June 27 Balance Update Preview

[Myror.7521]

@WaterMud.8106 urm i would say the exact opposide. Daring Dragon was pretty mutch useless while Immortal Dragon is the best Open World trait in any sence. For real I never saw any warr Player using Daring Dragon cause its Just a meme traitline where u sit in gunsaber Mode and spaming its 1-3 skills only Player i saw using it was a PvP one and He was pretty obv. Trole

^^

[Pie.2167]

For Chronomancer, the issue with Flow of Time and moving alacrity to Phantasm summon instead of wells and Tides of Time, is that it now requires a target.  Chronomancer will no longer have a reliable way to provide party alac in WvW.

Temporal curtain was probably the most fun skill a Mesmer had.  Range reduction really was not necessary. 

As for Virtuoso, Bladeturn Requiem is a complete waste of blades.  No one should ever be activating this skill now.

Very disappointed. 
 

[Mistwraithe.3106]

There's a meme that you know you have made a balanced decision when everyone is equally unhappy....

It doesn't actually mean that you've made the best decision though, just a balanced decision. If you decided to kill everyone in the room then that's a balanced decision in that everyone is going to be equally unhappy, but it's not a good decision!

Your real goal should be to make everyone happy, but as equally as possible. From the response in this thread, very, very few people are happy with these changes. Most importantly you are removing class favour in multiple places towards the goal of giving everyone similar options. People don't want all the classes to play the same way, that's boring. We want our class favour, we want necros to be able to resurrect people, we want spellbreakers to be able to strip boons, we want Mirages to have their unique single dodge, we want a spinning berserker to be something to dodge away from lest you get cut up. That's what makes classes fun!

Edited June 11, 2023 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Ukasumananganos.4035]

Tempest:

Change the way alacrity is given to alacrity given along with Auras to allies this allows alacrity to be given in any element, doesnt lock you into spamming shouts/overloads, allows you to stay in water for the on demand healing that Tempest is lacking, alternatively make it that is I take a trait line such as Water have no cooldown to re-enter that element.

Scrapper:

Just no please do not do this I do not want to animation lock myself into death with hammer 3, I actively avoid this skill as it is, also yeh make function gyro a spam off cool down pity if I wanted that cool quick revive it provides, sorry that on cooldown, it not fixing the issues if any thing now you are just spamming gyros and finishes off cooldown, but in a timely manner? 

I would much rather see the barrier trait reworked applying barrier to yourself and allies can apply quickness but with a loss in power damage, would sort of be the opposite on the dps grandmaster trait.

Scourge:

It isn't a tope DPS build as is and we are going to nerf both top DPS as well as destroy Heal Scourge which is one of the most unique necromancer builds of any MMO out there, I get that some content if trivialized by Heal Scourge but for training groups this just turns into a DPS lose it isn't a valid issue, personally I don't need it but  I feel sorry for players learning strike or raid mechanics going down team clears and they never experience the fight...

Please don't change the shade time even with Alacrity on shades/barrier this wouldn't  be broken people stack any ways, and what's the issue with a player getting alacrity of group?

All this does it make you spam shade even more and lose the bonus from sand sage more often as DPS lose, further more the conversion on boons to conditions on necro needs to stay this is so much fun to play with and can be super fun and engaging when playing things such as fractals where enemies are getting tons of boons to throw that in their face feels good and fun.

[Zagerus.8675]

As far as the Warrior boon-share changes go, I think they would be functional, but only boonsharing when hitting enemy with a skill is a real snag. Those little moments of downtime when phasing a boss or waiting for the next mob to spawn -and then having to get into the profession mechanic - and then use the attack - and then the boon application happens - it doesn't feel that satisfying to play. A player can adapt to it, but it doesn't feel has good as huddling with your team and smoothly blending in quickness like Firebrand or using the reprieve in fighting to infuse teammates on alacrev. 

These warrior changes would be usable, but clunky in certain scenarios compared to other options. On that note, I do find enjoyment in utilizing clunky aspects of GW2's combat, especially if the payoff is good for executing correctly. Flurry root is/was a good example! For Daring Dragon, maybe grant some barrier to allies per charge consumed along with the Alac. Just something to where it's like "Ok, I can't boonshare immediately all of the time, but when I do you can skip this dodge" Those little touch's, like in other updates, have pushed ok changes into sterling changes where the skills/playstyles flourish up into viability. 

[PseudoOAlias.4279]

@Myror.7521

Respectfully I completely disagree. It's extremely fun & after 11 years it's literally the only build I have ever enjoyed in PvP and WvW. Just because you do not like how something plays or know how to build for it does not make it a "meme" build. It's probably just not for you. Especially when you consider that NO ONE uses [Immortal Dragon] at all. So they could just put the alac there. Literally no reason to not give options. If something isn't for you, don't play it. I'm not the type of person who needs everyone to have fun the same way I am.' That's idiotic, people are different.

My Receipts:

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by PseudoOAlias.4279

[GuriGashi.5617]

I hope CMC will be finished reworking Elementalist weapons and Warrior traitlines soon - pretty weird to see the 2 classes he used to play getting all the reworks for over a year despite being already strong picks in PvP. 

Some people may call it biased, but hey keep up the “good work”. My bet is that the patch after this one will probably include a rework for Elementalist Focus as well after Scepter, Staff, Dagger mainhand and Dagger offhand already got theirs. There are specs that haven’t been touched in PvP for over a year and don‘t see play while CMC is busy giving already broken classes that see play in Monthly Automated Tournament Semis & Finals such as Catalyst, Berserker & Untamed even more alternatives. For PvP this patch will make the gap between viable and unviable specs even wider and the reactions below the post tell everything about the quality of this balance update.

Edited June 11, 2023 by GuriGashi.5617

[Ruinition.3875]

Arc Divider change is absolutely ridiculous. This destroys a large part of class fantasy for no benefit to anybody. 

[Purrplecat.8310]

I've only been playing GW2 for six months, and this news makes me want to quit. My main is a Scourge, and I don't want any Alacrity.  Don't neuter Scourge! Leave the class with its uniqueness intact. 

[Underyill.6495]

@PseudoOAlias.4279

" Just because you do not like how something plays or know how to build for it does not make it a "meme" build. It's probably just not for you. Especially when you consider that NO ONE uses [Immortal Dragon] at all. So they could just put the alac there. Literally no reason to not give options. "

This ^ But also for Heal Scourge. Dear everyone whining about how HS enables "lazy gameplay" Do you have ANY idea how convenient this build is for showing new players how to actually do a raid fight? Let alone HT?? Scourge doesn't need to do everything, neither does Warrior. BUT OPTIONS ARE NOT A BAD THING ESPECIALLY IF SOMEONE IS ALREADY ENJOYING THEM! Why eliminate something people are clearly using+enjoying when you can just make it an option? Ranger is getting $hitloads of options for it's play. Why not everyone??

Side note: A lack of class diversity/fluidity has historically been what's made me quit other games I've played for a long time. I don't see why GW2 won't be any different with the way it's going.

[HonesltlyX.7164]

For warrior banners are now completely irrelevant in PvE now that quickness is taken away. The only reason quick warrior is ever a thing was because of banners. Now there is no reason to run it. No one in a group cares for the might, fury it brings if other support classes can do it better without making a group hug a flag in a fight.

Why did you nerf Arc Divider? The three 3 strikes to 1 will feel just as bad as the Bladesworn Dragon Trigger 3 change. This will hit like a wet noodle and hurts the spec's fantasy by making it feel weaker than implied.

Please nerf just the power coefficient and preserve the 3 strikes. It will feel much better for the class fantasy with the quickness changes to berserker.

Edited June 12, 2023 by HonesltlyX.7164
To add feedback.

[Placentlad.9742]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:03 AM, Malsheem.1794 said:

Im not really sure what you want Scourge do to now. Youre giving it Alacrity (which btw, nobody wanted) and by doing so, you deleted both DPS Scourge AND Heal scourge. 

 

Agreed, if they're removing the Scourge off-heal/rez hybrid dps role, at minimum the dps numbers should be buffed to compensate. Scg w/o its niche role, why would anyone play a subpar dps compare to other condi specs...

[lex de gouw.6214]

Awesome changes! I really like the philosophy behind the changes and because of it feel confident that numbers will be adjusted where needed. Cool that all classes can now give both quick and alac and even in a less restrictive way, but rather in a way that you would want to play your profession anyway, like spamming burst skills on berserker (I do wonder if this makes axe much better because of the spammability). On one hand I wonder if I like that some weapon will probably fit a certain role much better, as it may push you more toward that option and restrict you a bit, but on the other hand I think I also kinda like that each weapon has more of a defined role and can see more use in that way (Instead of certain weapons just being a better option at pretty much everything).
I look forward to trying many new builds and revisiting builds I used to try different utilities on them.
I like that healscourge isn't just a rezbot anymore, though they still have some of this capability and have to think a bit more with the pulling downed members in part.
Keep it up and I look forward the live changes!
 

EDIT: I realize I was wondering what your stance is towards most healbuilds being alacrity focused (Scourge, Tempest, Druid, Spectre, Mechanist and Renegade vs. Herald and Firebrand), while most of the quickness builds are  geared towards dps supports (although the difference in dps support isn't as big, as there are a good amount of alac dps options).
Right now when someone wants to play alac dps, the healer of that subgroup kind of has to role with either firebrand or herald which restricts group compositions a lot and makes it so it is also harder to play alac dps classes.
Is the phylosophy:
1: Make less of a discrepancy between the amount healing classes being alac vs quickness?
2: Make all healing classes alacrity?
3: Leave it as is?

Edited June 11, 2023 by lex de gouw.6214

[Lacidrutt.3678]

I love how they say they’ll put all their focus into gw2, stop expansions for more content, and make the base game and professions better….then this is what comes of it.
 

I don’t understand this normalized nerfing of every spec, with little to no buffs or positive things to look forward to. Stop doing massive changes on things that have been the same way for years.
 

Nobody wants to have to look at these updates dreading what horrible change you’ve made to their favorite class. Please rework how you try improving professions cause this is not it. 

[RamzaWolf.9084]

I dont know man, but this balance update notes preview looks far more awful than any others in the past.
I'm already liking my current Scrapper, please don't make it even more less enjoyable.
and wtf with the Scourge, I rather not trade the changes for alacrity.

[Myror.7521]

@PseudoOAlias.4279 okay let me say it like this: its the over all least used thing of all 3 Options so changing it is not as bad as it would be while one of the other 2 ^^. I dont mind other playstyles if its Just fun Go for it. All I Just wanted to say was it was the best "trait to Change" Option they get of all 3 cause. If they touched Immortal Dragon they would have killed a realy Solid solo Open World build on the other hand if they touched Unyielding Dragon they would have killed Meta instanced Bladesworn and PvP Bladesworn at the Same time. I gues the change was Just the "Not too hard hurt" one ^^

Edited June 11, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Myror.7521]

@HonesltlyX.7164 your wrong sir. Or at least a Bit. GS will be still worth it using on Berserker. The only difference in at least instanced gameplay will be that its Just a 5 seconds Loop instead of a 7+ Seconds one. You could see it like a faster dps Rotation. Tho in Open World or better Said as long as you Camp on Greatsword longer than 5 Seconds it is indeed a nerf. Out side of this the Skill itself will not only fit better to the "big fast burst" theme Berserker runs but also though PvP where you could get your Channel skills eziliy get interrupted. 

 

Though the Animation one Well okay thats Just Personal opinion i gues.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Myror.7521]

@Lacidrutt.3678 sometimes nerfs are better than buffs. Tho I would still prefer them hard Nerf every boon and conditions plus AoEs this Game (so the Spam goes away) has to offer and rework things entirely but gues that would be waaasyyyys to mutch Work.... sadly

 

[GoldSilva.8950]

@Myror.7521

You actually know people who run [Immortal Dragon]?? I'm open to being wrong here but:

personally I just caught up but to quote my friend: "If these Daring Dragon changes go through I quit. It's literally the only build I'm enjoying rn." And I don't think he's wrong either. Could be less dramatic, but idk why ID can't do both especially if they nuke it's alac uptime for PvP or whatever.

Edit: Oh Jesus, I just saw the Arc Divider change too. ANet, wtf.

Edited June 11, 2023 by GoldSilva.8950
arc divider

[doc.9162]

hi was hoping for a viable alac willbender?.. its still not used by anyone in group content.

i switched from guard to engineer for the utility of having any role on demand, and fell in love with scrapper, i have noticed an increasing number of scrappers in my daily fractals, despite them being middling dps, though you can get some very good dps out of it, i love that damage = barrier, makes my scrapper super tanky in fractals, but blasting combo fields to generate quickness? i dunno.. sounds like something you guys would try 5 years ago.... not sure why you even wanted to change scrapper so drastically? it works! its fun, and it isn't over powered, your a balancing team right? just seems like your creating work for yourselves. cause scrapper doesn't need balancing.

 

you have plenty of other builds that need your attention.

[Mewsha.3561]

I really dislike these Scourge changes.

Why are you removing boon corruption? You've essentially scrubbed Boonstrip Scourge from WvW with that change alone. Does this mean you're going to address the issue with boons in WvW? That is such a strange and confusing change because boon corruption is something that should be a characteristic of Necro.

I also don't get the Heal Scourge change. Almost nobody plays it, but it sucks for those that do enjoy it and admittedly that's something unique to a class that can feel kind of samey across MMOs. I feel like if anything you should have leaned into making Heal Scourge a viable and balanced option instead of just kneecapping it.

I feel like you guys genuinely forgot that DPS Scourge is a thing, which is odd because that is a meta build that many people spent hours and hours gearing for, and it's just wiped out if these changes go through. Like, why?

I don't know Anet, if you have to sacrifice two good builds and one unique one for a mediocre alacrity support build that will not be enjoyable to play (F1 spam is already crazy on Scourge), it's just not worth it at that point. Who is going to want this in a group anyways? I'd go back to the drawing board on this one because this just isn't it.

[FirePowerr.1820]

I have no idea why, if you're determined to give each spec a "support boon" they don't make one Grandmaster in each class's core line [Give Boons On Class Mechanic Use] and just have those boons carry by which elite spec you have equipped.

That way we can stop sacrificing cool Grandmaster traits or play styles like [Feed From Corruption], [Daring Dragon], [Transfusion], etc. on the alter of "inclusion," balance them instead, we can maintain some semblance of class identity, it's easier to balance, people have choice, and LITERALLY EVERYONE WINS. 😂

Edited June 11, 2023 by FirePowerr.1820
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[Jeyy.5028]

I'm interested in these Scourge changes but I hope you're gonna compensate for the shades going from 20 to 8 seconds.

Also, taking out boon corruption is like taking out one of the themes of Necro. It's in the class identity to boon corrupt. Yes I get that boon strip is a part of it but it is not as affective as the latter. Please revert the decision to take out boon corrupt. 

 

Also Harb changes of vile vials? Really?? That's very lazy adding just 2 more stacks of vulnerability. PATHETIC change and it is as if you're going backwards. I welcome the overall CD reduction in PvP and WvW but what about PvE?

Overall, Necro changes seem to be going backwards and it's sort of bad. Obviously not as bad as Mesmer.

[Skye.4983]

Just wanted to chime in on the Mirage changes. All of the changes to the mirage are a straight up nerf, I am not sure what part of those changes are supposed to be about "balance". I know some people think that Mirage getting their second bar of endurance means that they can now dodge more. That just means that those people don't know how endurance recovery works. Mirages have and will continue to recover endurance at the same rate as every other profession (modified by vigor and some foods and sigil of energy), so mirages have ALWAYS have been able to dodge just as often as every other profession, they just lacked that extra bar of endurance to store any excess endurance between swapping to weapons with sigil of energy. So adding a second bar will not in any way change how often a mirage will be able to dodge, which means nerfs to condi duration caused by clones as a result of axe ambush skill is a pure nerf with no balancing behind it. Likewise, removing ability to dodge when immobilized or incapacitated is not "MIDDLE GROUND" it is a nerf, pure and simple. Anet is not actually giving mirage more dodges, because the base endurance regeneration rate has not changed and will not change.

[Vegeta.2563]

You nerf boon corruption on necro, you get rid of the much needed condition pressure in WvW.  Healing classes with cleanses will outperform and be way too strong.  They won't have to think as much when it comes to condition cleanse as there won't nearly be half as much.  Support Scrapper itself has already fallen out of meta and isn't used as much anymore, and since there isn't as many scrappers.. it's even less condition to boon conversion. Necro felt more useful after that change because it wasn't fighting an uphill battle trying to keep up with cleanses.  Now it's going to be impossible to keep any type of condition pressure without them being instantly cleansed off.

What is the whole purpose of Necro after this update?  I've always known necro to be boon corruptor, not boon remover.  Do I just become an alacrity slave?