Discover the Wonders within the Wizard’s Vault in Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[Wheezy.2846]

18 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I think that you keep completely missing the core point of what i am trying to tell you.

The casual players i was talking about - those that currently are the main source of MCs - are not intentionally doing that. They are just liquidating materials that is overflowing their material storage - materials that they accrue passively (in this case not meant by "doing nothing but logging in" but "in the course of normal play, with no intention to farm anything specific"). MCs are simply one of those materials, and so far those players were obtaining them through login rewards. Now, they will no longer be obtaining them at all, because in the new system getting those materials will require an active, conscious decision to pursue them.

The simple truth is that most casual players do not actively farm - and if they do, they are not doing it in order to sell them. As such, the increased price of MCs will not make those players pursue them in order to sell them (thus keeping price down). The end result will simply be a complete removal of that source of MCs. And considering that it was practically the only significant source of MCs so far. if the supply on TP is to remain mostly unaffected and not suffer a massive drastic reduction, then the influx from active, farmable sources would have to be increased by at least an order of magnitude. Probably more. And i just don't see this happening.

Yeah, I understand. Prices will go up. People who want to play the game, learn the game, will look it up, find out how to get them, and will be rewarded with a higher gold / hour for playing the game rather than people who don't ever want to learn anything getting rewards for just logging in. People who want long term goals like legendary gear work more for them. I understand. I disagree with you that it's bad. I think Gen 2 legendaries were a more appropriate grind than 3, they're way easier. I think passive income should be toned down and active play income should be a bit higher. I think it's another nudge to make casual players learn something, about the game.

[maceojc.2756]

all these people talking about being against passive income from the daily rewards are conveniently ignoring that the game store literally sells gems for real money and very conveniently allows you to convert said gems for gold. If they massively nerf FREE effortless in game rewards they are driving up the price of materials and gold.. encouraging MORE gem to gold conversions.. pretty obvious to me. They ALREADY got your money for alt accounts and nerfed that income.. you can fill in the difference by grinding real hours or just taking out your credit card =] gg! 

[WRay.2391]

3 minutes ago, maceojc.2756 said:

all these people talking about being against passive income from the daily rewards are conveniently ignoring that the game store literally sells gems for real money and very conveniently allows you to convert said gems for gold. If they massively nerf FREE effortless in game rewards they are driving up the price of materials and gold.. encouraging MORE gem to gold conversions.. pretty obvious to me. They ALREADY got your money for alt accounts and nerfed that income.. you can fill in the difference by grinding real hours or just taking out your credit card =] gg! 

Most probably this is the intention.

[WRay.2391]

24 minutes ago, Wheezy.2846 said:

Yeah, I understand. Prices will go up. People who want to play the game, learn the game, will look it up, find out how to get them, and will be rewarded with a higher gold / hour for playing the game rather than people who don't ever want to learn anything getting rewards for just logging in. People who want long term goals like legendary gear work more for them. I understand. I disagree with you that it's bad. I think Gen 2 legendaries were a more appropriate grind than 3, they're way easier. I think passive income should be toned down and active play income should be a bit higher. I think it's another nudge to make casual players learn something, about the game.

You should understand also why many casual players play GW2. Part will learn, a lot will leave to some other game.

This mentality killed raids: not casual friendly, does not respect time (can fail after spending lot of time without reward), requires good group (elitism). Where are the raids now, even considering it has awesome legendary armor?

I understand if ppl want to play hardcore game with small amount of like-minded players, sure. Potentially this is what you are getting.

[Wheezy.2846]

2 hours ago, WRay.2391 said:

Just to clarify, they want us to play the way they want, not the way we want. If direction is aligned - good for you. If you prefer more relaxing way of playing - bad luck.

.....what? Relaxing play is one thing, not playing at all and still getting stuff is another. This system, just like the dailies before, asks you to PLAY. Not do CMs, or raids, or win automated tournaments or monthlies. Play. They're not even fully removing getting something for just logging in, but reducing it in favor of giving us more for PLAYING the game. I guess you can just RP in LA all day every day, but like, don't expect that to give you any ascended gear. You don't have to do fractals, but you can't get the fractal backpack then. That's how all of this works. Do thing, get reward. Now do thing get more reward, do nothing get less than before.

[WRay.2391]

17 minutes ago, Wheezy.2846 said:

.....what? Relaxing play is one thing, not playing at all and still getting stuff is another. This system, just like the dailies before, asks you to PLAY. Not do CMs, or raids, or win automated tournaments or monthlies. Play. They're not even fully removing getting something for just logging in, but reducing it in favor of giving us more for PLAYING the game. I guess you can just RP in LA all day every day, but like, don't expect that to give you any ascended gear. You don't have to do fractals, but you can't get the fractal backpack then. That's how all of this works. Do thing, get reward. Now do thing get more reward, do nothing get less than before.

Well, you can get login rewards and play game, no? I have 2 sets of WvW legendary armor + 2 confluxes I got in the last year. You can calculate time spent in WvW. Would I be able to craft it without login rewards on alt accounts? Definitely not, mystic coins and material requirements not worth grind out of WvW in this case. I'm pretty sure my next set of legendary armor will be gated behind horrible grind and the only way to alleviate it would be swiping credit card for gems (how legendary is it? so much better than login alt accounts?).

At this point I know I'm gonna cancel pre-order and will take a rest from GW2 (unless they will clarify value of mentioned 5 AA per login), a bunch of other games release that I want to try anyway.

Edited August 16, 2023 by WRay.2391
Typos

[Wheezy.2846]

4 minutes ago, WRay.2391 said:

You should understand also why many casual players play GW2. Part will learn, a lot will leave to some other game.

This mentality killed raids: not casual friendly, does not respect time (can fail after spending lot of time without reward), requires good group (elitism). Where are the raids now, even considering it has awesome legendary armor?

I understand if ppl want to play hardcore game with small amount of like-minded players, sure. Potentially this is what you are getting.

Asking people to do one strike, any strike, or a few open world events, or healing players 50k, isn't elitist, isn't excluding anyone. I said it in my last comment too, but casual or relaxing play is one thing. I do a strike every few days maybe, I've done all 4 for the legendary insight maybe 4-5 times. I have done fractals like.. Once in the last year. I do open world mostly. "casual" is how I would describe my play these days. That's one thing. Doing nothing, not playing or engaging with the game at all, and getting rewarded for it aa much as we have been, is not good.

[WRay.2391]

Just now, Wheezy.2846 said:

Asking people to do one strike, any strike, or a few open world events, or healing players 50k, isn't elitist, isn't excluding anyone. I said it in my last comment too, but casual or relaxing play is one thing. I do a strike every few days maybe, I've done all 4 for the legendary insight maybe 4-5 times. I have done fractals like.. Once in the last year. I do open world mostly. "casual" is how I would describe my play these days. That's one thing. Doing nothing, not playing or engaging with the game at all, and getting rewarded for it aa much as we have been, is not good.

Well, I spend time in WvW, other than that completing collection and map completion. I like helping others when random person needs help on the map. I have enough stress in IRL to work in game. It's not like I'm not playing, I don't play most profitable parts of the game. Login rewards compensate for that.

[Whirlygig.9685]

I just had a thought or two that worries me a little, seeing as they are changing and mixing up the different types of generic dailies does this mean that players who exclusively get their dailies done (3 for the 2 gold) in wvw or pvp can no longer do so because there wont be 3?

Also, i dont see mentioned anywhere if we still in fact get 2 gold for doing dailies? do we only get astral aclaim now? so AA has replaced both generic log in and daily rewards AND gold? thats...not ok

Edited August 16, 2023 by Whirlygig.9685

[Linken.6345]

20 minutes ago, Whirlygig.9685 said:

I just had a thought or two that worries me a little, seeing as they are changing and mixing up the different types of generic dailies does this mean that players who exclusively get their dailies done (3 for the 2 gold) in wvw or pvp can no longer do so because there wont be 3?

Also, i dont see mentioned anywhere if we still in fact get 2 gold for doing dailies? do we only get astral aclaim now? so AA has replaced both generic log in and daily rewards AND gold? thats...not ok

You get to decide if you want to do wvw, spvp or pve or even a mix of 2-3 of them it said so in the blogpost

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/discover-the-wonders-within-the-wizards-vault-in-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/

Under Gameplay Direction you can read this.

To that end, we have daily, weekly, and special objectives related to PvE, WvW, and PvP. Those three categories are presented as checkbox options so you can choose from one, two, or all three categories.

 

And about the gold @Rubi Bayer.8493 replied in this thread and said you can purchase laurels, mystic coins and gold in the shop apparently for the new astral currency, so you got alot more influence what you get from your daily/weekly.

Edit

It really helps to read the blogpost before asking questions.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Linken.6345

[Whirlygig.9685]

9 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

And about the gold @Rubi Bayer.8493 replied in this thread and said you can purchase laurels, mystic coins and gold in the shop apparently for the new astral currency, so you got alot more influence what you get from your daily/weekly.

Edit

It really helps to read the blogpost before asking questions.

I did read the blog post, and becauzsed im dyslexic and you were being passive agressive about it, i went back and read it, twice. Sure enough there is the wvw answer, so thanks for pointing to that, but the only place any response to the other question was somewhere in this 18 page thread, so no, i had not seen it, and seeing as the majority or questions on here are the same ones about mystic coins/laurels maybe save your ire for them>? this is a thread literally about people asking about the new changes 😧

 

[Acheron.1580]

For those that don't remember it, way back in the day you used to do runs to level 10 repeatedly to get BL keys, and Anet didn't care for that (because it affected their real money purchases of keys) and put a stop to it, in a somewhat reasonable compromise that you could do it once per week.

For those don't remember when the repeatable teleport to friend was released, people were using it to farm keys from bloodstone fen because it took so little time to do the completion, and again Anet didn't care for it (same reasons), so added a long cooldown to the portal to friend device, and removed keys from a bunch of maps as a possible reward for completion, a result that was more of a serious downer to people who weren't exploiting on both fronts.

These were both considered to be exploits, but were addressed quickly because it was going to cost Anet money. So now the part you all aren't going to like to hear. Everyone who upgraded their account for a daily login basically just exploited and it took Anet a long time to get around to it for 2 reasons:

1) there wasn't a reasonable way to do it without harming all the players not doing it.

2) they were still making money off of people buying extra accounts to do this. It was short term revenue with long term impact on Anet's income.

Let's go by what someone earlier in the thread said about making roughly $60 gold per month per account for doing NOTHING. Let's assume that these people were smart and bought when there were game discounts, so paid what like $15 for an account? That means over the course of 5 months (at current rates, it has been going up steadily so honestly with inflation the longer they had been doing this the better off they were, and before when MC were way more expensive that even now), you would have made back that much or more in gems compared to if you bought the gems and then converted into gold instead. And now Anet is clawing it back (not removing it which they would have every right to do). Frankly if you had been doing this for more than the 5 months that lead up to this change, congrats, you broke even or made profit. Of course something like this was eventually going to get addressed. Anet doesn't need to compensate anybody over it because it was in a way an exploit that affected their bottom line. They are giving you a login bonus anyways just as a compromise. It doesn't even matter what the cost of anything is, buyer beware. Frankly I think it's a good move to reward the people actually playing their game. To everyone who had 20+ accounts and abused it, like I said you already made it back and then some so the only sympathy you are going to get is from people who also were exploiting the system.

Bring on the emotes.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Linken.6345]

9 minutes ago, Whirlygig.9685 said:

I did read the blog post, and becauzsed im dyslexic and you were being passive agressive about it, i went back and read it, twice. Sure enough there is the wvw answer, so thanks for pointing to that, but the only place any response to the other question was somewhere in this 18 page thread, so no, i had not seen it, and seeing as the majority or questions on here are the same ones about mystic coins/laurels maybe save your ire for them>? this is a thread literally about people asking about the new changes 😧

 

Easiest to see all the red posts is to use the dev tracker tab at the top of this page thats usualy what I do if I dont want to read through big threads.

Edit

And sorry about the snark but your post made it seem like you did not infact read the blogpost and had instead just jumped into this thread bud.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Linken.6345

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Not sure what to make of this. 

I get the exploiters and the fact this way should let you basically choose say laurels every day if you wanted instead of things you don't need, but if the value is better or worse will be dependent on how much AA things cost.

I just hope they add to the dailies and not change them--I see that Obsidian Sanctum JP one in the screenshot, trust me, NO ONE wants to do that for any reason.

[starhunter.6015]

I think at this point just a rundown of reward cost tiers without saying any of the rewards may please many who are worried,  Like what is the cheapest to average price we will pay for the rewards? 

[Linken.6345]

6 minutes ago, starhunter.6015 said:

I think at this point just a rundown of reward cost tiers without saying any of the rewards may please many who are worried,  Like what is the cheapest to average price we will pay for the rewards? 

Well 25 astal aclaim should give enough for 3 spirit shards and 2 gold since thats what you earn from a original daily right?

[WRay.2391]

18 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

For those that don't remember it, way back in the day you used to do runs to level 10 repeatedly to get BL keys, and Anet didn't care for that (because it affected their real money purchases of keys) and put a stop to it, in a somewhat reasonable compromise that you could do it once per week.

For those don't remember when the repeatable teleport to friend was released, people were using it to farm keys from bloodstone fen because it took so little time to do the completion, and again Anet didn't care for it (same reasons), so added a long cooldown to the portal to friend device, and removed keys from a bunch of maps as a possible reward for completion, a result that was more of a serious downer to people who weren't exploiting on both fronts.

These were both considered to be exploits, but were addressed quickly because it was going to cost Anet money. So now the part you all aren't going to like to hear. Everyone who upgraded their account for a daily login basically just exploited and it took Anet a long time to get around to it for 2 reasons:

1) there wasn't a reasonable way to do it without harming all the players not doing it.

2) they were still making money off of people buying extra accounts to do this. It was short term revenue with long term impact on Anet's income.

Let's go by what someone earlier in the thread said about making roughly $60 gold per month per account for doing NOTHING. Let's assume that these people were smart and bought when there were game discounts, so paid what like $15 for an account? That means over the course of 5 months (at current rates, it has been going up steadily so honestly with inflation the longer they had been doing this the better off they were, and before when MC were way more expensive that even now), you would have made back that much or more in gems compared to if you bought the gems instead. And now Anet is clawing it back (not removing it which they would have every right to do). Frankly if you had been doing this for more than the 5 months that lead up to this change, congrats, you broke even or made profit. Of course something like this was eventually going to get addressed. Anet doesn't need to compensate anybody over it because it was in a way an exploit that affected their bottom line. They are giving you a login bonus anyways just as a compromise. It doesn't even matter what the cost of anything is, buyer beware. Frankly I think it's a good move to reward the people actually playing their game. To everyone who had 20+ accounts and abused it, like I said you already made it back and then some so the only sympathy you are going to get is from people who also were exploiting the system.

Bring on the emotes.

If this considered as exploit then Anet should address it. Multiple streamers advertise this as best passive income. Ppl here claimed they asked support if alt login reward accounts are ok use and got confirmation. At this point your abuse claim does not make sense.

If Anet wanted to implement scammy tactics to allow this to happen to silently get the money and take away value - this looks like reality. They could've state long time ago they discourage this use and no issues would be raised now. I would say refund for accounts is fair in current situation (although will not happen) and make clear what usage is discouraged in the future.

[Acheron.1580]

15 minutes ago, WRay.2391 said:

If this considered as exploit then Anet should address it. Multiple streamers advertise this as best passive income. Ppl here claimed they asked support if alt login reward accounts are ok use and got confirmation. At this point your abuse claim does not make sense.

If Anet wanted to implement scammy tactics to allow this to happen to silently get the money and take away value - this looks like reality. They could've state long time ago they discourage this use and no issues would be raised now. I would say refund for accounts is fair in current situation (although will not happen) and make clear what usage is discouraged in the future.

Why wouldn't they want you spending more money on buying another copy of the game? If they said no how would they honestly police it? And it being mentioned by streamers as passive income is exactly what I'm talking about. How would you propose they verify each and every account was purchased just for login daily rewards, and even if they could the game itself isn't just daily login rewards, and you would have to know that buying the game so why would they need to refund it anyways?

If you bought these accounts like maybe a month or 2 before announcement I think you have a case for argument. If you've made thousands of gold off it already then you more than got your money's worth. On top of that you still get a daily log in so they didn't really take anything away that would require a refund since you are still using those accounts for what you bought them for.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, maceojc.2756 said:

all these people talking about being against passive income from the daily rewards are conveniently ignoring that the game store literally sells gems for real money and very conveniently allows you to convert said gems for gold. If they massively nerf FREE effortless in game rewards they are driving up the price of materials and gold.. encouraging MORE gem to gold conversions.. pretty obvious to me. They ALREADY got your money for alt accounts and nerfed that income.. you can fill in the difference by grinding real hours or just taking out your credit card =] gg! 

this is simply incorrect, the gem exchange is just that; an exchange. the more people who buy gold with real money actually lower the prices for everyone else, so it lets other players get premium content more casually with their normal gold income.

 

daily login rewards being farmed is the opposite, while some of the mats are sellable on the trading post almost no one sells them and instead hoards them to help create legendaries and other similar tradeable equipment using account-bound materials, for their main account. the majority of materials sold on the trading post are coming from players who don't need to use them for anything, mostly new players who desparately need the gold.

 

to be fair, someone who isn't "in the know" likely wouldn't understand how this works.

Edited August 16, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Acheron.1580]

2 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

this is simply incorrect, the gem exchange is just that; an exchange. the more people who buy gold with real money actually lower the prices for everyone else, so it lets other players get premium content more casually with their normal gold income.

 

daily login rewards being farmed is the opposite, while some of the mats are sellable on the trading post almost no one sells them and instead hoards them to help create legendaries and other similar tradeable equipment using account-bound materials, for their main account. the majority of mystic coins sold on the trading post are coming from players who don't need to use them for anything, mostly new players desparately need the gold.

Does it change the fact you do nothing to earn it? It still has a monetary value, and that still affect's Anet's income. Even if you don't think so, or the devs don't, someone up the chain probably went why aren't we making more money and this was brainstormed.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

6 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Does it change the fact you do nothing to earn it? It still has a monetary value, and that still affect's Anet's income. Even if you don't think so, or the devs don't, someone up the chain probably went why aren't we making more money and this was brainstormed.

i think its a very important difference since the players who work alot need a way to offset how little time they have to play the game? i don't see the comparison here to alt account farmers, who bought 50+ accounts with half a paycheck when the game was $9.99 usd.

 

i'll stop discussing this though, since we're getting into really controversial territory here.

Edited August 16, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Acheron.1580]

4 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i think its a very important difference since the players who work alot need a way to offset how little time they have to play the game?

So then by all accounts, nobody should complain about afk farms either, right? Like it's the same thing basically, and it doesn't require a bot to do. In fact those afk farms take longer to do than logging in for 5 seconds.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[WRay.2391]

1 hour ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Why wouldn't they want you spending more money on buying another copy of the game? If they said no how would they honestly police it? And it being mentioned by streamers as passive income is exactly what I'm talking about. How would you propose they verify each and every account was purchased just for login daily rewards, and even if they could the game itself isn't just daily login rewards, and you would have to know that buying the game so why would they need to refund it anyways?

If you bought these accounts like maybe a month or 2 before announcement I think you have a case for argument. If you've made thousands of gold off it already then you more than got your money's worth. On top of that you still get a daily log in so they didn't really take anything away that would require a refund since you are still using those accounts for what you bought them for.

They can't verify but they can totally avoid accusations of scam by being honest, no?

To be fair, daily login rewards was introduced as a compensation for paid core Tyria accounts to compensate when GW2 became free to play. If after SotO expansion there will be no difference between paid core Tyria account and free to play one, the totally removed value from real time money purchase.

Edited August 16, 2023 by WRay.2391
Context

[Shaman.2034]

Sorry if it's already been asked. What about Spirit Shards? I know a lot of veteran players have a metric charr-ton of them, but I'm always running out. The 3 from completing the general daily category was really helpful!

[Acheron.1580]

4 minutes ago, WRay.2391 said:

To be fair, daily login rewards was introduced as a compensation for paid core Tyria accounts to compensate when it became free to play.

Is there anything to back that up? There are a LOT of differences between ftp and paid.