Maybe hinting a new class? (spoilers)

[tryme.6295]

Anyone else noticed the sunspear guy we rescue from the prison is pretty much a bard with a javelin? He gives buffs as songs and uses spear as an actual on ground weapon. I found that pretty interesting. So the question is, is that a hint towards a new class/spec just like Marjory was with the greatsword necromancy or Rytlock disappearing into the mists?

[Eldrake.1543]

Maybe it's an elite specialization, though I am not sure which profession would fit a "Bard with a Spear" elite specialization.

[Ronin.7381]

Probably, maybe Guardian gets Scythes as a Dervish or something.

@Eldrake.1543 said:Maybe it's an elite specialization, though I am not sure which profession would fit a "Bard with a Spear" elite specialization.Possibly Ranger? Bards along with Assassins tend to fall into the same DPS categories of Scouts in MMOs.

[Tamias.7059]

So, for those who weren't around in GW1, these are the descendants of paragons. In lore, we're told that Joko banned the use of spears on land, and also IIRC in Sea of Sorrows we're told that the traditions of the paragon were absorbed into those of the guardian. Apparently they're back now, but if we were going to see them as an elite spec I'd have kind of expected them to be one with PoF's release (we don't actually see any paragons in PoF like we do in LWS4), as I kind of wasn't expecting us to still be in Elona for the next expansion.

Adding spears/scythes as elite spec weapons to a bunch of classes in the next expansion would be awesome, but I'm not convinced it'll happen. For spears, they'd probably have to introduce a new weapon type of throwing spear, as they're smaller than the underwater ones and a lot of the underwater ones are nautical-themed (how would the legendary work, for example?). It'd be kind of confusing to have two similarly-named weapon types, although I guess we already have swords and greatswords. Scythes are sadly even less likely, as ANet have committed to implementing scythes as staff skins so far.

If we see a new weapon type implemented as an elite spec weapon, my money's still on polearm for now (although less likely now that ANet have shown they're comfortable using a staff as a martial weapon with revenant and daredevil). But hey, who knows?

EDIT: While we're idly speculating...if we saw a dervish I reckon it'd be as a staff elite spec (yes, another!) for ranger. Medium armour, connection to nature, dervishes used to use staves before they used scythes, it all kind of fits. Problems is that ranger already has a staff elite spec (although it'd be used in a considerably different way), so that deprives them of getting another new weapon, and also dervishes were very heavily themed around the Six, which makes them kind of inappropriate for non-human characters (ANet are a bit more relaxed with this than they used to be - a lot of the PoF specs are kind of human-centric). Mechanics would probably revolve around stacking/stripping buffs, similar to GW1, and possibly transforms into avatars of the Gods (possibly the Spirits of the Wild/representation of the Eternal Alchemy/something else for other races? That'd be super neat).

If we saw paragon as an elite spec it'd be spear on guardian or warrior. They already have shouts, so I imagine the unique mechanic would revolve around timing shouts correctly to keep constant upkeep and maintaining them with adrenaline or some other resource, similar to the common usage case Imbagon from GW1.

EDIT 2: The other thing we see a lot of, alongside paragons and dervishes in LWS4, is alchemists. Were these a planned class for Nightfall that got scrapped, similar to the chronomancer and summoner? I guess I could see that as an elite spec for the engineer.

[Ronin.7381]

We also got to see a Dervish, another hint maybe for the future. Although I wonder just how long we'll be waiting - are they really going to give us an expansion next Fall?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Eldrake.1543 said:Maybe it's an elite specialization, though I am not sure which profession would fit a "Bard with a Spear" elite specialization.

Mesmer. In lore they have a long history of being actors and playwrights especially in Tyria and Elona.

If our next expansion is also Elonian or goes into the Blood Legion Homelands (thus filling out the current world map more), then it would make sense to get scythes, land spears, and a bard elite spec.

However, I am a bit doubtful that it's an elite specialization hint but rather like many other NPCs we see, a sign that this guy is a Paragon. They used shouts, ballads, and chants as a means to buff allies with a throwing spear main weapon. Being a Sunspear, many of which were paragons, it makes sense that they continued the tradition despite their teachings melding with monks in Tyria, and Joko banning the use of spears.

In addition, they're too similar to Spellbreaker and base Guardian in both lore and mechanics that it would be a bit weird for Paragons and Dervishes to make a fullblown return. Not impossible though. I could see rangers becoming dervishes, and guardians becoming paragons in the next expansion. I just find it unlikely.

[Cwnannwn.7681]

fwiw dervish is easy to implement as melee staff, the problem is more with spears; if only they merged underwater skins and their respective land weapon skins (I figure trident/staff, harpoon/rifle and spear/gs or something like that)

Paragons are definitely too guardiany to be a new elite for anyone else, though, especially considering guardians are literally, in-lore, described as monks who picked up paragon training with the influx of elonians fleeing to kryta.

[draxynnic.3719]

From my observation of the Paragons in Istan, they pretty much felt like variant Guardians. Anthem of Flame is really just vanilla VoJ active in effect, and I think I saw the enemy Paragons generating symbols, although I may be mistaken in that respect.

The regular enemy dervishes felt a bit like variant reapers, albeit using scythes as their primary weapon instead of greatswords and not having Reaper Shroud at all. Warden Amala is, of course, a pretty significant exception, but while some of the PoF elites have clearly been created by humans, none of them are as strongly tied to human culture and religion as dervish avatars.

While it could be an indication of what might be coming in the future, I'd have to say that my guess is that the paragons and dervishes are there more for nostalgia for the past, and, bosses excepted, they're pretty much just putting a new coat of paint on things that already existed in GW2.

The alchemists essentially felt to me like primitive engineers, only having the potions and explosives rather than any of the more technical stuff.

[Cwnannwn.7681]

If anything the dervishes feel like what rev is desperately trying and failing to be.

[Dondarrion.2748]

@tryme.6295 said:Anyone else noticed the sunspear guy we rescue from the prison is pretty much a bard with a javelin? He gives buffs as songs and uses spear as an actual on ground weapon. I found that pretty interesting. So the question is, is that a hint towards a new class/spec just like Marjory was with the greatsword necromancy or Rytlock disappearing into the mists?

Definite throw-back to the Guild Wars Paragon with Anthem of Flame so if anything, maybe these Dervishes and Paragons we're seeing are hints to future elite specializations that might come with third xpac?

[Tseison.4659]

I really loved seeing the Paragons and Dervish’ and it made me wonder if when we go to Cantha that we might bump into Ritualists and even Razah.

But going into people saying possible new elites. I personally don’t think so since when PoF came out, we got what we were given sadly. HOWEVER, what if they introduced the spear and scythe weapons to every or certain classes just as something baseline and gave new utilities too so then they weren’t bound to being new elite specs?

Necromancer - ScytheElementalist - SpearMesmer - Spear

Engineer - SpearThief - Spear/ScytheRanger - Spear

Warrior - Spear/ScytheGuardian - SpearRevenant - Spear/Scythe

As an added note, they can just make Dervish inspired attacks/utilities - same with Paragons. They can also have it where Revenants can channel energies of the gods perhaps as they can represent being “legends”.

Just a thought. :)

[Artyport.2084]

seeing paragons really made me super jealous.I'm really hoping for a singer/dancer/bard elite spec or class.

[Ronin.7381]

I'm just waiting for Thieves to be able to wield Greatswords to be honest. That and maybe a Staff for Warrior or something as a Monk so I can use more karate gimmicks.

Joking aside. Monks, Paragons, Dervishes, Assassins - there's some old professions they could eventually bring back as Elite Specs. But it is getting to the point where Elite Specs will seem bland without the introduction of new weapons (Scythes, Pikes/polearm/lances, etc)

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Ronin.7381 said:Probably, maybe Guardian gets Scythes as a Dervish or something.

@Eldrake.1543 said:Maybe it's an elite specialization, though I am not sure which profession would fit a "Bard with a Spear" elite specialization.Possibly Ranger? Bards along with Assassins tend to fall into the same DPS categories of Scouts in MMOs.

Seriously Rangers have got enough cool stuff the past couple years, maybe give it Thieves since they have no support trait line.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Tseison.4659 said:But going into people saying possible new elites. I personally don’t think so since when PoF came out, we got what we were given sadly.

Not necessarily, actually. ArenaNet could have taken the attitude that in PoF we only had the opportunity to learn those elite specialisations that were found on the outskirts of Elona, where most of PoF is set. They could, then, use Season 4 to introduce us to NPCs with new fighting styles, which eventually become new elite specialisations that we will have the opportunity to master in the next expansion pack.

Now, I still think it's probably more likely that the paragons and dervishes are there for nostalgia purposes rather than hinting at things to come, but just because they weren't used for elite specs in PoF doesn't mean they won't be for the next expansion.

[Ronin.7381]

Well we do have to keep in mind that Majory, love her or hate her, was in fact a hint of the Reaper for Necromancer. Come to think of it, the Reavers in Heart of Thorns could be argued that they were hints for Deadeyes. I wouldn't put it past them to give us Para & Derv for whatever Expansion is to follow.

Moving forward, I am curious how long it'll be before they run out of ideas. I mean surely, there's DnD with plethora of profession names Arenanet's team could draw inspiration from. But eventually they'll all start feeling the same, I wouldn't be surprised if all of a sudden we end up with a limited amount of new weapons and the new Elite Specs share them. Hahaha

[Fluffball.8307]

The abilities of the first spear were way too powerful for an elite spec IMO. It was just flavor and a callback to GW1. Really fun to see paras and dervishes, but they're not coming back.

[Ronin.7381]

@Fluffball.8307 said:The abilities of the first spear were way too powerful for an elite spec IMO. It was just flavor and a callback to GW1. Really fun to see paras and dervishes, but they're not coming back.

That doesn't mean anything though, damage numbers can be scaled accordingly for player characters. It's just a matter of tweaking numerical values.

@draxynnic.3719 said:I still think it's probably more likely that the paragons and dervishes are there for nostalgia purposes rather than hinting at things to come, but just because they weren't used for elite specs in PoF doesn't mean they won't be for the next expansion.

I like to think it was intentional. At least for a Paragon-like spec in the future. The whole Collection quest for the Griffon (The Sunspear's Mascot) is... I forget the word but I guess - a reboot (?) for bringing the Sunspears back to power. They were Elona's protectors until Abaddon came along and got all up in Varesh's head.Dervish on the other hand, we haven't since much story for them. We just see enemies with scythes who have unique scales - which reminds me of the Pale Reavers from Heart of Thorns - which may have likely been a coincidental inspiration for our now existing Deadeyes.

Granted, we may get different names but I think the core concepts would be revitalized as specs for the next expansion. Dervish just has less going for it until we actually get more story elements for them. I definitely think Arenanet had something in mind for Paragons though since PoF's development.

[draxynnic.3719]

It's certainly possible, as I acknowledged myself. I wouldn't necessarily say that Paragons have more story than Dervishes, though. They have the 'preferred profession for Sunspear officers' thing going for them, but dervishes also had some backstory in GW1.

The biggest issue for dervishes is that I would be very surprised if ArenaNet introduces scythes as player weapons after not doing so with the Reaper, which is essentially a Grenth dervish in playstyle as well as having a theme that is arguably closer linked to scythes than the dervish as a whole.

Now, there isn't a similar 'missed opportunity' for paragons, but the observation that ArenaNet doesn't seem to be eager to introduce new weapons may still be in play. It wouldn't surprise me if we see new elite specialisations that we can point at and say "this is inspired by Paragons". However, I don't think we'll see a straight-up Paragon elite specialisation. Even if land spears ARE introduced as a future weapon, I expect that ArenaNet would want to give it to multiple professions in order to justify the expense rather than sticking to just one or two.