anet is on a good direction.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It's not undeniable. I deny it. There you go.

Then you deny reality, because it did raise concerns. You not sharing them does not mean this didn't happen.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Then you deny reality, because it did raise concerns. You not sharing them does not mean this didn't happen.

It's undeniable that a percentage of people expressed concern, but so what? A percentage of people, a much larger percentage even, said we'd never have another expansion before EoD came out, and almost that many people said we'd never have any expansion before HoT came out. In both cases, I came out saying otherwise.

I'm not saying concern doesn't exist. I'm saying concern isn't yet warranted, because we haven't started the new cycle. I mean you can be concerned about anything you want, but that doesn't make that concern legitimate. Some people get concerned much more easily than others. 

I agree that the forum made some noise, but it wasn't even a big noise compared to what we've seen in the past. It wasn't even really a modest noise.  Some people really like the adventures that have been added. Some didn't like the story for sure, but some defended it. I'm one of the people who didn't like the story btw. But I spent a long time going through DRMs and I didn't like those either particularly.  Not all of them in a row.

Anyway the idea of using words like undeniable to make something look like it's some sort of inevitability is  just that. There's ALWAYS some concern. So what?  There was some concern there was never going to be another expansion and that was wrong. I'm denying this concern is widespread enough to even bother commenting on. Sorry I wasted my time doing so.

[Poormany.4507]

23 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

On 6/13/2023 at 7:33 PM, Poormany.4507 said:

So, I would not be surprised if the actual mini-expacs consist of two LW-level maps and story and one subpar Gyala-level map and story from the quarterly updates.

 What you've quoted here isn't the whole expansion, it's a smaller part of it. The planned expansion release doesn't fit gyala and you know it (hence the convenient trim). 

I didn't write that the quarterly update will be the whole expac and I'm not sure why people are implying it is. Based on Anet's post, it seems like the quarterly releases will be released as multi-part maps and compose ~1/3 of the expac content (the other 2/3 will be the 2 seemingly regular full, single-release LW or expac size/quality maps) Based on the release page of What Lies Within, as well as the aforementioned post, it implies that Gyala is similar in format to what the quarterly updates will be, which is concerning, given how little content/quality were included in it compared to prior LW seasons because most of the resources/staff went into the next expac:

What Lies Within’ will remain permanently free to play for owners of Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons. If you haven’t logged in to check out the previous story update yet, you’re in luck—’What Lies Beneath’ is still available to play for free today! That means if you didn’t log in for “What Lies Beneath,” you’re in luck—that content is still available to you today!

We’re making that change to reflect how we’re thinking of expansions and related content moving forward.

A third of the expac content being consistently subpar is not a good look. I'm really hoping that Gyala's the exception, rather than the rule, for sacrificing quarterly release content for expac development, but given Anet's already done this before with IBS, it's not looking too good.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[Zok.4956]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

is not going to happen since it's not going to sell those expansions. Like... what's somehow still unclear here?

You write it like it is a fact. But it is not a fact, it is your opinion. It is a valid opinion/guess, but there are other, also valid, opinions/guesses. What's all in the next expansion becomes a fact for us at the moment when Anet releases the expansion, or someone with insight tells us all the details.

 

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The release those few people -and I guess now you too?- are suggesting here is not happening.

I'm not suggesting that it will happen and I think it would be a big mistake if it happens. But given Anets track record of making mistakes, it is a posibility that they could make this mistake.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It's undeniable that a percentage of people expressed concern, but so what?

Nothing. It just means that what @Fueki.4753 wrote (and what you denied) is true. It is undeniable that "the size of the two Gyala Delve releases created concern over the content sizes that Arenanet may think are fine to give to their players". A percentage (not so small as you try to imply, btw) of players indeed did get concerned due to that.

10 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

A percentage of people, a much larger percentage even, said we'd never have another expansion before EoD came out, and almost that many people said we'd never have any expansion before HoT came out.

And, so what? The post you denied did say that it was impossible to validate at the moments if those concerns are valid or not. It said only that they do exist and are not groundless. In the case of both HoT and EoD, those concerns were also not groundless - in those both cases they were even supported by official Anet statements to that end. The only reason those concerns didn't pan out then was (in both cases) NCSoft overriding Anet's decisions from above and enforcing a game direction change.

10 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

In both cases, I came out saying otherwise.

Yes. There were also cases where people voiced their concerns, you disagreed with them, and in the end you were the one that guessed wrong. You being right in those two cases does not mean you will be right in this one. Nor those concerns being valid means they will ultimately end up true. Again, as Fueki said there's no way to be sure which way it will go at this point.

10 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I'm not saying concern doesn't exist. I'm saying concern isn't yet warranted, because we haven't started the new cycle. I mean you can be concerned about anything you want, but that doesn't make that concern legitimate. Some people get concerned much more easily than others.

No. You dismissing the basis for those concerns as invalid is just your subjective view on the situation. The concerned players' view of the situation is no less "legitimate" as yours is. Even if you disagree with it.

[Vayne.8563]

23 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nothing. It just means that what @Fueki.4753 wrote (and what you denied) is true. It is undeniable that "the size of the two Gyala Delve releases created concern over the content sizes that Arenanet may think are fine to give to their players". A percentage (not so small as you try to imply, btw) of players indeed did get concerned due to that.

And, so what? The post you denied did say that it was impossible to validate at the moments if those concerns are valid or not. It said only that they do exist and are not groundless. In the case of both HoT and EoD, those concerns were also not groundless - in those both cases they were even supported by official Anet statements to that end. The only reason those concerns didn't pan out then was (in both cases) NCSoft overriding Anet's decisions from above and enforcing a game direction change.

Yes. There were also cases where people voiced their concerns, you disagreed with them, and in the end you were the one that guessed wrong. You being right in those two cases does not mean you will be right in this one. Nor those concerns being valid means they will ultimately end up true. Again, as Fueki said there's no way to be sure which way it will go at this point.

No. You dismissing the basis for those concerns as invalid is just your subjective view on the situation. The concerned players' view of the situation is no less "legitimate" as yours is. Even if you disagree with it.

Saying there's an undeniable concern would always be true, because someone is always concerned about something. I talk to dozens of people every day and barely find anyone in game who's actually concerned. They're all doing their own thing. WvW, raids, fractals, and yes, story and exploration.

The forum community isn't indicative of the in game community and very often the problems I see here the people I talk to aren't even aware of.

I'm not saying everyone loved the last story patch. I'm saying they take it at face value without associating it with what came before or after.  The patch before that wasn't much loved by a lot of people and other people liked it just fine.  I'm not dismissing the basis of concerns as invalid as much as saying the language used to express the concern is misleading.

People saying there undeniable concern also means that concern is some sort of majority or so many people feel that way. It's undeniable some people feel that way. It's not undeniable that a sizable percentage of the game's  playerbase feels that way. 

Concerns are what they are. They're not MY concern. That is to say, I don't think the vast majority of concerns have been born out. When ascended gear came out only a few months after launch, this forum was rife with complaints and there was a mass exodus from this game. People were concerned about the slippery slope. That was more than 10 years ago. It never eventuated, even though there was concern. Concern doesn't predict the future. It doesn't even really accomplish anything. You can say the concern is valid, but based on what? Two patches of different size and different content that some people liked anyway?  Okay. Shrugs.

It's all fear and hyperbole on this forum, and it not only doesn't help the game, it's not particularly fun for people busy worrying about it. I know quite a few people who no longer visit this forum and just have fun playing the game, because of the sky is falling crowd.  

You want to believe that a concern is valid go right ahead. So was the slippery slope argument that people were concerned with about ascended gear, but we've received no new tiers of gear since then.

I'll go out on a limb and say I believe that the content we received is not indicative of what we're going to get, because we haven't started the new cycle yet and this is just finishing stuff off. They had to solve the Canthan problem they left us with before they move onto the next thing.

I felt the same way about IBS. People said that EoD would suck, because they didn't like the end of IBS. I said, wait and see. I'm not saying it'll lbe great and rosy. I'm just not worrying about it being bad now, because we don't have enough information and it accomplishes nothing. People always defend their right to be miserable and worried. Okay. Have at it. Be miserable and worried.

The people I play with don't come to the forum so they can enjoy the game without that kind of weight dragging them down.

[Sobx.1758]

14 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

I didn't write that the quarterly update will be the whole expac and I'm not sure why people are implying it is.

Then why are you responding to me with what you did in your last post? What you responded to (with the partial quote of the "studio update") was this quote from my post:

On 6/13/2023 at 7:17 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

What exactly are you basing this on? Because as far as I remember, the Gyala release is not somehow an equivalent of the new smaller expacs. They told us what it was and pretty sure it was not "one map with 1/5th(?) of it cut off to add it in later". And that's basically what Gyala was.

 

[https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/131558-anet-is-on-a-good-direction/page/3/#comment-1912724]

...which was a direct response to Fueki saying this:

On 6/13/2023 at 7:14 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

If people are going to pay a hypothetical 25€ and only receive droplets of content amounting to what we got with two Gyala Delve episodes (which together are less content than any single Season 3 or 4 episode), I don't mind them complaining over insufficient value for their money.

I personally won't like to pay more than 10€, if a mini expansion ends up being less than two Living World episodes.

If Gyala Delve is anything to go by, it's not unrealistic to think that a mini expansion will be less content than two Living World episodes.

Now you're saying you're "not sure why people imply quarterly update will be the whole expac"... Well, that's exactly the point and what I was responding to. People implying that are clearly wrong, possibly forgot -or didn't know- what the studio update in its entirity said and then after going back to it, they'd rather revert into some weird "maybe 3 maps will equal 1 gyala map?!" than admit they wrote something completely baseless and move on to find another "reason" for their doomsaying.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

11 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

You write it like it is a fact. But it is not a fact, it is your opinion. It is a valid opinion/guess, but there are other, also valid, opinions/guesses. What's all in the next expansion becomes a fact for us at the moment when Anet releases the expansion, or someone with insight tells us all the details.

Nope, as much as we don't know what EXACTLY the expansion will be, there's 0 doubt that what you or fueki said is simply not happening and it's based on what we know the next expansions will be, since it was clearly laid out to us by the company making that expansion. What you're saying though is nothing more than an opinion going against everything we know.

11 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

I'm not suggesting that it will happen and I think it would be a big mistake if it happens. But given Anets track record of making mistakes, it is a posibility that they could make this mistake.

Of course you're not, because you just want to stay in the zone of impossible hypotheticals. Except it's clear what you said is not happening, so I agree that staying within the range of impossible hypotheticals is the only way you can even respond to anything here. Why you'd want to do that though? Not sure, but hope you're at least having fun with that.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758