Collection of new SoTO lore *spoilers obviously*

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Dreamreaver.4908 said:

@Kalavier.1097

I've seen that note, yes. Within it, Chrysanthea is already mentioned to be a Duchess, complete with her own faction, and when you see her in Dragon's Stand, even as Faolain is dead, she's still just a Duchess. (On a side note, getting to that rank to begin with involves Faolain's say and thus would make her a part of the inner circle, but that's neither here nor there). Granted, Chrysanthea's lane was scrapped, and you see no other courtiers out there, so a lot of speculation could be had...

We don't know if the attacks have lessened because she took over or if they've just run out of members. Or if Mordremoth's experience has them all shaken. Nothing's set in stone. "Very likely to seize power" and "seized power" are two different things.

Also wouldn't know if she swayed anyone or if they just respect rank as per their ways. For all we know there could be others of rank somewhere about!

But, yes. I was looking for more solid evidence of things and not maybe-maybe nots. The writing very often provides the former.

I would note that Faolain only fully died while the Commander was already in Dragon's Stand, and the meta is supposed to be more-or-less synchronous with the story steps in that map. So while we didn't get the Nightmare Court lane, it's quite reasonable to expect that the Nightmare Court either didn't know Faolain was dead, and even if they did, they hadn't had the opportunity to adjust their hierarchy accordingly yet. Even if you consider Faolain to have been "off the board" from before then (considering that we found her in a mordrem cage), it had probably only been a few weeks at most.

And if she was the only surviving Duke or Duchess, she might not have to formally claim the title of Grand Duchess to be the de facto leader.

[Kalavier.1097]

8 hours ago, Dreamreaver.4908 said:

@Kalavier.1097

I've seen that note, yes. Within it, Chrysanthea is already mentioned to be a Duchess, complete with her own faction, and when you see her in Dragon's Stand, even as Faolain is dead, she's still just a Duchess. (On a side note, getting to that rank to begin with involves Faolain's say and thus would make her a part of the inner circle, but that's neither here nor there). Granted, Chrysanthea's lane was scrapped, and you see no other courtiers out there, so a lot of speculation could be had...

We don't know if the attacks have lessened because she took over or if they've just run out of members. Or if Mordremoth's experience has them all shaken. Nothing's set in stone. "Very likely to seize power" and "seized power" are two different things.

Also wouldn't know if she swayed anyone or if they just respect rank as per their ways. For all we know there could be others of rank somewhere about!

But, yes. I was looking for more solid evidence of things and not maybe-maybe nots. The writing very often provides the former.

It's not been implied the Sylvari population took a drastic hit from Heart of Thorns, but with the season 1 addon explaining how Chrysanthea's view of the world is, and SOTO having a note that explicitly says the Nightmare Court attacks have lessened to a notable decree, it makes sense that she is currently the majority leader.

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I would note that Faolain only fully died while the Commander was already in Dragon's Stand, and the meta is supposed to be more-or-less synchronous with the story steps in that map. So while we didn't get the Nightmare Court lane, it's quite reasonable to expect that the Nightmare Court either didn't know Faolain was dead, and even if they did, they hadn't had the opportunity to adjust their hierarchy accordingly yet. Even if you consider Faolain to have been "off the board" from before then (considering that we found her in a mordrem cage), it had probably only been a few weeks at most.

And if she was the only surviving Duke or Duchess, she might not have to formally claim the title of Grand Duchess to be the de facto leader.

Heart of Thorns lasted 43 days/six weeks from start to finish. We can only assume she was captured in the intro day alongside the nightmare courtiers with her that are found in Verdant brink very early on, as it's implied she's still active around nightmare court grounds in season 1 (Due to her reaction to the severe splintering of the court after Twilight Arbor). The two major groups listed of strength are the Toxic Alliance and Chrysanthea's faction.

Interestingly, there are no other named Dukes or Duchesses. The Count/Countesses we know were all killed in Twilight Arbor, and the Baron/Baronesses we know are from the toxic alliance.

So it's really that she's the only known high ranking Nightmare Courtier to not die, and it's completely believable why with the season 1 letter. And that the last update of the court is behaving exactly like her viewpoints? I'd honestly be surprised if they did say she was not the current leader/Grand Duchess.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

Well, as I've said, that's all guess work. Probable, sure, and that's fine, but still nothing saying "the Nightmare court is now XYZ". That is what I'm looking for, but for the state of Tyria, not just the court.

Now, if staying with speculation, Chrysanthea being wary of the Pact (which took a huge blow at the time too) and attacks lessening on the Grove are like apples and oranges. They had all of PoF and EoD to strike while the Pact was distracted if they were the primary concern. I'd imagine both sides were just rebuilding.

 

Also, a name like Chrysanthea doesn't strike me as a sylvari NPC that was ever planned to be developed much. Just picked a flower, changed it a little, and called it a day.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Dreamreaver.4908

[Kalavier.1097]

6 minutes ago, Dreamreaver.4908 said:

Well, as I've said, that's all guess work. Probable, sure, and that's fine, but still nothing saying "the Nightmare court is now XYZ". That is what I'm looking for, but for the state of Tyria, not just the court.

Now, if staying with speculation, Chrysanthea being wary of the Pact (which took a huge blow at the time too) and attacks lessening on the Grove are like apples and oranges. They had all of PoF and EoD to strike while the Pact was distracted if they were the primary concern. I'd imagine both sides were just rebuilding.

 

Also, a name like Chrysanthea doesn't strike me as a sylvari NPC that was ever planned to be developed much. Just picked a flower, changed it a little, and called it a day.

 

 

She's concerned about all of Tyria's factions, not just the pact. "So concerned that Tyria will tire of our darker exploration, hunt us down, and burn us away as a fire does the undergrowth." The writer of the letter (A toxic courtier) speculates that the Pact may bring an era of order, but that's their own speculation. 

The Pact has taken heavy beatings at Orr, Maguuma, and in the Shiverpeaks and came back every single time rebuilding and recruiting. Nothing is entirely certain sure, but literally the information laid out from recent releases all points in a singular direction.

The Nightmare Court only has a single main target, the Pale Tree. They don't care about targeting other factions or conquering land. Their goal is to spread nightmare and you can't spread nightmare into a human or Asura.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

@Kalavier.1097
Well, fair enough on the concerned about Tyria point. Read through it too fast, but yes I've still seen the letter before.

 

Though I don't know how else to explain that I'm looking for absolutes instead of "very likely this," and was seeing if people found some juicy lore in SotO that gave more attention to present Tyria than a couple lines amounting to "peaceful, rebuilding, and now there's rifts."

 

Also: the Nightmare Court's biggest ambition is corrupting the Pale Tree, but they'll spread nightmare (or rather suffering and pain) anywhere. When it comes to corrupting the Dream of Dreams with more painful memories, the best target is other sylvari certainly, though that can also be achieved by an indirect means like, say, corrupting the Terebinth tree, a revered landmark to sylvari that could dishearten them. They've also tormented Skritt, Mosshearts, and Hylek. (And technically everyone in Kessex Hills). But I feel that's enough derailing. 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:00 PM, Dreamreaver.4908 said:

Looking for more tidbits about the state of the rest of Tyria unrelated to the Horn of Maguuma: enemies, cities, any such magical anomalies and the consequences of the world being in its highest magical state in history.

So far, all I've gathered was "very peaceful until rifts started appearing."

Only thing I've seen other than references to incursion rifts here and there by Forbe, is that there have been political calls for further globalization and unification efforts as mentioned by the Canthan reporter at the end.

On 9/1/2023 at 1:54 PM, mandala.8507 said:

Another fun one is that Lhyr's power to split himself is the same as Glint's faceting power.

And he seems to have been very good friends (😉) with someone named Rand Waylit.

Not really the same since Glint never actually split herself. The idea of "facets" was never a unique thing to her - even Kralk had facets reflecting the power he absorbed, for example, but like Glint he wasn't literally splitting himself into two separate thinking and physical beings like going from one person to twins.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

I see... 😞Thank you, Konig.

[draxynnic.3719]

I think Lhyr's splitting power is compared to Glint's facets in-game... but just because an NPC makes the connection doesn't mean it's accurate.

Edited September 5, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Trejgon.9367]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:48 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think Lhyr's splitting power is compared to Glint's facets in-game... but just because an NPC makes the connection doesn't mean it's accurate.

The only connection I saw in-game was the name -split variants of Lyhr are called Facets, and Glint has facets, I did not found yet any in-game dialogue trying to express the connection between Lhyr's facets and Glint's facets.

[Kalavier.1097]

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

The only connection I saw in-game was the name -split variants of Lyhr are called Facets, and Glint has facets, I did not found yet any in-game dialogue trying to express the connection between Lhyr's facets and Glint's facets.

It seems more linked to Kanaxai, where each facet was an aspect of emotion/personality trait then magic schools. 

Like how we break down facets of Cerus to weaken him, or removed corruption/negative facets from isgarren.

[Bast.7253]

9 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

It seems more linked to Kanaxai, where each facet was an aspect of emotion/personality trait then magic schools. 

Like how we break down facets of Cerus to weaken him, or removed corruption/negative facets from isgarren.

There are also these:
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Path_to_Revelations
Though I'm not sure what the pertain to or if they have any relation. Given it's in Eye of the North and the Eye of the North was potentially built by Seers, I wouldn't think it's too far off to think there could be some relation. 

This also appears to be the same language that the boss speaks in the Deldrimor fractal. Some new tongue we haven't encountered anywhere else in game though I don't think they've expanded on any of this yet.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Bast.7253

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

The only connection I saw in-game was the name -split variants of Lyhr are called Facets, and Glint has facets, I did not found yet any in-game dialogue trying to express the connection between Lhyr's facets and Glint's facets.

It gets mentioned in the Waylit Beacon collection. It's easily missed dialogue, though, and it's presented as hearsay from characters who probably don't really understand how the process works for Lhyr or Glint.

[Trejgon.9367]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It gets mentioned in the Waylit Beacon collection. It's easily missed dialogue, though, and it's presented as hearsay from characters who probably don't really understand how the process works for Lhyr or Glint.

oh, makes sense, I didn't do that collection yet so that's why I didn't see it yet.

[Kalavier.1097]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It gets mentioned in the Waylit Beacon collection. It's easily missed dialogue, though, and it's presented as hearsay from characters who probably don't really understand how the process works for Lhyr or Glint.

More things to look forward to lol.

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

oh, makes sense, I didn't do that collection yet so that's why I didn't see it yet.

Yeah I finished the story, but haven't done anything on the second map really (did the meta twice because I entered map as it finished) or did the weapons/extra lore stuff. Yay RL making things a pain.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

18 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

There are also these:
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Path_to_Revelations
Though I'm not sure what the pertain to or if they have any relation. Given it's in Eye of the North and the Eye of the North was potentially built by Seers, I wouldn't think it's too far off to think there could be some relation. 

This also appears to be the same language that the boss speaks in the Deldrimor fractal. Some new tongue we haven't encountered anywhere else in game though I don't think they've expanded on any of this yet.

Those facets reflect the Six Gods, tied to the Forgotten, and were a hint to power they once tapped into (in GW2, revealed to be that they tapped into Zhaitan to power the Bloodstone). The final dialogue in that, btw, is referencing Arah as confirmed by Jeff Grubb years later, and the "answers" of the explorable dungeon (which, in all honesty, did more to open more questions and devalue the Six Gods' merits).

13 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It gets mentioned in the Waylit Beacon collection. It's easily missed dialogue, though, and it's presented as hearsay from characters who probably don't really understand how the process works for Lhyr or Glint.

For reference for those who haven't seen it and don't know where to look on wiki:

Riley Waylit: Eh…Rumor was he could create facets of himself, like Glint. Pure gossip if you ask me.

Really all that's said in that questline, but yeah it doesn't really answer any questions or... really make much sense to me as GW2 shows that the facets were just crystal dragon minions Glint created - Glint's equivalent of sylvari, in effect. So I'd toss this up as unreliable narrator, personally.

[draxynnic.3719]

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Those facets reflect the Six Gods, tied to the Forgotten, and were a hint to power they once tapped into (in GW2, revealed to be that they tapped into Zhaitan to power the Bloodstone). The final dialogue in that, btw, is referencing Arah as confirmed by Jeff Grubb years later, and the "answers" of the explorable dungeon (which, in all honesty, did more to open more questions and devalue the Six Gods' merits).

For reference for those who haven't seen it and don't know where to look on wiki:

Riley Waylit: Eh…Rumor was he could create facets of himself, like Glint. Pure gossip if you ask me.

Really all that's said in that questline, but yeah it doesn't really answer any questions or... really make much sense to me as GW2 shows that the facets were just crystal dragon minions Glint created - Glint's equivalent of sylvari, in effect. So I'd toss this up as unreliable narrator, personally.

Even the source dismisses it as gossip. I think the interpretation there is that the characters in question don't know the difference - Glint has facets, Lhyr has facets, so the comparison is made. When in truth they're very different - Lhyr is literally splitting himself in two, while Glint's facets do not appear to be significant parts of her being and can be killed without harming her.

[mandala.8507]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Even the source dismisses it as gossip. I think the interpretation there is that the characters in question don't know the difference - Glint has facets, Lhyr has facets, so the comparison is made. When in truth they're very different - Lhyr is literally splitting himself in two, while Glint's facets do not appear to be significant parts of her being and can be killed without harming her.

This is a common comedic device: the casual brushing off of a rumor we, the audience, know to be true. Anet does it a lot. The joke is that by the time we're doing this quest, we know that Lyhr actually does have a faceting power similar to that of Glint, and so it's supposed to be funny.

The earliest instance of this type of joke I can think of is from Divinity's Reach where ambient dialogue at the front of the city has some dude saying he doesn't believe in dragons and thinks they're a myth. What's great about it is that after End of Dragons you get ported to this exact area for the follow-up instance in the Dead End Bar, and I was lucky enough to trigger the line on my first playthrough.

It got a good laugh out of me. A joke that took 10 years to land, but it landed just right.