SotO's OW-leggy armor and future WvW-population

[Dayra.7405]

I wonder that no one so far opened a thread about this.

How will SotO's OW-leggy armor affect future WvW-population?

I think it's quite natural to assume, that most that will do OW-leggy armor will do so instead of WvW-leggy armor, as in my impression a lot people choose wvw only because they like Raids & PvP even less.

Clearly this has a positive effect like less semi-afk participation farmer on your server. But it also means. less enemies to kill, roamers loose their farming target, leading to much less participation in off-time in general. WvW will also loose a source of new players, that started as WvW as leggy farmer, but learned and liked WvW as a result.

What do you think? Will Wvw-Population (play hours) drop? And by how much? I expect an overal loss of 30-40% mainly in off-time.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[Bale.3851]

WVW specific rewards would maybe increase the overall population but leggy armor in OW really isnt the reason why wvw population is plumbling. Lack of content, bad balancing, lack of rewards and a stale meta are. Maybe if anet choses to change their approach on one of the four we will see a revival of wvw. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

I wonder that no one so far opened a thread about this.

How will SotO's OW-leggy armor affect future WvW-population?

I think it's quite natural to assume, that most that will do OW-leggy armor will do so instead of WvW-leggy armor, as in my impression a lot people choose wvw only because they like Raids & PvP even less.

Clearly this has a positive effect like less semi-afk participation farmer on your server. But it also means. less enemies to kill, roamers loose their farming target, leading to much less participation in off-time in general. WvW will also loose a source of new players, that started as WvW as leggy farmer, but learned and liked WvW as a result.

What do you think? Will Wvw-Population (play hours) drop? And by how much? I expect an overal loss of 30-40% mainly in off-time.

Since there are a couple of questions here, going to answer the questions that you directly ask, and then points on the poll. As people mentioned in other threads, we have an overall statement about OW Leggo gear but no details. So it's an unknown on how that will play out. For those that joined WvW for the gear, is that more or less time to go OW versus WvW? Not sure. I am out of WvW some right now to work on Vision and its a long journey compared to the two Conflux(es) since I do WvW and have means to get the rings by just playing my normal game mode. So for a player that does more OW they might be in the same situation where they already have means so it might be faster. If I as a WvW player main like the skins and want to get them just for the skins, it might again mean out of WvW longer if I want to go for them since I won't have the currency that is required for the gear. Mind you I am not saying that is an issue, just trying to show how time might impact the number of hours WvW is played when a player targets a goal in another play mode. I also admit, when I roam I don't see the connection to how roamers lose their targets under SotO? I can't speak for all roamers, but when roaming I am not out looking for people trying to go get their dailies or what I would consider people that might be farming for gear. Each of us will prioritize those targets differently though.

We also don't yet know if expansion or non-expansion changes like the WR system will be targets for the release. We have seen that occur in the past. Not saying I would count on that, but we have seen that sort of related activity occur in prior releases so the marketing side could say with the expansion you also get this free on the side though it wasn't a requirement with purchase. In the translated versions it was a pitched as value you to add in hype. That might also impact numbers in WvW in various ways.

So that comes to the poll and in particular the subtext. Are the questions directed at people joining WvW for just the gear? The subtext, to me, reads with some bias. Example I would say more if we get some WvW changes as in a new map and other QoL changes players bring up, but not expecting that, but not because of any reasons mentioned. Would say same, and yes do have leggo gear but would be same already since its the most played game mode for me. Could say less but not because reasons listed but may be that chasing something that they release that's non-WvW related. Only one I could say it wouldn't be is No more since the other game modes don't offer the same game feel. Each player will play WvW for their own reasons. That is a whole other vast topic which ranges from rewarding, to we just need one of those comfy jackets that hug you back. Good hunting!

[Junkpile.7439]

Why you would need many legendary armors anyways?

[TheGrimm.5624]

17 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Why you would need many legendary armors anyways?

Skins, never discount the games within the games, Fashion Wars 2 is a thing after all. It's like finishers. Finishing a player with a dirty sock on a stick is not the same as finishing them with a 'La, la, lala lala la' or any of the sPvP finishers you acquire. There are some great cross mode links that I think they under utilize. People like to chase goals in all game modes. Skins and finishers are good examples of that.  

Edited July 9, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
spelling

[ArchonWing.9480]

Probably irrelevant. Legendaries are overrated and a gold sink. The main engagement in WvW from non-WvWers is dailies because it requires little time and casuals generally have other responsibilities and/or games.  They do not have time to engage in such degenerate behavior like afking 6 hours. I can't even play more than 1-2 hours with some folks anymore because they have like spouses and children. When you compare quick and easy dailies that give you gold, as opposed to grinds that take away your gold, the answer becomes clearer.

The farm source, aka the people you see always in the game afk'ing,  has always been washed up  "veterans" that have been playing the game since day -3, but can't acutally do anything in WvW without falling over since all they do is whine about something but are too addicted to quit and delusional enough to think anything that kills them must be abusing something. Almost every server has a few; just look at team chat. This is why they spend their time mostly afk-- it's one of the rare occasions they're not on the floor.

Legendary Armor is not significant in the grand scheme of things. While weapons at least have very flashy skins, armors do not and the WvW skin isn't even a legendary skin. In addition they cannot be bought. They don't provide any more stats. The stat change makes very little sense since pve doesn't use many stats anyways and a few sets of ascended armor is cheaper. They require a massive laundry list of stuff instead of just buying it off the TP and there's so much account bound stuff.

For your average casual player that doesn't raid or do high fractals, I doubt they would care about ascended armor, much less legendary armor.

Therefore legendaries generally fall under the scope of serious players. Note that I didn't say good, just serious. But serious players would have probably gotten the pve one, joined a guild to help them get it, or simply farm enough gold to pay for carries. And other serious players would do some math and realize this nonsense is a waste of time.

So this leaves 3 types of clients for PvE Open World Legendary Armor:

1.) Normal, healthy, people who never cared about legendaries, that will now get it because it involves playing content they enjoy. These would never stay long in WvW anyways. You don't hear about these people because people don't care usually complain.

2.) Masochists that want the shiny just because, and will eventually get it. I respect that I guess.

2a.) A subset of 2 that will not get it, because they will find some reason to complain.  It has nothing to do with the game.

So don't worry, you'll still be able to torment 2a forever. But it's a small piece of a small piece. It just happens to be the most vocal.

BTW, I've quite happy for the new legendary armor, because it's good people can play the game in a way they enjoy. Key word is enjoy though lol.

Edited July 9, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

Most serious wvw players are not going to go after that armor over the wvw one, unless it's extra super easy in comparison, but I doubt it, I expect there will be long collections for it, like aurora and vision, although it may be slightly easier since it's making  6x3 gear pieces to make instead of 2 trinkets. Or it has a super fancy skin, might be on the level of wvw, but not animated one of the raids one I'm sure.

The pve crowd will go after it because most of them are not comfortable with wvw or pvp in the first place, but they will still have to play wvw for one conflux, or two if they don't raid either, and gift of battle for legendary weapons. The time they spend in wvw overall will drop, but conflux and gob is still there as a pull to get players to play wvw and maybe even like it after that trail period, to stay and keep playing wvw. That is of course if anet doesn't add another ring along with the armor to overworld too.

As for the roamers, miss out on their farming targets? lol /playssmallviolin, they'll just have to take their fotm spec and gank other actual roamers I guess. 🤭🍦

My question to anet is, what do they plan to give out in regards to armor after this? practically everyone will be running around in legendary gear in a year or two, little use for ascended(I'm sure weapons will still be highly used, would the new armor kill fractal play times too?), little need to farm and craft stat sets, this isn't a vertical progression game, sooooo.... what's next? what's the next improvement to farm for players other than masteries? just moar skins like the 3rd legendary weapon set has been getting? 🤔

[GalenWolffit.3842]

9 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

 roamers loose their farming target,

Griefers lose their griefing target

[ArchonWing.9480]

37 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

My question to anet is, what do they plan to give out in regards to armor after this? practically everyone will be running around in legendary gear in a year or two, little use for ascended(I'm sure weapons will still be highly used, would the new armor kill fractal play times too?), little need to farm and craft stat sets, this isn't a vertical progression game, sooooo.... what's next? what's the next improvement to farm for players other than masteries? just moar skins like the 3rd legendary weapon set has been getting?

The new Legendary Armor may not be a walk into the park, if it's on par with any other legendary collection in OW. Unless there's no mat cost attached to them, most people will still not bother.

Armor has been such a point of contention, that there is really no need to bother with it anymore

They still have legendary jewelry to play around with; maybe extra PvE ring or WvW earrings.

Legendary Aquabreather!

Legendary Infusions that can swap stats and have both agony/wvw.

Or maybe they could give us a functional game mode. But that's even further out there.

Edited July 9, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

3 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

The new Legendary Armor may not be a walk into the park, if it's on par with any other legendary collection in OW.

Armor has been such a point of contention, that there is really no need to bother with it anymore

They still have legendary jewelry to play around with; maybe extra PvE ring or WvW earrings.

Legendary Aquabreather!

Legendary Infusions that can swap stats and have both agony/wvw.

Or maybe they could give us a functional game mode. But that's even further out there.

Waiting for them to add the accessories and amulet to wvw, was hoping it was going to be with the new wvw rewards last month, not some ultra rare useless infusion... seriously what a waste of a reward update, haven't bought anything off that vendor since day one, not gonna waste tickets when I'm holding out for the last three wvw legendary pieces.

To be honest I'm surprised legendary aqua breather wasn't introduced in eod along with boats and fishing.

Legendary infusions... ok that's really pushing it for +5 stats that's already cheap to get, and pve side would be expensive as kitten, no thanks. 🤭

Interesting note, the wiki hasn't been updated on the cost of the wvw infusions with the new emblem cost from Dugan. Wvw the forgotten mode. 🤭

[Dayra.7405]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Interesting note, the wiki hasn't been updated on the cost of the wvw infusions with the new emblem cost from Dugan. Wvw the forgotten mode. 🤭

The wiki is an community effort (not ANets), probably not many WvW-playet in it. Just update it, if you see a mistake.

[GolgoXIII.8536]

Xenesisll, I would have to disagree with you with time taken for the OW legendary armour(s) they will be as long to get as the WvW armour but more likely as fast as the Raid armour, and if it is the secondary it is lightyears faster to get then than the wvw leggo. I am going to bet that it probably like the raid armour times than anything else. tbh with wvw as to the op I do believe that it will be affected by the ow leggo armour as to how much you will have to wait and see.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

Im going to play WvW because I want to.
I don't even have Leggy WvW armor, its just another side project to me that completes itself as my account builds up to other leggies.

None of these options fit me.
And the assumption is that WvW population will drop by at least 33% of something...whereas most PvE GoB farmers don't even move to attack or defend, they don't exist to me.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, GolgoXIII.8536 said:

Xenesisll, I would have to disagree with you with time taken for the OW legendary armour(s) they will be as long to get as the WvW armour but more likely as fast as the Raid armour, and if it is the secondary it is lightyears faster to get then than the wvw leggo. I am going to bet that it probably like the raid armour times than anything else. tbh with wvw as to the op I do believe that it will be affected by the ow leggo armour as to how much you will have to wait and see.

Could go either way tbh, it depends on whatever active collections and time gates they put into it. Wvw was heavily time gated with tickets and memories per week because it doesn't require much effort to maintain participation, raids on the other hand requires you to be much more active. Raid armor takes 5-12 weeks depending if you do strikes as well, wvw requires 19-25 weeks depending on how shiny you want the armor. OW armor could be in between or the same as wvw, maybe they'll even put on a fancy skin on it to sell the expansion to people who already have legendaries. 🤷‍♂️

[GolgoXIII.8536]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Could go either way tbh, it depends on whatever active collections and time gates they put into it. Wvw was heavily time gated with tickets and memories per week because it doesn't require much effort to maintain participation, raids on the other hand requires you to be much more active. Raid armor takes 5-12 weeks depending if you do strikes as well, wvw requires 19-25 weeks depending on how shiny you want the armor. OW armor could be in between or the same as wvw, maybe they'll even put on a fancy skin on it to sell the expansion to people who already have legendaries. 🤷‍♂️

I would agree to a certain extent with the raid armour but you do have to put a fair amount of time into wvw to be able to get all the tickets to purchase the the wvw leggo armour, I don't believe it is a small amount of time to invest in wvw to get the armours. Because it is not dependant on your participation in wvw it is just how much time you are willing to invest and tbh I don't think you are rewarded for your effort in wvw/pvp you are just forced to spend x amount of time in the game. Unlike with Raiding you are rewarded for your effort because if you can complete the raids in a fast efficent way you can do those and then you are able to do other things in the game to split up your time and try different things. So I think the WvW and PvP should pretty much be the same as the Raid and probably the new OW, and that is the effort you spend on trying to get it not the time you spend on trying to get it. And one way you could speed up the way to get the WvW armour, you perhaps use the emblems of the Conqueror and the Emblems of the Avenger to purchase skirmish claim tickets as you can only get them by actually participating in WvW, that might actually stop people actually afking their way to "victory" (getting the leggo armour), it probably would encourge people to actually participate. You might even have to limit the amout of those emblems you can turn in per week (depending on how many tickets you get per emblem)

This is a lil off the topic but I don't see why they can't just put the skins (for people that have gotten leggo armour) in achievements required to be done to get the skins for the other leggo's. I.E the raid armour, but you would have to still raid to get the achievements to open said armour skin. You would still have to wvw to get the achievments to get the wvw armour (though to be brutally honest the wvw/pvp armour is rubbish looking imo) and so on for the skins

Edited July 10, 2023 by GolgoXIII.8536
adding more information

[XenesisII.1540]

18 minutes ago, GolgoXIII.8536 said:

stuff

Well good luck with that, I'm not getting into another ticket discussion.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I'm already casual enough that I'm unlikely to get legendary armor from WvW.