[EDIT: video added] Why not add aerial attack skill for BOTH flying mounts?

[reiwyvern.8167]

EDIT2: Thanks to Boogie Schmerzbold and Adnubb, we now have actual gameplay footage as proof that combat on a griffon is not only possible, but actually doable (in spite of worries on reddit about the griffon being too fast). These are done using various existing special action bundle skills already in the game.

 

 

With a little animation polish and refinement to make casting easier and more streamlined, this can potentially be really, really cool.

 

EDIT: added one more point to address another concern

 

Dear Devs,

If you're going to add aerial attack skills for the skyscale, would you consider making it for BOTH of your flying mounts? Because that would be amaaazing

Just imagine, having two different flavors of aerial combat: one as attack helicopters and the other as fighter jets!

 

"But griffons can't breath fire, that's a dragon thing"

Here's some possible, lore-friendly ways to implement it:

- wind blasts / electricity bolts / magic orbs (like the armored feathered raptor idle animation)

- barrage of feather projectiles

- rider wielding lances (think warclaw) / rider wielding crossbows

- if we can strap giant cannons on turtles, we can strap tiny cannons on griffons

 

"But the griffon isn't going to be readily available to everyone, unlike the skyscale is going to be"

If the attack ability that the griffon gets is exactly the same as the skyscale's, then no one is really missing out if they don't have a griffon. In fact I'd argue that the skyscale would be easier to use the new attack ability on, since it can actually hover (and give you more time to aim).

If this is still a concern, then just put the aerial attack ability for the griffon behind a collection unlockable mastery line, like the skimmer's 'Skimming the Depths' mastery line. We really don't mind, having more to unlock and do on the griffon would be amazing, especially since there has not been any new Griffon Adventures added since LW4. 

 

"But we want the skyscale's ability to be unique"

If so, consider maybe giving the griffon something else other than aerial attack abilities. Perhaps aerial support? 

- perhaps flying close to allies while retaining the flap-dive speed will grant boons/heals/rejuvenation

- perhaps flying close to enemies while retaining the flap-dive speed can knockback/interrupt enemies

That, or just give us a nerfed version of whatever you're giving the skyscale and with a different color/effect animation. Just give us something on the griffon, anything, please

 

"But the griffon is too fast! You won't be able to hit your target"

Actually, if the attack is one of those 'cast in a cone direction in front of you' attacks, or the 'hold button to cast/drop/spray as you pass by' attacks, that won't be an issue at all.

Visual examples:

• cast as cone shape in front of you
• hold to leave trail of AOE
• hold to spray projectiles
• hold to drop bombs
• hold to drop healing

Not to mention we already have similar style mechanics in the game right now (think some of the warhorn skills, flamethrower, heal guns, and even the turtle cannons has 'hold to unload').

In fact, some of the player base themselves has long since invented the 'griffon tag' mini game using the call target system, which actually requires them to aim a tiny crosshair in the middle of their screen on their target, and fly within a certain range of distance. These are players riding their griffons at full speeds while aiming at another griffon going at full speeds. Even if these are pro-level griffon riders, I think you can still have a little faith in us that the average player can handle hitting a slow moving NPC that's hoving in the air or on the ground, using a cone, spray or drop attack. And besides, the skyscale will still be there for those of us who don't feel like doing that 😛

 

"Why do you want this so bad?"

You have two really amazing flying mounts in this game. You're adding an aerial combat themed expansion. You're leaving out one of the only two flying mounts, and it's the one that's so iconic it's one of the reasons GW2 is considered to have the best mounts in the MMO scene.

Letting the griffons also have an aerial attack ability not only gives you more choice flavor, but also lore flavor. The griffon has actually been referenced by NPCs (even outside of the Griffon unlock collection) to have engaged in combat during war times, so why not make that a reality?

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by reiwyvern.8167

[Thy Weeping Willow.6851]

I would loveeee some type of aerial combat on griffon! The floaty orb magic would fit with the lore. It would be so much fun :D  certainly with the new upcomign wizard griffon skin 💜💜 

[Nilsibus.8132]

Hey hey, [Wing] member here, first of all: I absolutely love the decisions you made for giving the flying mounts some more love, and I am super excited for the expansion! And I very much agree with this,  a few things I would like to add here: For the ley line / updraft use on flying mounts, I would love to have an option to toggle that behaviour on or off - there are lots of really cool flight paths, especially in Heart of Thorns, where both ley lines and updrafts are present, and it would be very sad if the new abilites mess with those routes too much! 

[Ashen.2907]

Hope not.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

If fighting is going on in the air - fair game.

But I'm not excited to see squadrons of flying a-holes just bomb everyone and everything for free while guys on the ground are fighting honest fights face to face.

And no I'm not talking USA here..

[Wheezy.2846]

2 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

If fighting is going on in the air - fair game.

But I'm not excited to see squadrons of flying a-holes just bomb everyone and everything for free while guys on the ground are fighting honest fights face to face.

And no I'm not talking USA here..

But what if Tyrians need to bring true FREEDOM to the Skritt? How else could they possibly do that!?

Jokes aside, I'd assume an arial attack would either 1, have a cool down like seige turtle bombs, and/or 2, won't hit hard enough to finish things off as reliably as we can on the ground. I wouldn't think they'd want us to be able to just kill everything without engaging in combat proper, but you could like, snipe targets in the air for a world boss or something.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

13 minutes ago, Wheezy.2846 said:

But what if Tyrians need to bring true FREEDOM to the Skritt? How else could they possibly do that!?

Jokes aside, I'd assume an arial attack would either 1, have a cool down like seige turtle bombs, and/or 2, won't hit hard enough to finish things off as reliably as we can on the ground. I wouldn't think they'd want us to be able to just kill everything without engaging in combat proper, but you could like, snipe targets in the air for a world boss or something.

Honestly the thought of griffon squadron swooping in for some death from above while doing meta events is pretty darn fun.
Some players will love being airborn and getting things done while at it.

But as you rightfully mentioned - so long as it's not the superior solution. Air support is one thing. Everyone taking into the skies and nobody stayin on ground would be a boring disaster.

Perhabs our griffons and skyscales should be left alone (or given combat skills only in special maps), while old metas could be spiced up with npc griffons/skyscales with special skills for helping with the meta.
Kinda like enchanted armors in Tarir or Teq turets. Limited number, but can be manned by anyone who gets to them first and serve a big purpose without invalidating main attack group.

Heck not only would that spice things up but also make $$ for a-net. Just like with the lvl 10 raptor, base game players would get a taste of aerial mounts that can be gotten if they buy an xpac.

Edited June 28, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[reiwyvern.8167]

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

...while old metas could be spiced up with npc griffons/skyscales with special skills for helping with the meta.
Kinda like enchanted armors in Tarir or Teq turets. Limited number, but can be manned by anyone who gets to them first and serve a big purpose without invalidating main attack group.

Ooooooooh this would be so awesome! I'm all for rental griffs and skyscales available on old maps and being able to be used by anyone! New players (and even old ones who didn't bother to get the mounts) would then get to experience and potentially want to unlock one for themselve!

If they ever do this though, the rental griffons will need to be a max mastery unlocked version, since the one without any masteries is just pain to fly lol

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Hmmm, or counter with

- Griffon at top speed is constant evade/cannot be damaged
- Griffon on top speed passing enemies close will knock them down due to air displacement

They are desperately trying to make the skyscale more interesting. But I fear some changes might make other mounts (specially Springer) obsolete unless they buff them too.

[GriffInTheSky.3725]

9 hours ago, reiwyvern.8167 said:

so iconic it's one of the reasons GW2 is considered to have the best mounts in the MMO scene.

Seeing Griffon stunt videos on Youtube was the reason I bought GW2 ❤️

9 hours ago, reiwyvern.8167 said:

perhaps flying close to enemies while retaining the flap-dive speed can knockback/interrupt enemies

I want this, it's could be so hilarious! 😀 It would be new way of having fun with Griffon for sure.

9 hours ago, reiwyvern.8167 said:

if we can strap giant cannons on turtles, we can strap tiny cannons on griffons

I want this too! Armored Griffons sound awesome, and it would look good on certain skins. We still haven't got full metal Alloyed Griffon skin, and that one would look epic with tiny canons on wings and neck 🙂

I use Turtle mount surprisingly often during fights -I love ability to participate in mounted combat like this. Few times random players hopped into Turret operator seat, and we completed some event chains like this - without dismounting. During Dragonstorm meta, if I'm not on healer character and not using Medizooka while gliding, I'm on the open Turtle mount for the remaining time 😆 That's fun!

I also dream of Griffon's ability to fly on the side and do barrel roll in the air. Maybe these moves could be incorporated into some aerial attacks.

5 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Honestly the thought of griffon squadron swooping in for some death from above while doing meta events is pretty darn fun.
Some players will love being airborn and getting things done while at it.

I prefer to stay in gliding mode as much as possible during Soo-Won fight (I have gliding attacks unlocked), so staying on flying mount and doing damage to boss sounds great! I also equip Blazing Spear on Griffon during Death-Branded Shatterer fight in Jahai Bluffs - I can't manage to stay mounted for very long there, and with 15 seconds cooldown on that action I would rather be using my own abilities. Not very effective, but for a short time Griffon is war-steed during that event  😀

[Astralporing.1957]

16 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

If fighting is going on in the air - fair game.

But I'm not excited to see squadrons of flying a-holes just bomb everyone and everything for free while guys on the ground are fighting honest fights face to face.

And no I'm not talking USA here..

There's no problem that cannot be solved by thorough enough carpet bombing,

[Pifil.5193]

12 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

Hmmm, or counter with

- Griffon at top speed is constant evade/cannot be damaged
- Griffon on top speed passing enemies close will knock them down due to air displacement

They are desperately trying to make the skyscale more interesting. But I fear some changes might make other mounts (specially Springer) obsolete unless they buff them too.

And from a game mechanics point of view

- Griffon will attack a mob and quickly fly out of agro range and break combat this the enemy will have fully regenerated by the time you can turn around and fly back

- Griffon will at best get to do one attack each 10 or so seconds, possibly taking much longer, their damage will be terrible

There are very practical reasons they've limited this to the mount that hovers 

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Yeah you are right, but that first mechanic rule needs to be revised anyways. Mechanics like that needs to work both ways

For example: Why does a sniper in Drizzlewood get the freedom to ignore this (shoot you without a direct path) They can easely make it that this goes both ways.

So Drizzlewood Snipers can damage you while airborn (even at max speed, go figure) so you should be able to counter while airborn. Maybe a heavy damage shot but requiring some skill to land (not auto target) for example. Would be interesting.

If technically possible within the game is something I obviously do not know, but it would be interesting. 

Edit to ad: While posting I remember the Bloodstone Fen Areal Skills, they do damage that is not instantly reversed while airborn. That makes me believe it is possible to make an exception within the mechanics

Edited June 29, 2023 by Tuna Bandit.3786

[blp.3489]

22 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

But I'm not excited to see squadrons of flying a-holes just bomb everyone and everything for free while guys on the ground are fighting honest fights face to face.

It might be nice for the attacks to do something like adding a stack of a burning effect with a cap on stacks so that having more than a few skyscales attacking wouldn't do any extra damage and there would be an incentive for most players to dismount and fight on the ground.

[Cronospere.8143]

Since they are going to lift certain restrictions. Why limit your suggestion to griffon only and add a raptor bite attack, skimmer support skill and jackall blinding for example? 

[reiwyvern.8167]

2 hours ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

Since they are going to lift certain restrictions. Why limit your suggestion to griffon only and add a raptor bite attack, skimmer support skill and jackall blinding for example? 

Honestly I'd love that too! Though it's mostly the fact that this expansion is focused on aerial combat itself (being a floating island in the sky and an aerial combat map), so my thoughts went to both of the flying mounts in this game lol if mounted combat is well received this time, perhaps in the future they may consider it?