I still dislike the tome rework.

[Raykkaiz.6173]

Title. I don't like Tomes having no cooldown. I don't like that there's absolutely 0 commitement to them. I don't like internal cooldowns. I don't like the activation bonus being irrelevant. I don't like Weighty Terms. I don't like how every other support class gets their kit overloaded because of Firebrand existance.

P.S. Radiant Fire still sucks
P.S.2 What's all about the mantras design going back and forth. Just let people choose if they want to recharge them or not via a trait or something. 

Spoiler

I just wanted to rant a bit. Have a good day.

[otto.5684]

Many may not agree, I did not see any issue of how tomes worked before. There where already significant drawbacks. A nerf to specific skills, in some game modes, was all what was needed. Instead of this disjointed dysfunction cluster kitten. And honestly, beside nerfing dps FB, in most game modes, what did it achieve?

[cat.8975]

Barring reverting the tome changes entirely, I'd like them to change Resolve 4+5 and Courage 3+4+5 to only use a single page instead of two. PvE split it and give them longer cooldowns, I just want that utility back. Two pages is just so restrictive when you're playing a hybrid build that focuses on both doing damage and providing group support (cele).

[Hotride.2187]

Should've kept the old tomes and let you pick one with the GM trait (potentially balancing the CDs). The current way only makes hfb stronger and keeps cfb/qcfb support capabilities mostly like they were before... you just sacrifice some DPS; but you are not on the best DPS build anyway. So what was the point of the rework?

[Spucke.4163]

The rework was meant to make firebrand more viable for WvW/PvP. In general you got more situational utility choices without waiting for long cooldowns which is pretty good for PvE too. Page managment has to be learned but once you know how it works, it's pretty fun.

[zealex.9410]

I prefered when tomes had cds and rotations to them, that being said the gameplay for heal fb now is better so theres some conflict here.

However, either itteration shows us the same issue, which is that fb having acess to all 3 tomes at all times is just not healthy for the game. Id rather they tied each tome to a gm trait and then made each tome feel fun to use. Like idk, give us back the old f1 rotation for dps fb or allow heal or utility (maybe not the utility tome) fb the go in and out playstyle of current fb.

After all the itteration and buffs fb is back to being busted, something that will never change so long as you get free access to 3 tomes worth of skills.

Edited July 15, 2023 by zealex.9410

[Phyrak.7260]

Fair chance of me being an oddball here;

Back in the day when the tomes were elite skills - the feeling of taking out a hefty book to deal damages with its pages was an incredible fantasy.

I kinda hope they bring back that big physical style of animation/book from the old elite skill and let us camp in said book.

A particular violent librarian to say the least 

Such are my dreams at least.

Just make a grandmaster trait about it.

Something like:

If you're in book X for Y seconds, all pages from other times apply to your current tome and page reload time is reduced by Z.

Tome goes on cool down for C seconds if stowed.

 

Give the tomes a little more range in some regard to move them from being near melee weapon.

You're supposed to be throwing the book at your enemies - not beating them with it!

[rotten.9753]

22 hours ago, cat.8975 said:

Barring reverting the tome changes entirely, I'd like them to change Resolve 4+5 and Courage 3+4+5 to only use a single page instead of two. PvE split it and give them longer cooldowns, I just want that utility back. Two pages is just so restrictive when you're playing a hybrid build that focuses on both doing damage and providing group support (cele).

That's the point, you shouldn't be able to have so much utility, firebrand is already oppressive enough compared to other supports.

[Buran.3796]

21 hours ago, kaese.8765 said:

The rework was meant to make firebrand more viable for WvW/PvP. In general you got more situational utility choices without waiting for long cooldowns which is pretty good for PvE too. Page managment has to be learned but once you know how it works, it's pretty fun.

   I don't care about the tomes rework, but the new recovered mantras are a nerf and the spec is by far the worst (already was) in PvP, to the point that even some core builds (including two core Guardian variants) are more powerful. than Firebrand.

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I don't care about the tomes rework, but the new recovered mantras are a nerf and the spec is by far the worst (already was) in PvP, to the point that even some core builds (including two core Guardian variants) are more powerful. than Firebrand.

Not every spec needs to be viable in spvp? Fb is kitten enough in pve and wvw.

[Spucke.4163]

18 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

I prefered when tomes had cds and rotations to them

 

There are still rotations.

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

new recovered mantras are a nerf and the spec is by far the worst (already was) in PvP, to the point that even some core builds (including two core Guardian variants) are more powerful. than Firebrand.

Mantras are still good but they need atleast some brainpower now. Nobody said it's good in PvP.

Firebrand is enjoyable right now and rewind changes makes it even worse.

PvE - yep

WvW - yep

PvP - nope

[Buran.3796]

55 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Not every spec needs to be viable in spvp? Fb is kitten enough in pve and wvw.

   Ha. Guardian only has one contender for any slot in a conformed team (support core) and isn't even meta (support Tempest is bis). Since the post PoF nerfs (soon close to half of trhe life of the game), the profession has been mostly an ousider in PvP.

   Also, FB being good at PvE and the boneback of zergy WvW (along core Guardian) didn't made DH or WB any bit more popular. Since I don't play alts too much (I play mostly heavies) I enjoy some variety. Guardian at PvP has nothing.

[otto.5684]

5 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Not every spec needs to be viable in spvp? Fb is kitten enough in pve and wvw.

Mmm… yes. Every spec should. You many not care about FB, but that could be someone else favorite or only spec they like. Not every spec will the best every where, but not viable? And is not this the balance devs…job?

14 hours ago, rotten.9753 said:

That's the point, you shouldn't be able to have so much utility, firebrand is already oppressive enough compared to other supports.

Was that true though? Sure, it was fairly strong, but having most tomes being mostly unusable, while also locking your weapon skill, is atrocious design.

[zealex.9410]

On 7/14/2023 at 1:46 PM, cat.8975 said:

Barring reverting the tome changes entirely, I'd like them to change Resolve 4+5 and Courage 3+4+5 to only use a single page instead of two. PvE split it and give them longer cooldowns, I just want that utility back. Two pages is just so restrictive when you're playing a hybrid build that focuses on both doing damage and providing group support (cele).

You are underplaying alot how busted it it that these tomes dont have big cds, let alone that weighty terms now gives 2 pages which makes these skills very accesible.

[zealex.9410]

11 hours ago, kaese.8765 said:

There are still rotations.

Mantras are still good but they need atleast some brainpower now. Nobody said it's good in PvP.

Firebrand is enjoyable right now and rewind changes makes it even worse.

PvE - yep

WvW - yep

PvP - nope

Old f1 was more fun imo, it felt like a shroud more than an engi kit, now it feels like the latter.

[zealex.9410]

10 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Ha. Guardian only has one contender for any slot in a conformed team (support core) and isn't even meta (support Tempest is bis). Since the post PoF nerfs (soon close to half of trhe life of the game), the profession has been mostly an ousider in PvP.

   Also, FB being good at PvE and the boneback of zergy WvW (along core Guardian) didn't made DH or WB any bit more popular. Since I don't play alts too much (I play mostly heavies) I enjoy some variety. Guardian at PvP has nothing.

Tnf im seeing alot of willys and dhs in pve.

[Hotride.2187]

13 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

Since the post PoF nerfs (soon close to half of trhe life of the game), the profession has been mostly an ousider in PvP.

Ah yes, I only played from 2020 to 2022 with a support core guard on every team, every ranked conquest game. Are you serious?

[Hotride.2187]

8 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

Mmm… yes. Every spec should. You many not care about FB, but that could be someone else favorite or only spec they like. Not every spec will the best every where, but not viable? And is not this the balance devs…job?

You can play fb in other settings If you want to play it - you can find somewhere where its good. Right now spvp has broken builds that need nerfing and not even that is being touched. You want to spend effort on fb in this situation? It does well enough elsewhere. Spend effort on more immediate problems.

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Ah yes, I only played from 2020 to 2022 with a support core guard on every team, every ranked conquest game. Are you serious?

   FB has been absent from MATs for years, and now that you mention ranked, how many FB players are in the to 250 of each continent? Is really your argument "I can go ranked and feed deaths as FB as many times as I want, the spec is fine"?

   FB is garbage at PvP, has been for a long while and the changes (specially the annoying mantras) only worsened the problem. Meanwhile you can win the MAT with a roster of 3-4 Elementalist iterations...

[Hotride.2187]

22 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   FB has been absent from MATs for years, and now that you mention ranked, how many FB players are in the to 250 of each continent? Is really your argument "I can go ranked and feed deaths as FB as many times as I want, the spec is fine"?

   FB is garbage at PvP, has been for a long while and the changes (specially the annoying mantras) only worsened the problem. Meanwhile you can win the MAT with a roster of 3-4 Elementalist iterations...

Maybe you meant spec and not profession in your comment then?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

The book rework is great. 

[Laxativus.9148]

(PvE player) I just feel that it makes pages as a resource kinda redundant. Like, 97% of the time I am blocked by the cooldown of tome skills and rarely run out of pages, even as a healer, and never ever run out of them as DPS. So yeah, it is kinda uncomfortable to be bound by something I don't even see without opening the tome (that is: the cooldown of tome skills.)

Sure, WvW is a different story. When the proverbial s..t hits the fan I will need every single one of those eight pages, plus whatever I can get back from Weighty Terms, but in PvE it feels so redundant and weightless.

[otto.5684]

On 7/15/2023 at 2:58 PM, Buran.3796 said:

   Ha. Guardian only has one contender for any slot in a conformed team (support core) and isn't even meta (support Tempest is bis). Since the post PoF nerfs (soon close to half of trhe life of the game), the profession has been mostly an ousider in PvP.

   Also, FB being good at PvE and the boneback of zergy WvW (along core Guardian) didn't made DH or WB any bit more popular. Since I don't play alts too much (I play mostly heavies) I enjoy some variety. Guardian at PvP has nothing.

I know this is late. As a former sPvP player, anytime I play guardian nowadays, it is not... good. Definitely nothing in MAT outside of core support. The only build that I may use if I decide to play ranked would be condi core. It is the only build that can survive enough damage and has some level of cleave. And even this build was nerfed significantly via virtue of justice nerf, even though it was never competitive to begin with. DH, WB, FB are really poor in sPvP now.

It was very funny when devs said the have been improving FB in sPvP recently. I was like 🧐... no. It was also nice that the devs nerfed RF, as if other guardian elite skills are remotely usable, or guardian is tearing-up sPvP. I honestly cannot tell if the devs are this inept or have a significant anti guardian PvP bias.