Delete Rabid Amulet

[aymnad.9023]

14 hours ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

But those traits aren’t problematic on power berserker. They’re only problematic combined with very high armor values that rabid provides.

The traits are a problem on power too. Most full damage build have fallen off since they do not have enough sustain but berserker did make it through because it has sustain without any investment.

On EU I have noticed quite a few (top) players on power.

Edited September 3, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Rainbow Dragon.7268]

whats this another power player complaining about a condi build?

"cries in chaotic transference"

condi berserker about to be yeeted cause power players cant handle condi?

[Dreams.3128]

On 9/2/2023 at 8:10 AM, TheBigPlay.7504 said:

For god sakes, remove this amulet is so unhealthy for the game. 900 toughness on a heavy armor class.

Ah yes, you must be one of the people that told Anet to get rid of the support amulets back in the day. No wonder they're so happy with making crappy amulets that do nothing for anyone. 

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Rainbow Dragon.7268 said:

whats this another power player complaining about a condi build?

"cries in chaotic transference"

condi berserker about to be yeeted cause power players cant handle condi?

Just about all condi builds are also tanky af, and there are limited counters to condi spam. If im not mistaken, antitoxin was a must in wvw which highlights the issue. In sPVP, even on vindi rev, which has the highest clense I am aware of.. you still can't out clense faster than it can be reaplied by a solid condi spec. Given that condi is applied over time, you can't ''just dodge'' it like a power burst, so their needs to be a decent mechanical counter, and their mostly isnt. The only real counter for a lot of powe specs is to kill the condi spec fast, which just tilts the power meta into burst and glass. Why play a power sustain class that has no condi clense?.. its asking to be hard countered against a condi sustain that often has decent power mitigation.

 

I played both condi and power btw, I don't mind the concept or playstyle of either

Edited September 3, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

The traits are a problem on power too.

Hard disagree. Explain why you think that.

Quote

Most full damage build have fallen off since they do not have enough sustain but berserker did make it through because it has sustain without any investment.

*squints at the current meta*

Quote

On EU I have noticed quite a few (top) players on power.

Does this mean anything?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[aymnad.9023]

20 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Hard disagree. Explain why you think that.

You literally have the explanation right after. Sustain is covered while keeping burst.

20 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*squints at the current meta*

I have no clue what you are trying to say here. Do you agree or disagree? If you did look at what was played during last mat you have noticed that most builds are no longer full damage builds (scepter cata, scrapper are gone [edit : same in ranked]) but instead bruisers combining high damage and sustain.

20 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Does this mean anything?

That the patch shifted things and this build is definitely stronger than you seem to think.

Edited September 3, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

19 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

You literally have the explanation right after. Sustain is covered while keeping burst.

The explanation doesn't work for power zerker.

Most power builds have to strike you with something less nebulous than (the condi ticks already on you from fire/confusion procs) and thus benefit less from Dead or Alive and Eternal Champion. Most power builds also:

• Cant take a ton of toughness because they need that stat space for precision and ferocity
• Need to hit you with a burst skill to activate adrenal health (as opposed to the ground, which is much easier to hit and activate Adrenal with.)

The scenario is much different for power compared to condi. One of those can camp you and force you to approach into a situation where you will take damage that they can heal off of, the other cannot.

Quote

I have no clue what you are trying to say here. Do you agree or disagree? If you did look at what was played during last mat you have noticed that most builds are no longer full damage builds (scepter cata, scrapper) but instead bruisers combining high damage and sustain.

Berserker isn't a full damage build either. The current meta one takes defense and a 900 toughness amulet, and glass zerk is nonexistent on most of the currently rated builds. (way down in test atm, because antitoxin may do something for it)

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That the patch shifted things and this build is definitely stronger than you seem to think.

"some Top players in EU run it" doesn't mean anything. Is there any solid proof that power zerk is performing well enough to justify doing anything to the traits right this second, beyond "you saw some people play it once"?

Condi I can understand, because it's yet another spin on  (I stand on point and dont move) snoozefest. I think claiming power is problematic for the same reasons is overextending though. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[aymnad.9023]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The explanation doesn't work for power zerker.

Most power builds have to strike you with something less nebulous than (the condi ticks already on you from fire/confusion procs) and thus benefit less from Dead or Alive and Eternal Champion. Most power builds also:

• Cant take a ton of toughness because they need that stat space for precision and ferocity
• Need to hit you with a burst skill to activate adrenal health (as opposed to the ground, which is much easier to hit and activate Adrenal with.)

The scenario is much different for power compared to condi. One of those can camp you and force you to approach into a situation where you will take damage that they can heal off of, the other cannot.

Berserker isn't a full damage build either. The current meta one takes defense and a 900 toughness amulet, and glass zerk is nonexistent on most of the currently rated builds. (way down in test atm, because antitoxin may do something for it)

"some Top players in EU run it" doesn't mean anything. Is there any solid proof that power zerk is performing well enough to justify doing anything to the traits right this second, beyond "you saw some people play it once"?

Condi I can understand, because it's yet another spin on  (I stand on point and dont move) snoozefest. I think claiming power is problematic for the same reasons is overextending though. 

Saying that it is not as strong because it is not condi berserker (and you never saw it) is really stretching it or maybe you have better suggestions of trait for a power berserker other than:

Stab (helps to hit) + a way to refresh endurance (sustain) / resistance (damage) + another physical damage immunity (no need for toughness) + another way to heal

All of the above are why it does not matter if you miss some sustain of adrenal health or do not have toughness. You have enough ways to mitigate condi, power all while having the ability to burst anyone.

I cannot tell if it will show up in tournaments or not. But right now it definitely stands really close to the strongest builds (as in it is way above most of the builds) and would need to have something shaved.

Edited September 3, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

34 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Saying that it is not as strong because it is not condi berserker (and you never saw it) is really stretching it or maybe you have better suggestions of trait for a power berserker other than:

Stab (helps to hit) + a way to refresh endurance (sustain) / resistance (damage) + another physical damage immunity (no need for toughness) + another way to heal

That's not stretching it at all, I think the current trait lineup is fine for power zerker, according to what I previously commented. If the trait was carrying, power zerker would have match presence, but it doesn't for some reason.

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All of the above are why it does not matter if you miss some sustain of adrenal health or do not have toughness. You have enough ways to mitigate condi, power all while having the ability to burst anyone.

Nope, it matters. We tried this line of reasoning before. Zerker used to remove toughness on entry, and we found out that doing so made the class function poorly, despite most of the immunities remaining the same between then and now.

Otherwise zerker wouldn't have needed a rework in the first place. Power zerk still has no match presence even now, despite it being more usable.

Quote

I cannot tell if it will show up in tournaments or not. But right now it definitely stands really close to the strongest builds (as in it is way above most of the builds) and would need to have something shaved.

This comes off as "I want it shaved but justification for it doesn't exist." If it stands really close to the strongest builds, show it. I'm tired of people trying to preemptively get warrior nerfed for potential problems that may arise in the future, when there's overperforming builds nuking people for 20k from stealth by yanking them off of buildings right now. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

"some Top players in EU run it" doesn't mean anything. Is there any solid proof that power zerk is performing well enough to justify doing anything to the traits right this second, beyond "you saw some people play it once"?

Some people are using them lately.

Since SOTO release, I'm seeing a lot of Rifle Serk play being used in ATs. Things have shifted in meta tactics to where the best strategy now, is which team can land a full team stealth gank before the other, to create snowball. Teams that zerg together with a ton of high DPS are absolutely smashing teams who are still trying to play classic job roles. Rifle Serk is actually good at this when he is rolling with a coordinated team that pushes in hard to give him opening.

The ones I've seen are specifically running that new relic that overcharges the might stack to +25% efficiency when they go to land their series of unblockables. It is an actual "one-shot" if you get hit by that gunflame. Even the condi burn side of it hits hard because of +25% might effect.

It's annoying because it's an easy jank play style. You have a situation where when he comes in like that, specifically if he follows around his stealthers like a Scrapper as example, the serker can be a relatively mediocre player who knows he's going to die, but he'll sure as hell put 2 people into downstate before someone puts him into downstate. This build is even annoyingly dangerous when it gets up on vengeance because all it has to do is tap you once.

The build is compromising for players who know they are going to get outplayed regardless of what they play. The Rifle Serk in this case is like "the suicide bomber" approach. If you know you're going to die, just make sure you have a method to take a person or two out with you. That's exactly what it is.

~ But about your discussion concerning sustain, I'm not exactly seeing sturdy sustain coming from these builds. They have what they need to survive long enough to do what they do, but their sustain is nothing in the realm of Condiserk or Bladesworn.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

25 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Some people are using them lately.

Since SOTO release, I'm seeing a lot of Rifle Serk play being used in ATs. Things have shifted in meta tactics to where the best strategy now, is which team can land a full team stealth gank before the other, to create snowball. Teams that zerg together with a ton of high DPS are absolutely smashing teams who are still trying to play classic job roles. Rifle Serk is actually good at this when he is rolling with a coordinated team that pushes in hard to give him opening.

The ones I've seen are specifically running that new relic that overcharges the might stack to +25% efficiency when they go to land their series of unblockables. It is an actual "one-shot" if you get hit by that gunflame. Even the condi burn side of it hits hard because of +25% might effect.

It's annoying because it's an easy jank play style. You have a situation where when he comes in like that, specifically if he follows around his stealthers like a Scrapper as example, the serker can be a relatively mediocre player who knows he's going to die, but he'll sure as hell put 2 people into downstate before someone puts him into downstate. This build is even annoyingly dangerous when it gets up on vengeance because all it has to do is tap you once.

The build is compromising for players who know they are going to get outplayed regardless of what they play. The Rifle Serk in this case is like "the suicide bomber" approach. If you know you're going to die, just make sure you have a method to take a person or two out with you. That's exactly what it is.

kitten that's crazy, which trait should be nerfed to stop yolo rifle warriors this time?

Quote

Things have shifted in meta tactics to where the best strategy now, is which team can land a full team stealth gank before the other, to create snowball.

This isn't new. If a team wants to spend their cooldowns to stealth a yolo warrior, that is an external scenario that requires a 2 person commitment. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261
*eye roll*

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

34 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

kitten that's crazy, which trait should be nerfed to stop yolo rifle warriors this time?

I don't even think it's that.

I think we are fast approaching another point in patching where we are gonna need that -33% CMC damage buffer to turn into a -50% buffer.

This is likely the answer for spvp. I actually like high damage metas, but most people get raged when damage in the game is just too high amongst all classes.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

14 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I don't even think it's that.

I think we are fast approaching another point in patching where we are gonna need that -33% CMC damage buffer to turn into a -50% buffer.

This is likely the answer for spvp. I actually like high damage metas, but most people get raged when damage in the game is just too high amongst all classes.

I disagree with this too.

It's not all classes. A couple of them can delete people immediately, and those should be adjusted in a way that makes them -not- do that. A blanket nerf to all classes is not needed, just the ones players cannot respond to before they die.

If people shared this sentiment we wouldnt have quotes like this:

Quote

Most full damage build have fallen off since they do not have enough sustain

-Or people lamenting that certain specs are too sustainy. The option for these exists, but there are obvious and specific outliers that the people upset about the damage in the meta are referring to. 

on glass amulet, I decap people for 6-7k. True shot hits for 6-7k. even DE takes a fair amount of time to gun people down. There's classes opening for 15-20k on their own.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[TheBigPlay.7504]

And you're the type of player who plays condi bunker builds yikes...  @Rainbow Dragon.7268

Edited September 3, 2023 by TheBigPlay.7504

[Kuma.1503]

*Stirs Tea* ☕

Y'know what. I agree. 

We should get rid of Carrion too while we're at it. 900 in any defensive stat is too much. 

I came out the womb with nothing but a zerker amulet and my bare fists and I turned out fine. 

[Flowki.7194]

Its really quite sad that despite the weapon expation, despite all the specs/playstyles that could be possible, sPVP (in my experiance) is currently comming down to a few burst specs that make next to everything else unplayable, just ''meat shields'' while the game gets decided by 1 or 2 players of those specs. Might aswel just send out the burst player from each team, let them duel, and call it game on who wins.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[JTGuevara.9018]

20 hours ago, TheBigPlay.7504 said:

 the spec is busted, but the amulet makes him super tank. While he's able to 1v2 and face tank everything

So fix the spec, don't take away the amulet from everybody.

(sigh)...why are people so short-sighted these days?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

23 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

*Stirs Tea* ☕

Y'know what. I agree. 

We should get rid of Carrion too while we're at it. 900 in any defensive stat is too much. 

I came out the womb with nothing but a zerker amulet and my bare fists and I turned out fine. 

The warrior in me says "YESSS" but the rational player in me says "forcing people to dodge or die is met with complaint now, imagine the whine this would be met with. "

[jdawgie.1835]

On 9/2/2023 at 8:55 PM, TheBigPlay.7504 said:

Playing  a broken spec with 900 toughness amulet on a heavy armor class doesn't sound broken to you??? The build is broken + the toughness makes unkillable almost.

Nah. Just Nah. Not even close. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[jdawgie.1835]

20 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

So fix the spec, don't take away the amulet from everybody.

(sigh)...why are people so short-sighted these days?

This forum thinks everything is busted because they lost an engagement - they want to be the only meta around not loose fights because logic and then expect every1 else around to be here to provide them with free dopamine. Its absurd. Warrior is th farthest thing from "busted" this whole thread is just lol. 

[TheBigPlay.7504]

It boggles my mind how people enjoy condi bunker builds, but hey it is what is.  900 toughness on rabid is way too much for  a heavy class. They need to nerf it or remove it.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 hours ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

 they want to be the only meta around not loose fights because logic and then expect every1 else around to be here to provide them with free dopamine.

• People when they ask to nerf things that they can't fight, or have trouble fighting: 😈
• People when Anet gives them what they want: 🤩😜
• People either when their class becomes the thing people can't fight or have trouble fighting: 😲
• People 2 seconds after the patch that nerfs their class, right back on the same nerftrain because this time itll work: 😈

And these are the players we expect to dodge telegraphs/have object permanence? we're doomed. 

 

That being said I'm not a fan of warrior play being (camp camp camp camp camp) SKULLGRINDER (camp camp camp camp) or (camp camp camp  camp) DRAGON SLASH (camp camp camp camp), so take that for what it's worth

Edited September 5, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[jdawgie.1835]

54 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

• People when they ask to nerf things that they can't fight, or have trouble fighting: 😈
• People when Anet gives them what they want: 🤩😜
• People either when their class becomes the thing people can't fight or have trouble fighting: 😲
• People 2 seconds after the patch that nerfs their class, right back on the same nerftrain because this time itll work: 😈

And these are the players we expect to dodge telegraphs/have object permanence? we're doomed. 

Right on azure - good post. Much agreed. Well placed emojis too lmfaaoo.

Edited September 5, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[Bazsi.2734]

I agree. Remove more amulets. PvP got so much better with most of the amulets removed, why did we stop? KEEP REMOVING AMULETS!

[Deadmoose.6594]

On 9/2/2023 at 8:00 PM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

.................................. ahem..................................

Please stroke your neckbeard and tip your fedora when you start a post like this, thank you