new daily system is not accessible [Merged]

[armada.9013]

I really like the Wizards Vault. I think it opens a lot of possibilities to make steady progress, while playing the game. I agree that how it is now is very restrictive, but I know anet will fix it.

That being said, I would like to take the opportunity to say how I would like it to be, according to MY personal preferences.

I'm not big into any particular game mode, but I do enjoy all of them. Since I dont have unlimited time to play the game, I rotate game modes. Some days I play PVP, other days I do fractals or strikes, others WvW, etc...

The way the daily system is now I have to either choose one or play a tiny bit of all of them. This is not ideal.

For the daily achievements it would be great to have a lot of choice, with several possible achievements per game mode. Lets say 4 for each like it used to be. You would still only be able to complete four per day of course.

For the weekly achievements it would be nice to have more meaninguful goals like: Complete 8 Fractals/Stikes, Win 8 PvP matches, Participate in 5 different Metas, Unlock Silver WvW chest, Comple a Raid Wing. I think these types of acievements would incentivize people to play more, while keeping each possible to be completed in one or two play sessions of 1 to 2 hours.

Another thing is the types of dailies we have right now. Right now I have a weekly achievement to kill 100 awakened, which I think doesn't really incentivize me to play any meaningful content, is just grindy and I'm sure Anet would prefer to have me participate in a Meta. Doing hearts are also not that meaningful since is basically solo content. 

That is all. Overall thank you for the QoL added to the game, I am enjoying this expansion even though I didnt have time to play much.

[Rose.2593]

If you don't pick PVP, you get a replacement WVW or PVE daily instead, the same for each option. 

Yes you have to do 3/3 to count, but that's the same as it was before? 

Before if you liked PVE you did 3 out 12 daily, picking the pve ones, so in effect its still the same? You just don't have the other options or you mix and match, yes some days the daily might be harder than it was before, but alot of the time it will be easier.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Rose.2593

[Effrafax.2734]

1 hour ago, Rose.2593 said:

If you don't pick PVP, you get a replacement WVW or PVE daily instead, the same for each option. 

Yes you have to do 3/3 to count, but that's the same as it was before? 

Before if you liked PVE you did 3 out 12 daily, picking the pve ones, so in effect its still the same? You just don't have the other options or you mix and match, yes some days the daily might be harder than it was before, but alot of the time it will be easier.

The issue is that with the previous system, you could change your approach on the fly depending on what you felt like doing/how difficult the tasks were; you were given 12 options and could do whichever ones appealed to you that day. One of the PvE options is too difficult/time-consuming? You could hop into a different mode to finish the set. Now, you have to commit to a game mode or modes ahead of time, and then you're stuck with the 3 options the system gives you, no alternatives, no flexibility. I generally like the rewards part of the new system, but the task/daily achievement part is a pure downgrade in player choice.

[Turiya Raver Xll.7068]

"The Wizard’s Vault is a new streamlined rewards system that combines the best elements of the daily login and daily achievement systems, allowing you to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to–whether it’s PvE, Player vs Player, or World vs World, or a mix–and earn a wide variety of exciting rewards for doing so."

I think any decision by the devs that reduces a player's choice is a bad idea, and any decision by the devs to remove a player's choice is a very bad idea. How is reducing my choice of what daily achievements to do, allowing me to " ...play guild wars 2 the way you want to..."? The ops comment about disabilities is a very relevant point. I just had to do the daily of sanctum sprint - no big surprise i came in last because i have the reflexes of a brick and the similar eyesight etc.  I would not have chosen this achievement under the old system, in this new system i had no choice.

I suppose the counter to the above is,  well you do have a choice, you don't have to the dailies at all, just like the choice i don't have to play the game at all, just like the choice to add 3 months of non real life money to the gem store as a protest every time they do something like this.  I have no idea why they did this, reducing the choice of dailies and reducing the daily award from 2g to 1g, what was the reasoning behind it? Other than the above quote from the 27th June i cannot seem to find anything from anet that explains why they made those changes 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Turiya Raver Xll.7068

[Doctor.1384]

Another issue i've found with the choosing specific game modes mechanic is that with the new objectives I've realized that I want the game modes for my weeklies to be different from my dailies. For example I play wvw regularly, but sometimes during the weekday I have limited time to play. Therefore since I have no options in my dailies and may get stuck with hard to achieve wvw objectives that I can't complete in a short timespan, I want only pve objectives for my dailies to ensure I can do the 3 I need, but then that locks me out of wvw objectives for my weeklies, which is the game mode I play most. Kinda highlights the need to have 12 objectives to choose from like the old system. Again, we really just need the old system but with the new rewards. 

[RoastedBloop.9817]

22 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

snip

I almost feel like you maybe haven't seen the new system if you're telling me to "pick and choose". 

I have seen and aware of the new system and even completed my weekly ty, granted it's pve. "Pick and choose" is a way to mitigate (or try to) the annoyance, until anet do a better job of balancing out the dailies and weeklies. My aim is to be nice, to see that you don't miss out too much in a system that you and others aren't too happy with currently (hopefully they will adapt to it, as it is a system that is rewarding). It's your choice as to what you do at the end of the day, if you took offence to it, then take no heed and carry on 

[Turiya Raver Xll.7068]

5 hours ago, RoastedBloop.9817 said:

Snip

(hopefully they will adapt to it, as it is a system that is rewarding)

Due to disability and age I can, as an example, never do better than bronze on most of the  adventures and even then it takes me hours, literally, to do so. I spent about 5 hours, even with the help of taco, trying to do the ley line run in tangled depths to get an achievement for a legendary trinket. I have had to stop another trinket because i cannot, no matter what, do the griffon diving run, I have never been able to get past half way, never mind finish it.

So under the old daily system where an adventure was an achievement i would just ignore/avoid it and do one of the other ones. Now under the new system if that comes up i will simply have to accept i will not be able to do the daily and not get the final reward. This is not a case of  simply not wanting to, or not trying, it is a case of cannot.

Since i cannot do certain things i am unable to aspire to your hope of "adapting".

Under the old system i could avoid the ones that I was physically unable to do, under the new system i have no choice. I do not find that "rewarding".

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

I see 3 issues with the new system: 

1. You have less choices to choose from.  With the old system, it was a rare day where you couldn't finish 3 dailies in 5-15 minutes.  With this system it seems like 20+ minutes occurs at least twice a week.  And some like wvw defense, can take over an hour.  This is somewhat offset by the weeklies using the same pool of rewards, so you can just skip those days, and not really have lost much compared to the old system.

2. Some of the dailies in the old system served as social activities for the day.   For example jumping puzzles, and PoF bounties.  Even if you primarily play WvW or PvP, it's good to have the option to go do dailies like this.

3. I pulled up, and played with  the daily panel at least 5 times before I figured out that the Astral Rewards tab had a scroll bar.  It might be something specific to my config, but that scroll bar is not very visible.  And it's possible some of the complaints over the new system not being perceived as rewarding enough, might be from other people who haven't noticed you can scroll it down to find the mystic coins, gold, laurels, etc.

[radium.7350]

On 8/25/2023 at 2:59 PM, Rose.2593 said:

Yes you have to do 3/3 to count, but that's the same as it was before? 

Before if you liked PVE you did 3 out 12 daily, picking the pve ones, so in effect its still the same?

NO. It was 3/4 for each  category. Big difference. For example today i have dodge rolling, 3 combo skills nad Valdhertz Crypts minidungeon. Now, i wouldn't want to go do that minidungeon anyway but since there is NO CHOICE, i went there and find that it is bugged. So i cannot finish my dailies today, because i have only 3 choises and one of them is bugged.

In old system i would have gone and done the 4th pve one or one of the wvw ones. Now i just suck it up that today i wont get daily done. Great system...

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

kittening mini dungeon for one of my "choices" today. After I unticked WvW because of the defence debacle.

I don't want to do mini dungeons. I don't want to do jumping puzzles. I don't want them to effectively be unskippable "options" that I'm forced to do if I don't want to miss out on resources. You need to fix this daily setup with a sense of urgency, because otherwise people are going to be voting with their feet.

It isn't even complicated. Go back to giving us 12 options for the daily, 4 in each category. Take away the option to ignore some of them, because it will no longer be necessary. You complete 3 for 10 each, then it stops offering any resource reward for the remaining ones. Same for the weekly, make 4 rewards 60 instead of 40, then once you've done 4 the remaining ones don't reward resources. Probably want to increase the number of options for those to 12 as well, to give people genuine choice. Hell, do the same for the "special" ones, instead of leaving people needing to do massive time/resource sinks that don't mesh with their gameplay style.

This isn't rewarding people for playing, which was the intention of all these changes; this is only rewarding those people that will slavishly follow the exact gameplay that your RNG system inflicts on then. If they play, and stick to a way of playing that doesn't match what you want, this ends up actively punishing them for their choice to play the game the way they enjoy.

You are pissing your customers off at this point, by a stupid design decision you didn't need to make. Fix it quickly, it's hurting the game as it stands.

[Doghouse.1562]

Personally, my biggest dislike (after the "take it or leave it" lists of things to do which so many people are highlighting, and which I, too, dislike strongly)  is that I'm forced to use a single selection interface for the criteria for both dailies and weeklies. I may be unusual in this, but I play both PvE and WvW, with a preponderance of PvE but one or two more intense WvW sessions a week, and by preference right now I would likely choose PvE-only for dailies but WvW-only for weeklies. Sadly I don't have that level of discretion (or not reliably - clearly, if I were to reset every week to WvW on the day before the reset and to PvE on the day after, I could almost achieve the same thing - but that sort of cludge is heavily error prone, and it's  hardly a satisfactory solution).

Edited August 27, 2023 by Doghouse.1562

[Poormany.4507]

I really dislike the new daily system. As someone who has very limited gaming time on weekdays due to work, I used to be able to easily do dailies in < 20-30 minutes on days I had limited time. Now I have to forego those rewards because I have to do 4/4 dailies, without any choice in which ones, one of which almost always includes tasks that require large groups (I only have time to play during off hours, so no dailies, especially the new WvW ones, for me I guess?) or long time commitments (Defend x objectives in WvW or long dungeons in PVE). This just makes me want to give up on dailies and skip GW2 on most days, when before I would play regularly. The point-based system is fine, but I agree with other posts that they should let you choose out of a much larger number of dailies like before to make it more accessible to players who don't want to and/or can't do the currently pre-chosen dailies.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[willow.8209]

On 8/25/2023 at 3:45 PM, Doctor.1384 said:

Kinda highlights the need to have 12 objectives to choose from like the old system. Again, we really just need the old system but with the new rewards. 

exactly

[willow.8209]

On 8/25/2023 at 9:45 PM, RoastedBloop.9817 said:

I have seen and aware of the new system and even completed my weekly ty, granted it's pve. "Pick and choose" is a way to mitigate (or try to) the annoyance, until anet do a better job of balancing out the dailies and weeklies. My aim is to be nice, to see that you don't miss out too much in a system that you and others aren't too happy with currently (hopefully they will adapt to it, as it is a system that is rewarding). It's your choice as to what you do at the end of the day, if you took offence to it, then take no heed and carry on 

I still think you have misunderstood. Maybe we're using "pick and choose" differently.

Regardless of what I choose among PvE, PvP, and/or WvW, there will always be some individual objectives I cannot reasonably do, or cannot reliably do (like maybe I was lucky Tuesday and did that meta or took a tower, but I'm unlucky today and it's a daily today... but if it's say an Activity, there are no lucky days for that--Activity is one of the most inaccessible mini games in the entire game, for me and for others, and I expect Adventure is the same). 

Yes, I can choose to do/not do some of the dailies but then I will miss out on Astrals. Used to be I could pick any 3 from 12, get a small reward for each, and nearly every day get the meta reward.

Now there are only 3 daily assignments. I have to do all 3 to get the meta reward, no choices which specific dailies I do. 

So used to be: [I'm skipping the "log in" as a daily: that's replacing the premium login rewards from the bouncy chest, not the daily objectives from the Hero panel]

* pick 3 dailies you can do from 12 choices (across all 3 game modes, of course you can still choose the game modes you like or what you are able to do, etc. because there are an abundance of choices among individual objectives). Get meta reward for doing ANY 3. (also get individual rewards for dailies you can/want to do, even beyond 3)

Now it is:

* do THESE EXACT 3 dailies (you can choose the game modes, that's your only choice) and get the meta reward (plus smaller rewards for individual dailies)
OR can't do some/all of those 3 choices and no meta reward (and also reduced individual rewards for the slots you couldn't do)

As I said before, the game mode isn't that important to me but whether I can complete an individual objective is.

Weeklies is similar although it does seem there is a little choice. This week I was able to do 5, but of the remaining 3 I could pick from for the 6th for the meta reward, there are none I can do right now: All are beyond my account progression. For example, I'm like a deer in PvP as that's exhausting to me (fun, but exhausting) and I can't do it often, so there's no way I can play a ranked game (since, I have too low rank to count for ranked games). I might not ever be able to play a ranked game because my gaming is a bit slow due to disability. 

In addition to that, the point of games is to be fun and many players find the new system un-fun (even if they don't have a specific disability complaint). If you don't dislike the new system, no worries everyone is different, you're allowed to like what you like.

But my complaint is extremely valid for me and for some other players. No matter what game mode(s) I pick, I'm definitely missing out. As are other players.

Edited August 28, 2023 by willow.8209

[willow.8209]

On 8/26/2023 at 5:37 AM, Arya Whitefire.8423 said:

And it's possible some of the complaints over the new system not being perceived as rewarding enough, might be from other people who haven't noticed you can scroll it down to find the mystic coins, gold, laurels, etc.

i agree with a lot of what you said (except it took me longer than 15 minutes, probably an hour usually), but for me the complaint about the new system not being rewarding enough is:

just comparing the bouncy login chest to the 5 Astrals for logging in, this particular part of the comparison does not seem equitable. I liked the old bouncy chest because even if I had a seriously unlucky health day and couldn't do 3/12 dailies, I was still making progress towards longterm goals.

I do like the astral rewards in general. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by willow.8209

[Linken.6345]

58 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

Snip

but if it's say an Activity, there are no lucky days for that--Activity is one of the most inaccessible mini games in the entire game, for me and for others, and I expect Adventure is the same). 

Snip

Just how is it inaccessible?

an activity is just going to lions arch speak to the lady with 2 flags over her head and wait 1-15 mins for timer to run out while running around to not disconnect.

[willow.8209]

21 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Just how is it inaccessible?

an activity is just going to lions arch speak to the lady with 2 flags over her head and wait 1-15 mins for timer to run out while running around to not disconnect.

I'm talking accessible as "not creating barriers for people with disabilities". I think it's possible you're thinking of a synonym. Or maybe we tried different activities.

I find that an activity is going to LA to speak to the lady with 2 flags over her head

Start on something that's rather like a jumping puzzle (due to focusing issues I can do those some times and other times not)

there are also visual effects that increase my eye problems, may trigger migraine. Again purposeful design probably intended to make it harder for a healthy abled person, but some people will find it annoying even without having a disability. 

so maybe I keep falling, being asked to start over or start from a checkpoint--I may never finish because my eye problems are getting worse as I continue, due specifically to aspects of the mini-game

The timed aspect is not that bad if there isn't a crowd, but if it's a daily and many people are there, there are also aspects where other people can purposefully, in a way intended by the design, interfere with your progress. Again potentially making it uncompleteable especially since the timer will run out while I'm repetitively getting kicked back to start/a checkpoint.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by willow.8209

[willow.8209]

ps, I shouldn't really have to explain personal information like how my disability works, for people to believe me that I know what I can't do.

[willow.8209]

regarding whether the new rewards are better, equivalent, or worse (now talking about the ones that used to be in the Hero panel), the answer really seems to be "it depends".

(but no, not on "whether you actually play the game"! Depends on what out-of-game responsibilities you have. Depends on what you personally find accessible. Depends on which things are fast for you and which are not, and whether you roll a set you can actually attain based on all your personal variables. Etc.)

Edited August 28, 2023 by willow.8209

[Rosangelina.3694]

Yeah I find the new daily system to leave much to be desired...

I am a returning player that hadn't played since 2014 and only briefly again during PoF release, so I've been taking my time getting through story at my own pace. 

Yesterday I had to start EoD just to get to the maps for it and then travel by mount through two portals to get to one of the mini dungeons there for the daily. I suppose I could have just not done it, but I hate leaving dailies undone (plus I like the rewards in the new panel).

Not really a fan of having to jump around content I have yet to complete, and if team dungeons or strikes come up then I'm probably not doing them.. I agree with others here that having more choices for the dailies would have been preferable. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Rosangelina.3694
Typo

[Linken.6345]

55 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

I'm talking accessible as "not creating barriers for people with disabilities". I think it's possible you're thinking of a synonym. Or maybe we tried different activities.

I find that an activity is going to LA to speak to the lady with 2 flags over her head

Start on something that's rather like a jumping puzzle (due to focusing issues I can do those some times and other times not)

there are also visual effects that increase my eye problems, may trigger migraine. Again purposeful design probably intended to make it harder for a healthy abled person, but some people will find it annoying even without having a disability. 

so maybe I keep falling, being asked to start over or start from a checkpoint--I may never finish because my eye problems are getting worse as I continue, due specifically to aspects of the mini-game

The timed aspect is not that bad if there isn't a crowd, but if it's a daily and many people are there, there are also aspects where other people can purposefully, in a way intended by the design, interfere with your progress. Again potentially making it uncompleteable especially since the timer will run out while I'm repetitively getting kicked back to start/a checkpoint.

 

The thing is when timer runs out you get it completed no matter if you have just run back in forth in the starting area.

You have to do something since just standing around will kick you for inactivty.

You have to wait for the activity to reset aswell and not exit to early.

So yea you cant hinder anyones progress in any of the activities thats what Im trying to tell you.

[willow.8209]

On 8/27/2023 at 10:06 PM, Linken.6345 said:

The thing is when timer runs out you get it completed no matter if you have just run back in forth in the starting area.

yea it hasn't worked like that for me. I fail to complete even though I'm trying to complete the entire time.

And yes, throwing stuff that's specifically intended to hinder other players, does hinder other players. Unless that's bugged too. 

Edit: okay, I know you were trying to help, and maybe I might try this again but there are so many problems with this new system, that cheesing a single objective (even if it were consistently possible) isn't really the answer.

ANet, like any company who does business with the general public, is legally required to change policy, invent new tech, or whatever it takes to make their game accessible. (As long as the accessibility request isn't for something that would make them go bankrupt, or change what kind of business they are). 

Edited August 30, 2023 by willow.8209
remove unnecessary bits, add explainer

[willow.8209]

edit above

[willow.8209]

some of these confuse emotes crack me up.

[willow.8209]

2 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

The thing is when timer runs out you get it completed no matter if you have just run back in forth in the starting area.

You have to do something since just standing around will kick you for inactivty.

You have to wait for the activity to reset aswell and not exit to early.

So yea you cant hinder anyones progress in any of the activities thats what Im trying to tell you.

So I was curious and I tried this out with today's activity, crab toss. I just ran back and forth or around in circles the entire length of the match. Another player was in the match, too, appeared as an enemy to me, but the other player could not gain any points. The match ended, no drops. No achieves, nothing.

I continued to run around thinking I might try to find out how to do it or what wasn't working;. Was teleported to a new instance, no foe this time. I read the directions (I do really like that they have directions now to things like this) more carefully, and tried to do the thing. 

Crab toss is bugged too. You can run up to the crab and it gives you a notify to interact, but interacting does nothing. No points without the crab. Evidently, no credit without points. 

Some of the special skills you get are specifically meant to hinder other players, same as the other activity I have tried. It's clearly a pvp game mode. I shouldn't be getting PvP for dailies because I unticked that box. 

(btw I edited where i quoted you last time)

Edited August 28, 2023 by willow.8209