More “paths” to legendary gear...

[TexZero.7910]

@"Swagger.1459" said:Yes, having “true” legendary armor behind raids met the target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.

And here we have the meat and buns.....From the thread creator himself.It's not about more paths, it's about easier paths that arent "a 2nd job" in their eyes.

The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

[Swagger.1459]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Yes, having “true” legendary armor behind raids met the target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.

And here we have the meat and buns.....From the thread creator himself.It's not about more paths, it's about easier paths that arent "a 2nd job" in their eyes.

The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

Sorry, but that was a general statement, and you have shared those feelings as well. Nothing to do with easy, it’s about more options. This was billed as a casual game, so offering more paths to end game gear is staying true to the original design intent of the game.

Also, from a "fun" perspective, raids provided more to do, but other content was made obsolete for the sole intention of moving people into other more rewarding modes/area's. Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO's and that's killing a lot of gameplay.

[Ohoni.6057]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:What would that data look like, out of curiosity?I gave you a developer quote saying that they are going to release Raids more frequently, if the content was hurting the game, they wouldn't do that.

That's not necessarily true. Developers don't always know what is hurting their game, or why.

Now it's your turn to give something that proves that, despite the developer post, the Raids are hurting the game.

And I'm asking you what that data would look like? I can't look for it if I have no idea what you want me to find.

@PopeUrban.2578 said:The example I gave here, warframe, is the other way around. Their premium currency, platinum, is used to purchase a very limited subset of items than can only be sourced from the MTX store. Most of the utility of that currency is that it can be used in player to player trades to buy thing that can not in any way be obtained from the mtx store, and to pay a premium price for relatively common and easy to obtain things instantly.

But again, players can already do that in GW2 by converting gems to gold and, say, buying Legendary weapons, or other rare skins, or burning their way to maxed crafting to make Ascended armor. Yeah, the process has a few more steps to it, but it's still there.

@TexZero.7910 said:I'd like you to show me a "fair game"....None of them are intrinsically fair.

Most games are fair. That doesn't mean that they are everything to everbody, but it does mean that they set rules and stick by them.

Sure sounds like you're asking for a handout to me. "I want from my preferred mode."

Well obviously I'm asking, as a customer, that the developers give me more options, if you want to classify that as "a handout" then so be it, but the same would apply to any request made on the forums. What I'm NOT doing is asking to be handed the Legendary armor for no effort, I'm expecting to have to put in effort to earn it, I would only like the option for that effort to be something I would enjoy doing as much as raiders enjoy raiding.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:All that I have seen is people complaining but they never provide a solution to how it could be implemented in-game so that it requires the same amount of dedication, skills, and effort as in raids.

It likely wouldn't require the same amount of skill, since neither of the other two methods of acquiring Legendary armor do either (and buying runs involves zero skill), but it would balance that lower skill-cap with increased effort. I don't want to get tied down to a specific proposal, because there are plenty of ways that it could work, but I favor a token system, in which completing different open world activities would drop varying amounts of tokens, and components of the Envoy armor collection could be purchased from vendors in exchange for these tokens. It would take dozens of hours of gameplay and likely several months or more to acquire all of them via this method. Similar methods to this already exist in game for numerous rewards.

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:I realize that you believe that you are the only player who matters.

That's not the case. I just believe that my interests in this matter align with the interests of more players than those gatekeeping the Legendary armor. If someone could prove to me that I'm wrong about that, I'd withdraw my argument. I want what I believe is for the greater good of the game. As I've said, even if they handed me a full collection of Legendary armor, completely satisfying my selfish interests here, I would still advocate for a broader solution that applies to all players.

So, this will likely be just an intellectual exercise, but here goes. How does ANet arrange to allow every player to have access to any reward they desire via any game-play they prefer without making all rewards available via every means imaginable?

I don't understand the question. It's like asking "how do you infuse something with water without getting it wet." The best answer that I could offer is that they can't, and that's fine, because "making all rewards available via every means imaginable" is a good goal to have. I mean obviously there are practical limitations, they can't support every theoretical activity people might get up to, but the game already rewards plenty of activities with some nominal amount of reward, so why not expand the variety of rewards available to those activities?

@TexZero.7910 said:The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

But what if those modes that they have chosen to include are not the modes a person wants to play? Again, the number of players that prefer raids, WvW, and PvP combined is, but all data available, lower than the number of people who enjoy open world PvE, and yet open world PvE is still left out of the Legendary chase.

[TexZero.7910]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yes, having “true” legendary armor behind raids met the target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.

And here we have the meat and buns.....From the thread creator himself.It's not about more paths, it's about easier paths that arent "a 2nd job" in their eyes.

The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

Sorry, but that was a general statement, and you have shared those feelings as well. Nothing to do with easy, it’s about more options. This was billed as a casual game, so offering more paths to end game gear is staying true to the original design intent of the game.

Also, from a "fun" perspective, raids provided more to do, but other content was made obsolete for the sole intention of moving people into other more rewarding modes/area's. Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO's and that's killing a lot of gameplay.

I can't take this argument seriously at all.

The most rewarding content in the game isn't even raids, and its far from the "Grindy Asian MMO's".

The game is still casual, and you can still get end-game gear.... Fail to see the issue. Go PvP or WvW if PvE isnt your teacup.

@Ohoni.6057 said:But what if those modes that they have chosen to include are not the modes a person wants to play? Again, the number of players that prefer raids, WvW, and PvP combined is, but all data available, lower than the number of people who enjoy open world PvE, and yet open world PvE is still left out of the Legendary chase.

If you don't PvE, WvW or PvP then why are you even playing the game and chasing Legendary anything ?

[Swagger.1459]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yes, having “true” legendary armor behind raids met the target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.

And here we have the meat and buns.....From the thread creator himself.It's not about more paths, it's about easier paths that arent "a 2nd job" in their eyes.

The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

Sorry, but that was a general statement, and you have shared those feelings as well. Nothing to do with easy, it’s about more options. This was billed as a casual game, so offering more paths to end game gear is staying true to the original design intent of the game.

Also, from a "fun" perspective, raids provided more to do, but other content was made obsolete for the sole intention of moving people into other more rewarding modes/area's. Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO's and that's killing a lot of gameplay.

I can't take this argument seriously at all.

The most rewarding content in the game isn't even raids, and its far from the "Grindy Asian MMO's".

The game is still casual, and you can still get end-game gear.... Fail to see the issue. Go PvP or WvW if PvE isnt your teacup.

@Ohoni.6057 said:But what if those modes that they have chosen to include are not the modes a person wants to play? Again, the number of players that prefer raids, WvW, and PvP

combined

is, but all data available, lower than the number of people who enjoy open world PvE, and yet open world PvE is still left out of the Legendary chase.

If you don't PvE, WvW or PvP then why are you even playing the game and chasing Legendary anything ?

And you have a pro-raid bias, so it’s clear you can’t look at the larger picture in this area... as you have with other areas when it suits your argument.

The clear difference between us is that I look out for the majority more often than not. I search for ways to lift up the game as a whole for more players, not less. Unfortunately, you have often worn blinders, particularly on the topic of raids.

And again... “It's that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority”

[maddoctor.2738]

@Ohoni.6057 said:That's not necessarily true. Developers don't always know what is hurting their game, or why.

Right and a random forum poster does. If you really think you know what is hurting the game then you obviously have evidence to prove it.

And I'm asking you what that data would look like? I can't look for it if I have no idea what you want me to find.

You say the developers don't know what is hurting the game so you must know something they don't. Where is your data?

[Ohoni.6057]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:But what if those modes that they have chosen to include are not the modes a person wants to play? Again, the number of players that prefer raids, WvW, and PvP

combined

is, but all data available, lower than the number of people who enjoy open world PvE, and yet open world PvE is still left out of the Legendary chase.

If you don't PvE, WvW or PvP then why are you even playing the game and chasing Legendary anything ?

What thread have you been reading for you to get the impression that I don't PvE? What I don't do is raid, and so far, raiding is a required component of getting envoy armor. That is my issue here.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Right and a random forum poster does. If you really think you know what is hurting the game then you obviously have evidence to prove it.

"And I'm asking you what that data would look like? I can't look for it if I have no idea what you want me to find."

You say the developers don't know what is hurting the game so you must know something they don't. Where is your data?

"And I'm asking you what that data would look like? I can't look for it if I have no idea what you want me to find."

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Ohoni.6057" said:"And I'm asking you what that data would look like? I can't look for it if I have no idea what you want me to find."

In other words, the developers have the data, think everything is fine.While random forum poster A says that everything is not fine, but without having any data.

I'm out of here. have fun

[Ohoni.6057]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Ohoni.6057" said:"And I'm asking you what that data would look like? I can't look for it if I have no idea what you want me to find."

In other words, the developers have the data, think everything is fine.

I see no reason to believe that the developers do have "the data" in this case. They have some data, but not necessarily the right data to form a complete picture. They know from heat maps which activities people are doing, but that alone wouldn't tell them what players are enjoying. They know how many players they've gained and lost over the years, but not what would cause them to arrive or leave. Only scientific polling would give that sort of data, and so far as I can tell, ANet haven't been doing that since launch.

Even if the developers do have "the data," you don't, and you're the one making the case here, not them, so your claims have no more basis than my own.

I'm still not sure what the sort of data you're looking for would look like.

[TexZero.7910]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yes, having “true” legendary armor behind raids met the target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.

And here we have the meat and buns.....From the thread creator himself.It's not about more paths, it's about easier paths that arent "a 2nd job" in their eyes.

The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

Sorry, but that was a general statement, and you have shared those feelings as well. Nothing to do with easy, it’s about more options. This was billed as a casual game, so offering more paths to end game gear is staying true to the original design intent of the game.

Also, from a "fun" perspective, raids provided more to do, but other content was made obsolete for the sole intention of moving people into other more rewarding modes/area's. Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO's and that's killing a lot of gameplay.

I can't take this argument seriously at all.

The most rewarding content in the game isn't even raids, and its far from the "Grindy Asian MMO's".

The game is still casual, and you can still get end-game gear.... Fail to see the issue. Go PvP or WvW if PvE isnt your teacup.

@Ohoni.6057 said:But what if those modes that they have chosen to include are not the modes a person wants to play? Again, the number of players that prefer raids, WvW, and PvP

combined

is, but all data available, lower than the number of people who enjoy open world PvE, and yet open world PvE is still left out of the Legendary chase.

If you don't PvE, WvW or PvP then why are you even playing the game and chasing Legendary anything ?

And you have a pro-raid bias, so it’s clear you can’t look at the larger picture in this area... as you have with other areas when it suits your argument.

The clear difference between us is that I look out for the majority more often than not. I search for ways to lift up the game as a whole for more players, not less. Unfortunately, you have often worn blinders, particularly on the topic of raids.

And again... “It's that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority”

We're talking about biases now ?Okay, it's nice to see you using the logical fallacy of Appeal to Popularity (Argumentum ad populum). That certainly made your points valid and credible.It's also nice to see that you'd rather not attack the topic but rather the person (Ad Hominem Circumstantial)

With that it's clear there's nothing more to discuss as you pointed out so eloquently earlier.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.It's not about access, its about ease.

[Tails.9372]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:All that I have seen is people complaining but they never provide a solution to how it could be implemented in-gameOh really? And what is this?:@"Tails.9372" said:do something similar to what WvW does: add a reward track for participating in events and give the players a general currency for completing big meta events & killing epic / legendary creaturesdoesn't look like "they never provide a solution to how it could be implemented in-game" to me.

[Swagger.1459]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yes, having “true” legendary armor behind raids met the target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.

And here we have the meat and buns.....From the thread creator himself.It's not about more paths, it's about easier paths that arent "a 2nd job" in their eyes.

The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

Sorry, but that was a general statement, and you have shared those feelings as well. Nothing to do with easy, it’s about more options. This was billed as a casual game, so offering more paths to end game gear is staying true to the original design intent of the game.

Also, from a "fun" perspective, raids provided more to do, but other content was made obsolete for the sole intention of moving people into other more rewarding modes/area's. Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO's and that's killing a lot of gameplay.

I can't take this argument seriously at all.

The most rewarding content in the game isn't even raids, and its far from the "Grindy Asian MMO's".

The game is still casual, and you can still get end-game gear.... Fail to see the issue. Go PvP or WvW if PvE isnt your teacup.

@"Ohoni.6057" said:But what if those modes that they have chosen to include are not the modes a person wants to play? Again, the number of players that prefer raids, WvW, and PvP

combined

is, but all data available, lower than the number of people who enjoy open world PvE, and yet open world PvE is still left out of the Legendary chase.

If you don't PvE, WvW or PvP then why are you even playing the game and chasing Legendary anything ?

And you have a pro-raid bias, so it’s clear you can’t look at the larger picture in this area... as you have with other areas when it suits your argument.

The clear difference between us is that I look out for the majority more often than not. I search for ways to lift up the game as a whole for more players, not less. Unfortunately, you have often worn blinders, particularly on the topic of raids.

And again... “It's that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority”

We're talking about biases now ?Okay, it's nice to see you using the logical fallacy of Appeal to Popularity (Argumentum ad populum). That certainly made your points valid and credible.It's also nice to see that you'd rather not attack the topic but rather the person (Ad Hominem Circumstantial)

With that it's clear there's nothing more to discuss as you pointed out so eloquently earlier.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.It's not about access, its about ease.

Interesting that you accuse someone of "not attack the topic but rather the person" after making this statement.... "I can't take this argument seriously at all.". Seems very much like a double standard from you....

You can attempt to spin doctor comments and make assumption, but realize that my comments are very close to your feelings in other areas of the game. We actually share a lot of similar thoughts and feeling, but I'm much more objective when it comes to this topic.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Ohoni.6057" said:I see no reason to believe that the developers do have "the data" in this case. They have some data, but not necessarily the right data to form a complete picture. They know from heat maps which activities people are doing, but that alone wouldn't tell them what players are enjoying. They know how many players they've gained and lost over the years, but not what would cause them to arrive or leave. Only scientific polling would give that sort of data, and so far as I can tell, ANet haven't been doing that since launch.

If they have data similar to gw2efficiency but on a global scale with timestamps, which we could get too btw, they'll have all the data they need.If players don't enjoy something but they continue playing it then there is nothing for the developers to do in that case :)

[TexZero.7910]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yes, having “true” legendary armor behind raids met the target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.

And here we have the meat and buns.....From the thread creator himself.It's not about more paths, it's about easier paths that arent "a 2nd job" in their eyes.

The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

Sorry, but that was a general statement, and you have shared those feelings as well. Nothing to do with easy, it’s about more options. This was billed as a casual game, so offering more paths to end game gear is staying true to the original design intent of the game.

Also, from a "fun" perspective, raids provided more to do, but other content was made obsolete for the sole intention of moving people into other more rewarding modes/area's. Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO's and that's killing a lot of gameplay.

I can't take this argument seriously at all.

The most rewarding content in the game isn't even raids, and its far from the "Grindy Asian MMO's".

The game is still casual, and you can still get end-game gear.... Fail to see the issue. Go PvP or WvW if PvE isnt your teacup.

@"Ohoni.6057" said:But what if those modes that they have chosen to include are not the modes a person wants to play? Again, the number of players that prefer raids, WvW, and PvP

combined

is, but all data available, lower than the number of people who enjoy open world PvE, and yet open world PvE is still left out of the Legendary chase.

If you don't PvE, WvW or PvP then why are you even playing the game and chasing Legendary anything ?

And you have a pro-raid bias, so it’s clear you can’t look at the larger picture in this area... as you have with other areas when it suits your argument.

The clear difference between us is that I look out for the majority more often than not. I search for ways to lift up the game as a whole for more players, not less. Unfortunately, you have often worn blinders, particularly on the topic of raids.

And again... “It's that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority”

We're talking about biases now ?Okay, it's nice to see you using the logical fallacy of Appeal to Popularity (Argumentum ad populum). That certainly made your points valid and credible.It's also nice to see that you'd rather not attack the topic but rather the person (Ad Hominem Circumstantial)

With that it's clear there's nothing more to discuss as you pointed out so eloquently earlier.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.It's not about access, its about ease.

Interesting that you accuse someone of "not attack the topic but rather the person" after making this statement.... "I can't take this argument seriously at all.". Seems very much like a double standard from you....

You can attempt to spin doctor comments and make assumption, but realize that my comments are very close to your feelings in other areas of the game. We actually share a lot of similar thoughts and feeling, but I'm much more objective when it comes to this topic.

You cannot claim objectivity when you throw out gems like

Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO'sThis is about as far from an objective statement as an unbiased observer can make.

No data, no real analysis. Only feelings and hyperbolic rhetoric.

[Swagger.1459]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Yes, having “true” legendary armor behind raids met the target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.

And here we have the meat and buns.....From the thread creator himself.It's not about more paths, it's about easier paths that arent "a 2nd job" in their eyes.

The game has gone out of its way to provide you with access to the Armor in other modes of play that are on par with the effort required from Raids. You should play those.

Sorry, but that was a general statement, and you have shared those feelings as well. Nothing to do with easy, it’s about more options. This was billed as a casual game, so offering more paths to end game gear is staying true to the original design intent of the game.

Also, from a "fun" perspective, raids provided more to do, but other content was made obsolete for the sole intention of moving people into other more rewarding modes/area's. Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO's and that's killing a lot of gameplay.

I can't take this argument seriously at all.

The most rewarding content in the game isn't even raids, and its far from the "Grindy Asian MMO's".

The game is still casual, and you can still get end-game gear.... Fail to see the issue. Go PvP or WvW if PvE isnt your teacup.

@"Ohoni.6057" said:But what if those modes that they have chosen to include are not the modes a person wants to play? Again, the number of players that prefer raids, WvW, and PvP

combined

is, but all data available, lower than the number of people who enjoy open world PvE, and yet open world PvE is still left out of the Legendary chase.

If you don't PvE, WvW or PvP then why are you even playing the game and chasing Legendary anything ?

And you have a pro-raid bias, so it’s clear you can’t look at the larger picture in this area... as you have with other areas when it suits your argument.

The clear difference between us is that I look out for the majority more often than not. I search for ways to lift up the game as a whole for more players, not less. Unfortunately, you have often worn blinders, particularly on the topic of raids.

And again... “It's that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority”

We're talking about biases now ?Okay, it's nice to see you using the logical fallacy of Appeal to Popularity (Argumentum ad populum). That certainly made your points valid and credible.It's also nice to see that you'd rather not attack the topic but rather the person (Ad Hominem Circumstantial)

With that it's clear there's nothing more to discuss as you pointed out so eloquently earlier.

Frankly, we’ve seen how heavy hand the approach to end game legendary gear is, and it’s not fun. At the end of the day, this is a game not a 2nd job to invest in.It's not about access, its about ease.

Interesting that you accuse someone of "not attack the topic but rather the person" after making this statement.... "I can't take this argument seriously at all.". Seems very much like a double standard from you....

You can attempt to spin doctor comments and make assumption, but realize that my comments are very close to your feelings in other areas of the game. We actually share a lot of similar thoughts and feeling, but I'm much more objective when it comes to this topic.

You cannot claim objectivity when you throw out gems like

Unfortunately the rewards team had been leading this game in the direction of Grindy Asian MMO'sThis is about as far from an objective statement as an unbiased observer can make.

No data, no real analysis. Only feelings and hyperbolic rhetoric.

"It's that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority." -TexZero 2016

[Swagger.1459]

I have a list of memorable quotes that I planned on using for signatures. Was a very good quote from you, and one that I strongly agree with. It really captures the spirit of anets design philosophy when they launched the game...

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien

So keeping things in “context”, let us not conflate more paths to achieve gear with (what you assume to be) asking for easy paths... That was already established, and made clear to you, pages ago by me. This is about more options to earn gear, so players can spend their logged-in time playing how they find more enjoyable while still being able to work towards reward goals. It’s about valuing a customers time more, and focusing more on letting players “just have fun”...

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Tails.9372 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:All that I have seen is people complaining but they never provide a solution to how it could be implemented in-gameOh really? And what is this?:@Tails.9372 said:do something similar to what WvW does: add a reward track for participating in events and give the players a general currency for completing big meta events & killing epic / legendary creaturesdoesn't look like "they never provide a solution to how it could be implemented in-game" to me.

And yet, where are all of the people that want legendary armor to support it? If casuals truly want legendary armor through open world, don’t you think that they would get behind this? Perhaps it’s because many could care less.

[Tails.9372]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:And yet, where are all of the people that want legendary armor to support it?The OP wouldn't have gotten over 60 upvotes if no one would have cared about "getting more ways to obtain legendary gear" so what are you talking about?

[TexZero.7910]

@Tails.9372 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:And yet, where are all of the people that want legendary armor to support it?The OP wouldn't have gotten over 60 upvotes if no one would have cared about "getting more ways to obtain legendary gear" so what are you talking about?

and since we can't downvote the upvotes are useless.

[Ohoni.6057]

@maddoctor.2738 said:If they have data similar to gw2efficiency but on a global scale with timestamps, which we could get too btw, they'll have all the data they need.

That's faulty logic. Again, it tells what people are doing, but not why they are doing it. Is a player farming in a given area because it's fun? Because it's efficient? Would he appreciate a nerf there so he could farm elsewhere without feeling like he's missing out, or would he hate a nerf because he genuinely enjoys that area and this would make it less rewarding? I PvPed enough to get The Ascension, what would you take from that data? Would you take that I actually enjoy PvP, given that I spent many hours over that time period playing PvP, or would you understand that I hated very minute of it and still resent the game for not giving me alternatives? I'll give you two guesses.

Now it's possible that their data could be parsed to theorize on causality, but that would take some rather sophisticated algorithms, and I'm not sure they have anything like that. Data is much better for showing what people are doing than it is for showing why they are doing it. Basing decisions only on what people are doing without understanding why will only get you so far.

[Swagger.1459]

And for anyone who thinks I started this thread because I'm feeling "entitled and want easy gear"... I have 13 legendary weapons (some bought and some earned). Aurora. Full set of medium legendary gear... I can buy any gen 1 legendary I want in minutes. I can earn all non-purchasable legendary gear if I really want, and just buy gems for gold to purchase all the required mats...

This thread is about opening up the legendary gear reward systems so players can log in and focus more on having fun, while still being able to earn rewards at their own pace. And this suggestion is not outside of the original design philosophy for the game... "It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien

[Tails.9372]

@"TexZero.7910" said:and since we can't downvote the upvotes are useless.Context seems to be a foreign word to you now doesn't it? The question was "where are all of the people that want to support it?", how many hypothetical downvotes there are is comepletly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

It can't be that manny otherwise we would have seen at lest one person direcly arguing agganst the core idea of this thread. Also, I do agree with Ayrilana that many people probably don't care either way but thats beside the point.

[Seera.5916]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tails.9372 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:And yet, where are all of the people that want legendary armor to support it?The OP wouldn't have gotten over 60 upvotes if no one would have cared about "getting more ways to obtain legendary gear" so what are you talking about?

and since we can't downvote the upvotes are useless.

I wouldn't say they are useless. Just not enough to prove anything unless the number gets really high and I wouldn't say that 60 up votes on an official forum is high enough to say that the majority of players agree. It's also not enough to prove that a majority don't agree either since there is no down vote.

It is showing that some people do want more paths to legendary gear in general. And not everyone who agrees would up vote either. I don't mind other paths being added should a method that's comparable be devised for those other paths. I just don't want the skins to not be exclusive. And I haven't up voted even though I agree with the wording of the original post.

[TexZero.7910]

@Tails.9372 said:

@"TexZero.7910" said:and since we can't downvote the upvotes are useless.Context seems to be a foreign word to you now doesn't it? The question was "where are all of the people that want to support it?", how many hypothetical downvotes there are is comepletly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

It can't be that manny otherwise we would have seen at lest one person direcly arguing agganst the core idea of this thread. Also, I do agree with Ayrilana that many people probably don't care either way but thats beside the point.

Again, you cannot reasonable claim this post is a viewpoint of a majority based on a system where only praise can be showcased.It could just as easily be the case that a post has 60 upvotes but would have had 120 downvotes and if that were the case we'd know where the actually support was.

[Tails.9372]

@TexZero.7910 said:Again, you cannot reasonable claim this post is a viewpoint of a majority based on a system where only praise can be showcased.I never did so what's your point?