kind of misunderstanding here.

I have maxed out Core Tyria masteries and 27 points left over to spend. I started playing around the release of LS2 part 8 so since there was no expansion content to look for, I purchased all the LS2 episodes with gold-to-gem conversion and therefore was never in the situaton I was criticizing.

My critique goes along these lines:

For every mastery point system, there exist more points than necessary to max them out. The idea behind that to me seems to be to allow people to choose the content they want to play to some degree in order to unlock all masteries.

In my opinion, mastery points are best placed on achievements that take around 0.5-2h of dedicated effort to complete OR are part of the natural gameplay progression you could expect from a player.

I hope you can agree that that is not "not playing the game" or "instant gratification".

Overall I think the following mastery points are great examples of respecting your time while nudging you to play some interesting content:
- Finishing story
- Finishing all dungeon stories
- World Boss related mastery points
- Hidden Garden and Silverwastes Jumping Puzzle
- T1 fractal achievements (minus the ones for aquatic ruins and molten furnace)
- Open World mastery insights (some of these could be harder to access imo or just placed on other achievements)

Overall this is a significant enough portion to finish the vast majority of masteries. If you read one of my earlier comments, you will see that I suggested locking fractal masteries behind finishing a fractal due to someone tossing points into fractals without realizing they aren't going to play that content. If you do that you're kind of stuck because the majority of remaining mastery points are significantly higher effort or just straight up unreasonable if you do not play fractals AND do not have access to LS2 (which again, is hidden behind a paywall, farming gold is also significant effort). The alternative suggestion was to bundle LS2 with HoT so that there are sufficient mastery points available that have a reasonable time investment attached to them.

Putting mastery points on achievements none ever is going to unlock before having excess mastery points and calling it

Quote

There are already nearly twice as many mastery points available for Central Tyria than you need

is simply misleading cause it's just not true especially when 20% of the points are locked behind LS2 access.

I definitely agree that there are enough easy points if you play all content but not having LS2 access will certainly leave you with relatively little freedom to pick between the more attainable options as they'll be limited.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Endaris.1452

[Gravitron.7982]

On 5/29/2023 at 10:01 AM, TheOuroborus.6387 said:

I've been playing GW2 since launch back in 2012 and have maxed every mastery in HoT, PoF and now EoD. BUT... to this day -- nearly 13 freaking years later -- I still need 28 mastery points in the core game of Central Tyria.  Yes, I've read all the farming posts and watched all the yTube videos on it and they all lead to tedious pain and suffering (oh yay!... I can get 1 point by finding 50 bugs in Lion's Arch... oh yeah... you'll probably drop the special gun a million times in the dark and give up, but hey... 1 point! only 27 more to go!!!). This isn't really a question/response post, it's just a hope that some dev somewhere takes up the cause and gives us a better way to attain mastery points in Central Tyria. That is all.

Why respect your time when game devs don't have to right?

[Sobx.1758]

20 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Uhh, so I guess we have some kind of misunderstanding here.

I have maxed out Core Tyria masteries and 27 points left over to spend. I started playing around the release of LS2 part 8 so since there was no expansion content to look for, I purchased all the LS2 episodes with gold-to-gem conversion and therefore was never in the situaton I was criticizing.

Meanwhile I was playing without s2 -so I guess I was in the situation you're talking about here- and still think there's nothing wrong with core masteries. They simply don't need to be rushed for any reason, people play content and get mastery points. If people refuse to play content, they'll get less opportunities for the mastery points. I don't see how this is supposed to be bad at all.

20 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

My critique goes along these lines:

For every mastery point system, there exist more points than necessary to max them out. The idea behind that to me seems to be to allow people to choose the content they want to play to some degree in order to unlock all masteries.

In my opinion, mastery points are best placed on achievements that take around 0.5-2h of dedicated effort to complete OR are part of the natural gameplay progression you could expect from a player.

I hope you can agree that that is not "not playing the game" or "instant gratification".

Overall I think the following mastery points are great examples of respecting your time while nudging you to play some interesting content:
- Finishing story
- Finishing all dungeon stories
- World Boss related mastery points
- Hidden Garden and Silverwastes Jumping Puzzle
- T1 fractal achievements (minus the ones for aquatic ruins and molten furnace)
- Open World mastery insights (some of these could be harder to access imo or just placed on other achievements)

...and I don't get why you're dismissing any achievements that aren't somehow impervious to failure (like aquatic ruins and molten furnace, which aren't exactly that hard either). Just because someone might need to try getting them in more than one attempt is supposed to be somehow a dealbreaker? I can't agree with that at all. It's also a bit interesting that you count fractal achievmenets as accessible, but tried to subtract them from the available pool "because what if someone doesn't want to play the content". I mean... what there is to say to someone who just goes "I won't play it because no!"? Not much else than "ok, good luck then" -it's their choice, but that doesn't mean they should suddenly have more/easier ways to get achievements/mastery points when they refuse to try an introductory tier 1 whatever content "just because".

20 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Overall this is a significant enough portion to finish the vast majority of masteries.

Exactly, so I still don't see that as an issue.

20 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

If you read one of my earlier comments, you will see that I suggested locking fractal masteries behind finishing a fractal due to someone tossing points into fractals without realizing they aren't going to play that content.

I don't think it's needed since I think people should read before making a decision and it should be obvious that if they don't want to play fractals, they... don't need fractal masteries. But I also don't have much against it, it's more or less: "whatever, might as well".

20 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Putting mastery points on achievements none ever is going to unlock before having excess mastery points and calling it

is simply misleading cause it's just not true especially when 20% of the points are locked behind LS2 access.

I definitely agree that there are enough easy points if you play all content but not having LS2 access will certainly leave you with relatively little freedom to pick between the more attainable options as they'll be limited.

Lets make it clear, coming from the perspective I mentioned under the first quote, when I talk about core masteries, I'm not taking s2 points into consideration because my experience didn't include having s2 and its masteries.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Khisanth.2948]

15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...and I don't get why you're dismissing any achievements that aren't somehow impervious to failure (like aquatic ruins and molten furnace, which aren't exactly that hard either)

Actually I think both of those and others can impervious to failure. Basically all the "don't get hit" ones. They are only somewhat challenging if you intend to do them properly. If you just want to get it done I will just point out that you generally can't get hit if you are dead. 😉

In the case of aquatic and uncategorized simply waiting until the party has reached the final checkpoint then joining should also work. Waiting in the beginning and using /gg might also work.

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Actually I think both of those and others can impervious to failure. Basically all the "don't get hit" ones. They are only somewhat challenging if you intend to do them properly. If you just want to get it done I will just point out that you generally can't get hit if you are dead. 😉

In the case of aquatic and uncategorized simply waiting until the party has reached the final checkpoint then joining should also work. Waiting in the beginning and using /gg might also work.

Yeah, I know, but still I wanted to consider the achievements for what they are, without the player "cheesing" their way through it. 😄 The point is that even if someone needs multiple attempts to get it, I fail to see what's supposed to be wrong with that.

[Khisanth.2948]

9 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah, I know, but still I wanted to consider the achievements for what they are, without the player "cheesing" their way through it. 😄 The point is that even if someone needs multiple attempts to get it, I fail to see what's supposed to be wrong with that.

"I want this achievement" + "this achievement is too difficult" + "this achievement should only be obtained in the strictest proper way" + "there should be other ways to get the equivalent of this achievement"

I am not sure how to describe that situation except: Why? Pride?

It is also not clear what point people are trying to make. If the point is that everyone should be able to max out all masteries playing whatever then we don't need alternative ways to get points. Just get rid of mastery points entirely.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

"I want this achievement" + "this achievement is too difficult" + "this achievement should only be obtained in the strictest proper way" + "there should be other ways to get the equivalent of this achievement"

I am not sure how to describe that situation except: Why? Pride?

It is also not clear what point people are trying to make. If the point is that everyone should be able to max out all masteries playing whatever then we don't need alternative ways to get points. Just get rid of mastery points entirely.

Yup, exactly. I don't get why he's discounting certain masteries so easly OR why people somehow think they need to max out -even moreso when they don't use most of them anyways. It doesn't make sense to me. And so core doesn't need more mastery points 😉 

[Gravitron.7982]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah, I know, but still I wanted to consider the achievements for what they are, without the player "cheesing" their way through it. 😄 The point is that even if someone needs multiple attempts to get it, I fail to see what's supposed to be wrong with that.

Because it wastes player's time on such an inconsequential task. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If it's inconsequential, why is it being done? 

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Because it wastes player's time on such an inconsequential task. 

Then don't do it.

[Gravitron.7982]

23 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

I believe you that you don't see toxic behavior. Each time a discussion about one of the more tedious feature of GW 2 starts you always see the same. Implying the person in question is lazy or out to get a benefit for themselves even if it is apparent that that is not case. And I felt compelled to call these rude implications out, which isn't exactly passive aggressive from me. You just agree with the slender people here spew, doesn't make it less toxic.

 

 

I believe the term is called gaslighting, and you are correct....this happens very often here lol.