why nerf turtle slam? [Merged]

[Auras.8302]

it's actually kinda useless now

 

i was in a gyala delve map earlier where the meta very nearly failed (killed the boss with under a minute left) because too many people were sitting on turtles the whole meta.

 

think about that. the meta that was designed to be done on a turtle now can almost no longer be done on turtle because of the slam cooldown nerf.

 

please, unnerf turtle slam.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Auras.8302

[NeroVox.4351]

Honestly though. Why is nobody talking about the turtle. I benchmarked it on the golem last week and got 30k (wish I recorded it, but tbh I didn't expect them to nerf it) now I struggled to get the DPS to even register without arcDPS. My turtle rider build with full buffs is now weaker than my lv 30 mesmer autoattacking. Also it no longer does defiance break which is the whole point. 
I also think they did something to the health or defense. It still says it's the same, but there is no reason for a mordrem in brisban to knock me off the mount in one shot. Now I feel like an a$$ for grinding out the T3 upgrade for it and dropping money on those skins. 

[Auras.8302]

yeah. at a certain point, who cares if it was a "bug" or a "glitch'

 

it should be the feature. there's no world where the turtle, as a combat mount, is fun to ride when it has such an excruciatingly long cooldown between slams. and i even tried using my boosters in between cooldowns to apply burning to mobs. it just doesnt do near enough damage to justify the effort.

 

when i saw the leaked mount masteries allowing the skyscale to be mounted in combat, my first thought was it should be the turtle (because  i shouldnt need to explain why being able to mount a flying mount in combat may be a little OP in open world), but then i noticed the turtle slam was nerfed and i immediately stopped caring. turtle is useless

[NeroVox.4351]

4 minutes ago, Auras.8302 said:

when i saw the leaked mount masteries allowing the skyscale to be mounted in combat, my first thought was it should be the turtle (because  i shouldnt need to explain why being able to mount a flying mount in combat may be a little OP in open world), but then i noticed the turtle slam was nerfed and I immediately stopped caring. turtle is useless

I would not be surprised if the turtle got nerfed so they can emphasize the skyscale combat

[Auras.8302]

which is a baffling decision. im confident skyscale is the worst mount in the game. its slow, sluggish, latches onto everything. very unfun to fly. i much prefer griffon.

[Westenev.5289]

1 minute ago, Auras.8302 said:

which is a baffling decision. im confident skyscale is the worst mount in the game. its slow, sluggish, latches onto everything. very unfun to fly. i much prefer griffon.

 

I'd argue the most useless mounts in the game is probably the Springer, who has been basically outdone by the Skyscale in every way except the coinfarm in Amnoon. The way a friend described it to me was to think of the skyscale as a flying raptor rather than a VTOL aircraft - and that made the mount a lot more appealing for me.

 

But, yeah. I don't see why turtle needed nerfing, especially since it's the first "play together" content we've seen in awhile (we have a lot of "play alongside" content, but not a lot of play together).

[NeroVox.4351]

22 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

I'd argue the most useless mounts in the game is probably the Springer...

Not anymore. Now it is better at defiance break than the turtle, even when you account for waiting, remounting and slamming again it is more defiance break per second than the turtle.

[Sweetbread.3678]

45 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

I'd argue the most useless mounts in the game is probably the Springer, who has been basically outdone by the Skyscale in every way except the coinfarm in Amnoon. The way a friend described it to me was to think of the skyscale as a flying raptor rather than a VTOL aircraft - and that made the mount a lot more appealing for me.

Actually it's one of the best if you know how to jump cancel it. Dismount right before the jump goes off and it'll launch you into the air mountless. Makes it super easy to get height for a griffon dive, especially if you combo with the jadebot updraft.

[Auras.8302]

1 hour ago, Westenev.5289 said:

I'd argue the most useless mounts in the game is probably the Springer

before i unlocked skyscale springer was my least favorite mount. its annoying hopping cadence made it finnicky to precisely line up for a jump. it was especially frustrating in one of the jump puzzles i did that required springer(i think that jump puzzle was part of the skyscale collections, ironically). now that i have skyscale though i genuinely dislike it more.

 

but yeah, the turtle, i probably wont actually be piloting mine anymore, and i probably also will not be gunning in someones either because the turtle siege booster jade bot card is a sensory array, not a service chip (which is what turtle pilot booster is) and i will not be parting ways with my mount energy booster sensory array

Edited June 30, 2023 by Auras.8302

[Dante.1508]

5 hours ago, Auras.8302 said:

which is a baffling decision. im confident skyscale is the worst mount in the game. its slow, sluggish, latches onto everything. very unfun to fly. i much prefer griffon.

100% agree. 😍

[Balsa.3951]

i can tell u why. bcs they want add more dmg skills later.

[Tashigi.3159]

Bug or not, this mod made turtle actually fun. Bring it back please.

[Auras.8302]

all the people reacting "confused" on posts about disliking the skyscale, you're like Fry in futurama riding scooty puff jr.

 

skyscale is not a good mount

 

neither is turtle now tbh. it had a job that it did, and now it no longer does it.

[Sweetbread.3678]

2 hours ago, Auras.8302 said:

all the people reacting "confused" on posts about disliking the skyscale, you're like Fry in futurama riding scooty puff jr.

It really is weird. I just got a confused reaction for detailing how to do a Springer jump cancel, which is probably one of the most useful things in the entire game. I'm pretty convinced at this point that a large part of GW2's demographic is just dumb, lazy people that literally would be confused that anybody would expend the 2 brain cells to go 400mph on a griffon instead of just brain-dead autopiloting a 2mph Skyscale in every situation. Same reason Mechanist is so "popular".

[Astralporing.1957]

16 hours ago, NeroVox.4351 said:

I would not be surprised if the turtle got nerfed so they can emphasize the skyscale combat

Yes, i'm so sure turthes without that skill nerfed would have been way too useful on aerial map.

[Auras.8302]

4 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

It really is weird. I just got a confused reaction for detailing how to do a Springer jump cancel, which is probably one of the most useful things in the entire game. I'm pretty convinced at this point that a large part of GW2's demographic is just dumb, lazy people that literally would be confused that anybody would expend the 2 brain cells to go 400mph on a griffon instead of just brain-dead autopiloting a 2mph Skyscale in every situation. Same reason Mechanist is so "popular".

thats the general case with most mmos playerbase. synapses absolutely fried

[Dante.1508]

14 hours ago, Auras.8302 said:

all the people reacting "confused" on posts about disliking the skyscale, you're like Fry in futurama riding scooty puff jr.

 

skyscale is not a good mount

 

neither is turtle now tbh. it had a job that it did, and now it no longer does it.

Its good for certain occasions as are the rest of the mounts.. Nothing beats Griffon for speed of getting around.

[Tazer.2157]

Turtle slam is nerfed because the people in charge wants its user base to play the game a certain way. "Are you using the turtle instead of your weapon?" Nope, that's not allowed. NERF! And this is funny, because they have no problems giving us other ways to CC and heal (The portable waystation).

This is the same reason why the turtle is still not playable  in WvW, even a year after the EoD release. We have a few thinking GW2 is some ultra high level DOTA2 like E-sports game for MMOs and because of that balance is  prioritized  over enjoyment.  The sad truth is that the  game needs more features, but nooo we can't have a new mount in WvW or a new map in PvP, cause those additions might "ruin" the game.  

[Smoky.5348]

Pardon me, um, what's everyone talking about? No, really. What nerf even happened? Far as l can tell, the only change was you can move sooner after slamming?

Edited July 2, 2023 by Smoky.5348

[Linken.6345]

28 minutes ago, Smoky.5348 said:

Pardon me, um, what's everyone talking about? No, really. What nerf even happened? Far as l can tell, the only change was you can move sooner after slamming?

apparently 1 of the chips made the slam a 1 second cd.

It was not documented anywere tho so most likely a bug.

[Manpag.6421]

5 hours ago, Smoky.5348 said:

Pardon me, um, what's everyone talking about? No, really. What nerf even happened? Far as l can tell, the only change was you can move sooner after slamming?

This was what the Turtle Pilot Booster allowed you to do. People are unhappy because — intended or not — it was a huge QoL boost to the turtle, especially as this Jade Bot module came with a timed meta that has you breaking down at least 5 walls and 6 batteries with your siege turtle.

[Smoky.5348]

2 hours ago, Manpag.6421 said:

This was what the Turtle Pilot Booster allowed you to do. People are unhappy because — intended or not — it was a huge QoL boost to the turtle, especially as this Jade Bot module came with a timed meta that has you breaking down at least 5 walls and 6 batteries with your siege turtle.

What the hey? That's broken as heck! That's a bug fix, not a nerf. If siege turtle weren't so unpopular amongst event daily crowds, then it'd be literally impossible to tag mobs with that going on. Thankfully, it's been unpopular and the bug is now fixed.

I had a feeling there was a lot of hyperbole going on, so let me try to set a few things straight. If one thinks turtle damage feels weak to mobs, it's because EoD is HP bloated to heck. The slam is for burst and the jump burning is for sustain, you just gotta learn the pattern. But, you shouldn't go for burn sustain if you have a co-pilot, even if the burn stacks are doubled (because you ought to be running around to refuel ammo). As for getting knocked off easily, it's because the mount has a pitifully weak defiance bar; you can't afford to take hard CC, but it's not easy to avoid because you're a slow turtle. And when it comes to the EoD metas, I know enough that walls, etc. are to be shot at by the co-pilot while the rider tries to figure out a way to refuel ammo, be it strafing around like a mad man or running into a pushy barrier or simply slamming. Yes, that's all inconsistent and a bit illogical.

Anyone with a decent DPS can out-do the turtle's DPS, and if not, you at least feel like you're doing a lot more by default since you have more skills and movement options. That's dumb, but that's how it's currently meant to be designed: high burst damage, decent CC, low DPS. If the turtle meta is failing because too many people are on the turtle, then something's wrong with the meta or something's wrong with the people.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Smoky.5348

[Manpag.6421]

1 hour ago, Smoky.5348 said:

What the hey? That's broken as heck! That's a bug fix, not a nerf. If siege turtle weren't so unpopular amongst event daily crowds, then it'd be literally impossible to tag mobs with that going on. Thankfully, it's been unpopular and the bug is now fixed.

…

Anyone with a decent DPS can out-do the turtle's DPS, and if not, you at least feel like you're doing a lot more by default since you have more skills and movement options. That's dumb, but that's how it's currently meant to be designed: high burst damage, decent CC, low DPS. If the turtle meta is failing because too many people are on the turtle, then something's wrong with the meta or something's wrong with the people.

Aren’t those statements a bit of a contradiction? Either it’s broken, or it’s easy to out-DPS. And like you say, it’s not been popular. I can understand nerfing something if it’s rife and ruining other peoples’ fun, but given that few people actually like driving the turtle, it never really caught on.

1 hour ago, Smoky.5348 said:

The slam is for burst and the jump burning is for sustain, you just gotta learn the pattern. But, you shouldn't go for burn sustain if you have a co-pilot, even if the burn stacks are doubled (because you ought to be running around to refuel ammo).

I agree that this is the design, but the issue is actually that the Turtle Pilot Booster kind of discourages this. By making Slam generate 20/30/40% more ammo per hit, it encourages the pilot to use Slam as often as possible; in the time taken to reach a speed where you’re generating ammo at a decent rate, Slam will have recharged anyway (and in a combat situation, you probably don’t want to move too much if you want to be able to reliably hit targets with Slam). And I find people rarely even get in the turtle anyway even if told to, meaning the only way to make progress is chipping away with Slam. They should probably give the turtle some condition damage too if they want jets to be viable sustain, because it currently sets your condition damage to 0 when mounted, which impairs that a lot.

Also, the complimentary booster that would speed up these events — the Siege Booster — is bugged; if you have it and get in a turtle that already has (normal) ammo generated, you can’t shoot unless they dismount and you get in before they generate any ammo, which will now be the enhanced rounds.

Basically, if they want people to use the co-op, they need to fix the co-op before they take away the tools that allow you to do it efficiently without someone gunning. And/or make the pilot booster increase your acceleration by 20/30/40% instead, which would also compliment the jet efficiency better by giving you more ease/joy of movement while encouraging you to move more and indirectly increasing the ammo generation rate by letting you hit top speed faster. And if they want to keep the cooldown, maybe fix Slam so it doesn’t get negated by terrain half the time — there’s a difference between waiting 4s between attacks, and 4s between attempted attacks that do nothing despite having an enemy right in front of you.

 Don’t get me wrong, I love the turtle. It’s my main mount these days, and this doesn’t affect the actual mobility of it, I just enjoyed being actually impactful and also the choice between repeated attacks (high DPS but vulnerable) or infrequent attacks with lots of air time to evade 90% of attacks.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Smoky.5348 said:

What the hey? That's broken as heck! That's a bug fix, not a nerf. If siege turtle weren't so unpopular amongst event daily crowds, then it'd be literally impossible to tag mobs with that going on. Thankfully, it's been unpopular and the bug is now fixed.

Problem is, half of Gyala meta is dependant on masses on people being on turtles, and this bug was one of the reasons why it even worked. So, if they make turtle useless once again, they should redo those metas to not require the turtle.

[Manpag.6421]

10 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Problem is, half of Gyala meta is dependant on masses on people being on turtles, and this bug was one of the reasons why it even worked. So, if they make turtle useless once again, they should redo those metas to not require the turtle.

Or at least rebalance the other bits to allow for the extra time taken. Walls/gates used to take about 30s, now each can take a couple of minutes. There are 3 walls and 2 gates you need to destroy; at ~2 mins each, that’s a quarter of the time limit just getting into the objectives, and that’s not factoring in the 6 batteries (which aren’t as tough, but… 6 of them). The bosses aren’t bad, but the base captures take a ridiculously long time even with a large group; it seems like the capture bar doesn’t even start filling for quite a while. Improving that would at least make the time wasted sieging a little less painful.