[Srge][Video] Smallscale very heavily outnumbered

[Cevni.2049]

 

Been doing quite a bit of gaming lately on DPS FB, off-hand sword feels great, made a videos with some fights mostly from last week or so. All of them create orange swords (so 25+ participants) and we are 5-7 in them. Logs are also posted for 4/5 of them wish arcdps would start working properly again.

[Chaba.5410]

Looks like fun.  Can't wait to read all the "nerf boonball" comments.

[coro.3176]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Looks like fun.  Can't wait to read all the "nerf boonball" comments.

I'll bite. The video is really cool, and it's nice to see a small group punching way above its weight, but it looks like they're able to face tank way too much for their size because they have every boon all the time and support+cleanse is rolling constantly. If you watch the health bars and boon bars, they're rarely under much pressure. For a group of their size to beat the groups they're taking on, I'd like to see them have to work some tactics other than "kite around a corner and then pull-bomb while pressing all the support buttons"

[XenesisII.1540]

I didn't watch the fights, I was watching the yellow/red equalizer bar on the top left in tuned with the music beats.

[Chaba.5410]

46 minutes ago, coro.3176 said:

I'll bite. The video is really cool, and it's nice to see a small group punching way above its weight, but it looks like they're able to face tank way too much for their size because they have every boon all the time and support+cleanse is rolling constantly. If you watch the health bars and boon bars, they're rarely under much pressure. For a group of their size to beat the groups they're taking on, I'd like to see them have to work some tactics other than "kite around a corner and then pull-bomb while pressing all the support buttons"

They're probably not taking a lot of damage in the first place since they are mostly fighting what seem to be rather unorganized pug groups; home borderland defenders with a tag.  Lots of players really spread out, not pushing when the tag pushes, just dropping damage willy-nilly and not an organized spike, etc.

[manu.7539]

4 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Looks like fun.  Can't wait to read all the "nerf boonball" comments.

Not going to make you wait any longer, yeah nerf boonball!

[ArchonWing.9480]

Using wall of reflect to pad your damage numbers, tsk, tsk. Though in all seriousness, don't you find all those arcdps windows distracting? The logging feature may be much more helpful.

But you're running a damage variant, so I respect that. Glad you guys are having fun.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

41 minutes ago, manu.7539 said:

Not going to make you wait any longer, yeah nerf boonball!

Yay! xD

Honestly, the balance problem has more to do with the higher uptimes, the ease in reapplication of them, than from being a boon ball. Boonballs existed at launch too. It was just a higher skill floor on getting them and maintaining them than now.

[Twilightzone.7452]

80% was farming FC pugs, you can do that with two people, 5-7 seem to be overkill

[ArchonWing.9480]

38 minutes ago, Twilightzone.7452 said:

80% was farming FC pugs

You say it like that  a bad thing. How else are you going to get that gen 2?

Edited September 20, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Invictorum.7643]

I mean, having fought some members of Srge individually, y'all are good at what you do, but at the same time running 3 support builds in a 5 man group is kinda silly. Fought your 5/6 man groups on GoM a couple times this week too, and we had to pull at least double your number usually from the roamers to get through three or four support/healer builds lol.

This is just another prime example of Anet neglecting to adjust the power of boons compared to the original design, despite giving extreme application to most builds.

[XenesisII.1540]

Waiting for the [Srge] vs [rL] show down video.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Waiting for the [Srge] vs [rL] show down video.

 

Note: The past details were before the more recent anti-boon nerfs.

Being linked with Kain, I like [Srge] in a way that missing marble peeps like others of the sort and havoc on havoc. I liked the music and video and in the same way with [rL] it shows that a havoc can boon ball. Issue remains so can a zerg and then what do you do? That's the bigger issue here.

To Chabba's points, so when not linked with Kain [Srge] looked to take a camp I claimed since while roaming as I was trying to rank our camps, towers and keeps back up. Did scout reports and they killed many a pug, being stubborn and a camp I claimed I respawned and went back and back again while making callouts for more roamer boon stripes and conversions. Took a bit of time to get enough CC, stripes and conversion roamers before repelling. Then spent the next number of hours doing the same thing. Finally started trying to back path their route so that could intercept and scout report their inc to the same camp for better success in keeping the objective. As more reports were made responses were faster and SBI has a lot of pugs. As a roamer/havoc I again give a hats off to their work at trying to pull more players off topic and could see their value add to the fight.

So from a roamer/havoc, hats off from me since you made me work for it. But in our current state, it also shows that if a full squad did the same, could they be stopped? That's where more the boon ball question comes in. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

You say it like that  a bad thing. How else are you going to get that gen 2?

lol, see that's what assumptions do. See I figured Sit had also visited a Christmas tree farm that had a Leather store before. Why else the leather node fixation. Now I am left confused. Will have to reconsider this one it seems.

[TheGrimm.5624]

16 hours ago, Cevni.2049 said:

 

Been doing quite a bit of gaming lately on DPS FB, off-hand sword feels great, made a videos with some fights mostly from last week or so. All of them create orange swords (so 25+ participants) and we are 5-7 in them. Logs are also posted for 4/5 of them wish arcdps would start working properly again.

Appreciate the video and music. Good to be hunting with you this link, and as havoc to another, as always, good hunting! May your bags be full!

[Cevni.2049]

Thanks for the comments everyone, I'll try to answer some of them at least

11 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Using wall of reflect to pad your damage numbers, tsk, tsk. Though in all seriousness, don't you find all those arcdps windows distracting? The logging feature may be much more helpful.

But you're running a damage variant, so I respect that. Glad you guys are having fun.

 

We do actually use wall of reflect as an integral part of our strategy, it's good ranged pressure, and it has obvious defensive benefits

We do log, I actually link the logs to all the fights (except for the last one, where arcdps was broken)

I got a 3440x1440 screen so I got plenty of space and I only have the most important windows, Tag Distance, Damage in, Damage out, Strips, Cleanses, Healing out, Buffs and self skills, and a food tracker

I actually make some decisions based on the meters in combat, such as assessing how effective reflects are versus a certain group, or how much pressure we're under, or what to focus based on self skills incoming damage

I'd say reflects are a bit interesting in that in an actual zerg, I would 100% call them padding a lot of the time, but for a group like ours there's not really such a thing, because our primary gameplan is to out-pressure.

9 hours ago, Invictorum.7643 said:

I mean, having fought some members of Srge individually, y'all are good at what you do, but at the same time running 3 support builds in a 5 man group is kinda silly. Fought your 5/6 man groups on GoM a couple times this week too, and we had to pull at least double your number usually from the roamers to get through three or four support/healer builds lol.

This is just another prime example of Anet neglecting to adjust the power of boons compared to the original design, despite giving extreme application to most builds.

Hey we actually run 4 supports in a 5 man a lot of the time nowadays, even a couple of the fights in the video. We will just run whatever we think has the best chance of giving us fights like this, that is to say heavily outnumbered fights which aren't just stealthbombs or ismilar things. That atm the best way to do this seems to be 4 supports 1 dmg dealer, probably says a lot about the state of dmg, many of the groups we fight do have multiple supports

I wouldn't mind seeing some boons lose a couple % of power, in particular might should be changed to a % dmg increase, instead of the flat stats it is now, would also be a reasonable hit on celestial.

19 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

I'll bite. The video is really cool, and it's nice to see a small group punching way above its weight, but it looks like they're able to face tank way too much for their size because they have every boon all the time and support+cleanse is rolling constantly. If you watch the health bars and boon bars, they're rarely under much pressure. For a group of their size to beat the groups they're taking on, I'd like to see them have to work some tactics other than "kite around a corner and then pull-bomb while pressing all the support buttons"

The fight at around 5 minutes doesn't involve much kiting, and very little cornering.

As for other strategies, there isn't really a ton available in the game, we have a bit of a unique strategy in that we're much less burst focused than your average group, and do go for sustained dmg to a degree.

Outside of what we're doing there is basically stealthbombing, which I personally find less fun to do, or big bombs with hard resets, which I personally find less fun.

Overall any strategy for a group our size to take on a larger one, will have to be one that leverages our advantages, which is that we're much more organized, that we have far more group synergy, and that we overall are good at smashing our rotations, as well as builds that are focused on long term pressure/sustain, that is to say you'll notice we don't run any skills with cooldowns longer than like 40sec and no ressing utilities.

I do think that CCs and pull bombs are too strong for the record, if the game was a bit different, I wouldn't mind being able to only run 1 person dedicated to stab instead of 2 (and with everyone else doing some amounts)

5 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 But in our current state, it also shows that if a full squad did the same, could they be stopped? That's where more the boon ball question comes in. 

I mean if a full squad had this level of cohesion, organization and preparation, as 50 people, I'd argue they probably should be unstoppable.

Overall the primary problem with full squads imo is mostly how the AoE cap works, that you as 50 people end up with 90% passive avoidance, which is quite overpowered some might say

5 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Appreciate the video and music. Good to be hunting with you this link, and as havoc to another, as always, good hunting! May your bags be full!

Thank you!

15 hours ago, Twilightzone.7452 said:

80% was farming FC pugs, you can do that with two people, 5-7 seem to be overkill

Ye, but it's about amount the number of them you can farm at once

[Mabi black.1824]

17 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Waiting for the [Srge] vs [rL] show down video.

 

I don't know these guilds. but definitely this video is considerably more impressive than that of sL . And luckily that the author of the video stated to play damage fb , I dare not imagine what he would do if he plays healing fb , peche never seen your solute drop over its 80%. Really good.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

I loved the perma boon stacks. Didn't see the dodge bar move much.  Wow must be amazing to be carried by boons. Nothing hard about literally running over red circles infinitely because you had perma boon stacks. 

It is not your fault though, Anet has it carry mode, so.. gg I guess. 

Still, I'll be looking forward to finding that guild tag someday, I'd like to see how it all ends up.