Just rework Bladesworn

[Zekent.3652]

Daring Dragon change was weird, this specs lacks in fluidity, its auto attacks are somehow worse, it's too stationary, feels unfinished, make pistol a real ranged weapon and not just a replacement for axe offhand in PvE. Just let devs finish this spec design.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

If they actually cared about Warrior and given us the support spec we needed, then we would not even be in this mess. 

[Dahkeus.8243]

Dude, Bladesworn is awesome.  Daring Dragon Dragon has never been a good trait and balance for competitive has had its ups and downs, but it's good as it is.

In PvE, I love the rotation.  It has a great flow and big burst.  PvP, I can't speak much to.  WvW roaming, it's really solid right now and largely underestimated.  Gun saber attacks are slow, but the utility on them is actually pretty great now.  Same with pistol giving aegis.  It's one of the most unique playstyles for the warrior profession.

[felix.2386]

bladesworn is definitely the pinnacle of warrior clunkiness

or the incarnation of all warrior clunkiness

[felix.2386]

DT 2 still bugs out more then it should

DT 3 misses way too much with a super weird hitbox

entering DT and exiting DT without casting DT feels unresponsive, often you are stuck when you try to exist.

explosion on gunsaber 2 doesn't trigger some times.

all projectile has weird hitbox and misses randomly.

and instead of bullets, those things look like throw rocks with the projectile speed and animation

Edited June 14, 2023 by felix.2386

[Myror.7521]

@Dahkeus.8243 not gonna lie it totaly makes fun to Play in Open World and maybe also raids. But aside this in every other mode it feels clunky and the only reason why it is Playable rn is Just its heals in Comb with Aegis and projectile hate. You simply win most battles cause they can't Hit ya (Aegis/Projectile hate Spam) plus you gain tons of healing (mendings or Bladestorm heal + might makes right or Adrenalin health + Vigorous Shouts + mending Might) means you just outsustain every class by Press shouts and Heal on CD plus some dodges in Comb with mediocre DMG output. In other words the fact thats its Just good means not that its good mechanics wise. Just simply the worst designed spec of all 3 warr Specs ^^

Edited June 15, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Dahkeus.8243]

1 minute ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 not gonna lie it totaly makes fun to Play in Open World and maybe also raids. But aside this in every other mode it feels clunky and the only reason why it is Playable rn is Just its heals in Comb with Aegis and projectile hate. You simply win most battles cause they can't Hit ya (Aegis/Projectile hate Spam) plus you gain tons of healing (mendings or Spellbrakers heal + might makes right or Adrenalin health + Vigorous Shouts + mending Might) means you just outsustain every class by Press shouts and Heal on CD plus some dodges in Comb with mediocre DMG output. In other words the fact thats its Just good means not that its good mechanics wise. Just simply the worst designed spec of all 3 warr Specs ^^

Hard disagree.  It's one of the most enjoyable roaming specs I've played in a long time.  Now, the reflect on block carries a lot of that because of how Shield Master works with Aegis, but the ranged aspect of gun saber has given a lot of depth to bladesworn in competitive. 

Saying things like "you just win because they can't hit you", well...duh?  That applies to a ton of classes/builds.  Not sure what build you're running that takes mending, shouts and such, but it's not what I've run.  And it's not the performance of the build that makes it fun either.  It has active defense from activating aegis when you need it and great flow of movement to dip in and out of melee for different tactics. 

Dragon slash is also just fun in competitive since you get into mind games with your opponent on whether they should blow dodges/defense and when they should do so vs how long you decide to charge your attack.

If you don't like it, that's fine.  There's some popular builds I don't enjoy either, but just know that your opinion isn't universal.

[Dahkeus.8243]

32 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

DT 2 still bugs out more then it should

DT 3 misses way too much with a super weird hitbox

entering DT and exiting DT without casting DT feels unresponsive, often you are stuck when you try to exist.

explosion on gunsaber 2 doesn't trigger some times.

all projectile has weird hitbox and misses randomly.

and instead of bullets, those things look like throw rocks with the projectile speed and animation

What you are describing are bugs, not a need to rework and entire elite spec, nor would I call this "clunkiness".  Also, half of what you are describing are tied to projectiles in all of GW2 being buggy. 

P.s. You missed the major one I would agree on you with: You can't stow weapon on gunsaber.  They need to make that happen.

[Myror.7521]

@Dahkeus.8243 Well in other harder words. I don't like it cause its hard casuals friendly cause of the said above things. Also the pretty comon Builds that see play are something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgEcEWWK7ipxwYu4wN1GLB-zZILjGLgSTAVHAA

or just for Defence 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAcqlJwuYtMMWJeKTtxSA-zZIPjGlAZqAc8AA

Keep in mind u could actually sweap things Here. You could Play bullsrush or complete without shouts ^^

 

 

 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I actually really like, Bladesworn, although I do agree it feels pretty clunky. I don't think the spec needs a full redesign, though; it needs changes to smooth out its gameplay. For example, reduce cast time for artillery slash and blooming fire. Don't put DT on full CD when it gets interrupted. Add Stability to triggerguard. Make it so you can't jump over DS attacks. Make Ds Reach a proper projectile that doesn't jump over targets. Etc.

The skeleton is there, and it's a good one. Just needs some love to flesh it out.

[Zekent.3652]

Just found this video, seems pretty good for this topic:
 

 

[Napo.1230]

I'd trade it all..........for dual wield pistols, seriously why can't we dual wield wasn't that our thing?

Trying to roam in wvw I just can't put my finger on it but I can't make it work. If it hit like a truck I'd accept the clunkiness but when my burst is not dodged or jumped over sometimes I hit for a few thousand and at that point axe 2 is quicker and I sacrifice no mobility.

I've just accepted that I'm more zerker/SB than stationary samurai

[felix.2386]

4 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

What you are describing are bugs, not a need to rework and entire elite spec, nor would I call this "clunkiness".  Also, half of what you are describing are tied to projectiles in all of GW2 being buggy. 

P.s. You missed the major one I would agree on you with: You can't stow weapon on gunsaber.  They need to make that happen.

Those are not bugs lol, it's like rush never hit, why? Is it bugs? No it's how Mmo works and the skill function that made rush only hit 50% of the times.

Why swoop hit 80-90% of the timed and rush only 50%? Why teleport/instant cast skills hit 90% of the times?

Projectile misses randomly, Because of how extremely slow the projectiles/casting are and with mmo delays, it just misses randomly.

DT 3 the same thing with extremely weird pathing.

And entering/existing dt comes from huge after casts

None of these are bugs except maybe dt2.

It's all because how the skill functions. The longer the projectile that stays in travel, the more it will misses, same for movement skill, Which is why they can't fix rush after 10 years and instant castd and teleport are so much more reliable, or just shorter cast time in general.

If they literally speed up rush by 20%, you will see hit rate increase by at least 10%, but having faster cast time? On warrior? Without 1 second after cast？Nop lol

Edited June 14, 2023 by felix.2386

[oscuro.9720]

I’ve had some fun on Bladesworn early on in EOD, especially roaming in wvw. However, it gets very old very quickly imo. And it’s the most boring thing to fight in the game. So should/do they rework it? Idk. There’s definitely cooler ways to implement the same skills, like having Dragon Slash stance entered after a dodge roll or movement skill, but I don’t think such reworks are realistic. 

[Dahkeus.8243]

9 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 Well in other harder words. I don't like it cause its hard casuals friendly cause of the said above things. Also the pretty comon Builds that see play are something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgEcEWWK7ipxwYu4wN1GLB-zZILjGLgSTAVHAA

or just for Defence 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAcqlJwuYtMMWJeKTtxSA-zZIPjGlAZqAc8AA

Keep in mind u could actually sweap things Here. You could Play bullsrush or complete without shouts ^^

 

 

 

Those are SPvP builds.  I’m not commenting on that game mode.  My perspective is WvW for competitive game mode builds.

 

6 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

Those are not bugs lol, it's like rush never hit, why? Is it bugs? No it's how Mmo works and the skill function that made rush only hit 50% of the times.

Why swoop hit 80-90% of the timed and rush only 50%? Why teleport/instant cast skills hit 90% of the times?

Projectile misses randomly, Because of how extremely slow the projectiles/casting are and with mmo delays, it just misses randomly.

DT 3 the same thing with extremely weird pathing.

And entering/existing dt comes from huge after casts

None of these are bugs except maybe dt2.

It's all because how the skill functions. The longer the projectile that stays in travel, the more it will misses, same for movement skill, Which is why they can't fix rush after 10 years and instant castd and teleport are so much more reliable, or just shorter cast time in general.

If they literally speed up rush by 20%, you will see hit rate increase by at least 10%, but having faster cast time? On warrior? Without 1 second after cast？Nop lol

If it doesn’t function as intended, it’s a bug.  These skills  are intended to hit, but sometimes don’t.  That’s called a bug.

[Ferus.3165]

14 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 not gonna lie it totaly makes fun to Play in Open World and maybe also raids. But aside this in every other mode it feels clunky and the only reason why it is Playable rn is Just its heals in Comb with Aegis and projectile hate. You simply win most battles cause they can't Hit ya (Aegis/Projectile hate Spam) plus you gain tons of healing (mendings or Spellbrakers heal + might makes right or Adrenalin health + Vigorous Shouts + mending Might) means you just outsustain every class by Press shouts and Heal on CD plus some dodges in Comb with mediocre DMG output. In other words the fact thats its Just good means not that its good mechanics wise. Just simply the worst designed spec of all 3 warr Specs ^^

i also like to play bladesworn with spellbreakers heal

[Myror.7521]

@Ferus.3165 whoops i meant of course Bladesworn heal xd

[Myror.7521]

@Dahkeus.8243 lol yea but there is just near no difference. In WvW might be more Open field plus more boon spam but the build will nearly be the same. Might be other Rune sigill and of course maybe even more defence ^^ what i just meant by you could Play other variant but it will make no real difference its Just still carried by heal and Aegis spam

Edited June 15, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Dahkeus.8243]

11 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 lol yea but there is just near no difference. In WvW might be more Open field plus more boon spam but the build will nearly be the same. Might be other Rune sigill and of course maybe even more defence ^^ what i just meant by you could Play other variant but it will make no real difference its Just still carried by heal and Aegis spam

"Carried by" 

Sure, thieves get "carried by" their ability to stealth and evade all the time.  Necros get "carried by" their ability to tank damage.  Spellbreakers get "carried by" their ability to counter attack.  Guardians get "carried by" their blocks. 

You're throwing out an argument that's charged with more rhetoric than sense.

The heal Bladesworn is no different than any other warrior build and if you're spamming aegis, you're doing it wrong.  Aegis blocks one attack unless you take defense for the reflects, in which case you want to be kiting at range to keep the reflect property up so that a melee attack doesn't knock it out.  If you're in melee, you want to use it against big single attacks.  If you just use it whenever, it's not much of a help.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Dahkeus.8243

[oscuro.9720]

4 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

"Carried by" 

Sure, thieves get "carried by" their ability to stealth and evade all the time.  Necros get "carried by" their ability to tank damage.  Spellbreakers get "carried by" their ability to counter attack.  Guardians get "carried by" their blocks. 

You're throwing out an argument that's charged with more rhetoric than sense.

The heal Bladesworn is no different than any other warrior build and if you're spamming aegis, you're doing it wrong.  Aegis blocks one attack unless you take defense for the reflects, in which case you want to be kiting at range to keep the reflect property up so that a melee attack doesn't knock it out.  If you're in melee, you want to use it against big single attacks.  If you just use it whenever, it's not much of a help.

Allow me to push back on this a bit;

The other things you mentioned about getting “carried by” a mechanic are different (except maybe necrosis shroud). The problem with bladesworn is that the underlying mechanics are highly mediocre, but allow for a glut of healing (the aegis is not a problem) that is essentially button spam with little counter play. It’s very passive and so powerful it can pave over the mistakes you make and generally allows players to play very lazily and get away with it. In this sense, it very much is “carried” (I don’t like the term tbh) by its ridiculous volume of heals.

Thief dodgers still have to be timed. Guardian blocks still have to be timed. Full Counter has to be timed. There’s always play and counter play. Also these mechanics are all in a less powerful state than bladesworn heals presently are.

And yes, all Warrior builds generally have strong healing. Bladesworn is on a different level and for an understandable reason; if you tone down the heals, the spec is dead because everything beneath those heals has gaping holes in competitive modes.

[Zekent.3652]

Since most of BSW enjoyers only says "my spec good because" like it's a spec without problems.

I'll just post some points to improve BSW's bad spects:

>Let it be able to move in DT.
>Being able to jump in DT.
>Being able to dodge in DT, basically, just like Dead Eye.
>Allow it to cancel DT with F2.
>Speed up autos.
>Being able to stow.
>Increase DT 5 range.
>Make pistol OH a real ranged weapon instead of just a replacer for axe OH on PvE.

They said "no more tradeoffs" and they just made autos slower as soon as autos got projectiles.