What is the point of Bladeturn Requiem (F5) now?

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Pengu.7481 said:

yea i have to admit im roaming 90% of the time so dont have much knowlegde when it comes to zerg vs zerg.

i also agree that F5 isnt completely useless. but is by far the worst skill we have on our loadouts atm. so much so i removed keybind as to not press it by mistake. 

removing block was the right call, but leaving nothing in compensation was not

Yup I agree with that assessment

[Jun.7486]

Per today's update:

Bladeturn Requiem: Increased power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.3 in PvE and from 0.15 to 0.2 in WvW and PvP.

Nice!!!

Edited July 18, 2023 by Jun.7486

[Crowfang.8529]

This skill is still garbage in PvP. Nice.

[LordCanti.7124]

The update didn't make the skill better at all....

 

[Pie.2167]

Still garbage

[Leonidrex.5649]

• Bladeturn Requiem: Increased power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.3 in PvE and from 0.15 to 0.2 in WvW and PvP.
  POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOG
  this legit makes me want to go back into pvp again!
  oh wait, 5 dagger shatter does less damage then scepter auto from cata 🤡

[Kulvar.1239]

Maybe it could destroy projectiles?

[Voyant.1327]

Its there to free up a keybind & punish Mesmers for enjoying what little their class had.

[dead.7638]

Having to use the skill for aegis is a waste.   The skill in play has no use.   Even when I use it for just aegis and all other bladessongs are on cd I still question if I should have even used it.   This skill is NOT viable.   Should have left it alone, now you all get to rework it because you know wasting time is what anet is great at.

[dead.7638]

Or better yet, show the Mesmer community yet again, how little you care about the class.   And do nothing, we won’t be surprised.

[minimoi.8195]

At this point, just delete the skill it's pointless

[Mell.4873]

I kind of predicted more damage, at least I can use it in my Power Virtuoso PvE build.

[Jitters.9401]

On 7/15/2023 at 9:15 PM, Mell.4873 said:

removing block was the right call,

How was that the right call?

In wvw we see everything with the abilities to have countless evades/invulns/blocks except mesmer.

I made a druid to check it out... even my #1and #2 sword weapon skills are usable for escaping.... then the Staff #3 (is it 3 or 4?) is basically an escape reverse charge + heal. 

 

That block on F5 was nothing in compared to the other profession skills. Sure you can block, but you are still moving regular combat speed and not going to be able to leap/stealth/teleport/charge away like almost everything else can. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Jitters.9401

[Mell.4873]

51 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

How was that the right call?

In wvw we see everything with the abilities to have countless evades/invulns/blocks except mesmer.

I made a druid to check it out... even my #1and #2 sword weapon skills are usable for escaping.... then the Staff #3 (is it 3 or 4?) is basically an escape reverse charge + heal. 

 

That block on F5 was nothing in compared to the other profession skills. Sure you can block, but you are still moving regular combat speed and not going to be able to leap/stealth/teleport/charge away like almost everything else can. 

I have no idea where you got that post from. Can you give me more contexts, I can't really assess what I even said.

Anyway I agree with what you said so I don't know what I'm replying to. They should have not nerfed F5 but they did. 

[Pengu.7481]

13 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

How was that the right call?

In wvw we see everything with the abilities to have countless evades/invulns/blocks except mesmer.

I made a druid to check it out... even my #1and #2 sword weapon skills are usable for escaping.... then the Staff #3 (is it 3 or 4?) is basically an escape reverse charge + heal. 

 

That block on F5 was nothing in compared to the other profession skills. Sure you can block, but you are still moving regular combat speed and not going to be able to leap/stealth/teleport/charge away like almost everything else can. 

u should be quoting me and not @Mell.4873

it was the right call since the defense bloat on virtu was insane, now its alot more manageable to fight against. leaving nothing in return was however not. ive said that buffing the dmg 3 fold would be necessary to make me even consider putting a keybind on that thing again but i must agree with the other ppl here that buffing dmg will not be enough since we rly dont want to be in melee while being pure glass anyway. 

i would love to see it being reworked to some kind of mobility skill since thats where mesmer except for mirage is rly hurting

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, Pengu.7481 said:

u should be quoting me and not @Mell.4873

it was the right call since the defense bloat on virtu was insane, now its alot more manageable to fight against. leaving nothing in return was however not. ive said that buffing the dmg 3 fold would be necessary to make me even consider putting a keybind on that thing again but i must agree with the other ppl here that buffing dmg will not be enough since we rly dont want to be in melee while being pure glass anyway. 

i would love to see it being reworked to some kind of mobility skill since thats where mesmer except for mirage is rly hurting

I have no idea where he got that Quote from, I could not find it in this post.

Maybe it was the right call, it did seem like a lot of crying because people could not see the evade frames. I mean I could be beat Virtuosos fine even with 3 invulnerability skills.

[Pengu.7481]

2 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I have no idea where he got that Quote from, I could not find it in this post.

Maybe it was the right call, it did seem like a lot of crying because people could not see the evade frames. I mean I could be beat Virtuosos fine even with 3 invulnerability skills.

its from the last post on page one 🙂

the defense bloat was excessive, bandaid to "fix" virtu in competetive. with weps becomming unlocked i can see why they removed f5 block. but they rly need to figure out what to do with it now. leaving it as is would just be an insult

[Magizen.7842]

You mean "What is even the point of Virtuoso in sPvP?"? Honestly, specs like Mech, Virt, Shout/Tactics Bladesworn, and Signet Cata shouldn't be a thing in PvP unless they get a big rework to cater to PvP'ers. The truth is, nearly everyone hates Virt but Virt players themselves which is why Anet can get away with gutting the spec with nothing to give back in return. It's frustrating for sure but I would highly suggest rerolling to a different class at least only for sPvP. No one likes Virt and CmC knows it, just come back when they rework virt.

[Mell.4873]

55 minutes ago, Pengu.7481 said:

its from the last post on page one 🙂

the defense bloat was excessive, bandaid to "fix" virtu in competetive. with weps becomming unlocked i can see why they removed f5 block. but they rly need to figure out what to do with it now. leaving it as is would just be an insult

Ahhh I see, how did he mess that up. 

[Jitters.9401]

9 hours ago, Pengu.7481 said:

the defense bloat on virtu was insane, now its alot more manageable to fight against.

It has always been manageable to fight.  I have never had an issue fighting a Virtuoso whether on my non stealth thief, my Glass engineer, nor my own Virtuoso. If I fight and kill them well enough on 3 different toons then the issue is "YOU" not knowing how to play on 1 toon against a particular class.

Learn to play and stop calling for nerfs.

 

(1) There is no defense bloat. Virt does not have the cleaves as other professions do. Not even close. That's why it needs defensive abilities.  

Especially against thieves. The massively overpowered stealth mechanics makes a Virtuoso defense capabilities almost useless. 

Or a grenade engineer.  The #1 auto attack can even be thrown behind the engi as it is running away. A Virtuoso cannot do anything like that and has to face the target.  

Every bladesong also has cooldowns.  Very easy to work around that.

 

Here is something I did. Virt fires off blades. I may or may not evade/block depending how aggressive or not aggressive I am playing. I use an auto attack to knock down the aegis. Then something hard hitting. It is rather simple. I can do it on 3 toons. You should be able to do it on 1.

 

If the virt rapid fires all their blades then that is game over for them. They still have to stock blades. Remember that. 

 

But the issue is people not knowing how to fight so calling for nerfs.

How about we nerf the 20plus seconds an ele can get for protection. 

How about we nerf all the weapon abilities that allow someone to close or escape fights via charging?

How about we nerf the insane stealth thief classes have? 

Virtuoso has nothing in comparison so why take away its survival mechanics just because you cannot figure out how to fight one?   

But like I said... I can kill them on 3 toons.  Why can't you do it with just one? 

[Pengu.7481]

10 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

It has always been manageable to fight.  I have never had an issue fighting a Virtuoso whether on my non stealth thief, my Glass engineer, nor my own Virtuoso. If I fight and kill them well enough on 3 different toons then the issue is "YOU" not knowing how to play on 1 toon against a particular class.

Learn to play and stop calling for nerfs.

 

(1) There is no defense bloat. Virt does not have the cleaves as other professions do. Not even close. That's why it needs defensive abilities.  

Especially against thieves. The massively overpowered stealth mechanics makes a Virtuoso defense capabilities almost useless. 

Or a grenade engineer.  The #1 auto attack can even be thrown behind the engi as it is running away. A Virtuoso cannot do anything like that and has to face the target.  

Every bladesong also has cooldowns.  Very easy to work around that.

 

Here is something I did. Virt fires off blades. I may or may not evade/block depending how aggressive or not aggressive I am playing. I use an auto attack to knock down the aegis. Then something hard hitting. It is rather simple. I can do it on 3 toons. You should be able to do it on 1.

 

If the virt rapid fires all their blades then that is game over for them. They still have to stock blades. Remember that. 

 

But the issue is people not knowing how to fight so calling for nerfs.

How about we nerf the 20plus seconds an ele can get for protection. 

How about we nerf all the weapon abilities that allow someone to close or escape fights via charging?

How about we nerf the insane stealth thief classes have? 

Virtuoso has nothing in comparison so why take away its survival mechanics just because you cannot figure out how to fight one?   

But like I said... I can kill them on 3 toons.  Why can't you do it with just one? 

mate, ive played mesmer for 5 years, 5 of those years in pvp/wvw. since pve doesnt do it for me. only classes i couldnt beat on virtu when it was at its peak was rly good thieves. rest got rolled over with 0 problems.

it was overtuned, excessive. and with weapons being unlocked soon, they nipped the block bloat before it became stupid.

i call for nerfs when they are needed, even on classes i play. u can look in my post history and see its true. and i only play engi and mes.

you are right that virt doesnt have cleave, it does however have 1200 10k+ unblockable F1's , couple that with other weapon skills and u have enough burst to 100-0 a guy and invuln for the stomp.

i was winning 1v5's on cele virtu in wvw because of defender runes healing me for 1.5k everytime i blocked, and we blocked ALOT.

 

i would love for ele's to not spam prot for 20 sec 

or everyone getting mobility leaps and charges thrown at them 

or thieves perma stealth

saying virtuoso has nothing in comparison is however false, we can chain invuln up to 10 sec straight, we have stealth, and as much as i say we lack mobility (because we do compared to other classes) blink has saved my kitten more times than i can count, add the aegis spam and 1200 unblockable range burst on top of that i can see why ppl dislike fighting us. 

that does not mean that i agree with the F5 being left useless tho, we need proper compensation and 0.05 power coeef change is not even close to being good enough

Edited July 25, 2023 by Pengu.7481

[Varis.5467]

F5 is arguably the most purposeful shatter of the virtuoso alright - to remove the 5 obnoxious daggers floating above your head. 

[Jitters.9401]

2 hours ago, Pengu.7481 said:

saying virtuoso has nothing in comparison is however false, we can chain invuln up to 10 sec straight, we have stealth, and as much as i say we lack mobility (because we do compared to other classes) blink has saved my kitten more times than i can count, add the aegis spam and 1200 unblockable range burst on top of that i can see why ppl dislike fighting us. 

I had a long night of work so I will respond later.... but by what you wrote, I would say your experience of mesmer is more anecdotal via open world but not anything related to pvp/wvw.

[Pengu.7481]

2 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

I had a long night of work so I will respond later.... but by what you wrote, I would say your experience of mesmer is more anecdotal via open world but not anything related to pvp/wvw.

https://imgur.com/Ol871li

now please tell me again how my experience is more anecdotal to open world than anything pvp/wvw related

Edited July 25, 2023 by Pengu.7481

[Mell.4873]

On 7/25/2023 at 11:27 PM, Pengu.7481 said:

You are right that virt doesnt have cleave, it does however have 1200 10k+ unblockable F1's , couple that with other weapon skills and u have enough burst to 100-0 a guy and invuln for the stomp.

People underestimated how strong that is. If you disable them (they are inactive) you can increase your Damage by further 20% with Mental Anguish. 

I used to run around with my wife, and I would disable them while she one-shot them with F1. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Mell.4873