Necro need some kit changes for sPvP

[Iridi.8473]

Necro's kit in PvP is too underwhelming in the current state of PvP, especially in G3+. Being the only class without an actual invuln or block and with the current glass/burst builds, necro just doesnt bring enough to the table. Scourge is a semi-decent bunker/support build but again at higher levels of PvP, it doesnt offer enough to the team. Likewise, reaper gets run through as most classes can instantly burst through our shroud which means we just die. Harbinger is decent, but still suffers to a degree from these same problems. Essentially with the current state of PvP being an extremely low TTK meta, a class like necro without invulns or blocks becomes a crutch to the team and would like to see some changes to make necro more viable in G3+ for pvp.

[Eddie.9143]

I wouldn't mind aegis and aoe blind on entering and exiting shroud as a start.

I won't lie I haven't lost to necro in a while 

[Arheundel.6451]

4 hours ago, Iridi.8473 said:

Necro's kit in PvP is too underwhelming in the current state of PvP, especially in G3+. Being the only class without an actual invuln or block and with the current glass/burst builds, necro just doesnt bring enough to the table. Scourge is a semi-decent bunker/support build but again at higher levels of PvP, it doesnt offer enough to the team. Likewise, reaper gets run through as most classes can instantly burst through our shroud which means we just die. Harbinger is decent, but still suffers to a degree from these same problems. Essentially with the current state of PvP being an extremely low TTK meta, a class like necro without invulns or blocks becomes a crutch to the team and would like to see some changes to make necro more viable in G3+ for pvp.

What about the spammable unblockable marks, large pbaoe and conditions overload plus shroud soaking dmg? There is a valid reason for lack of blocks...the professions with blocks don't have nearly as much hp and more

[Gamble.4580]

Something to replace the wurm would be nice

[GewRoo.4172]

Nectard and its specs were meta defining for how many years? Even through periods with the highest dmg up to date during late PoF? Scourge shined in team fights against double Herald, FB, and another Scourge but now its kit is underwhelming? Isn't Reaper a top tier build in Ranked atm? Blood Scourge isn't offering much to the team? BTW I'm pretty sure a Nectard with support is more valuable than two random dmg dealers rn. 

Not that you're wrong regarding Necs lack of Blocks and Invulns - but you literally can have a second health bar and a defensive trait line that stacks toughness. If you think Nec lacks dmg when picking them - we can't have everything, right? 

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, GewRoo.4172 said:

a defensive trait line that stacks toughness.

Full toughness stack barely bring necromancer's armor class to heavy armor's level without any investment in PvP, thought. Is it really impressive to you? If so, elementalist's amount of toughness stacking might be mind blowing for you (especially on catalyst).

I mean, Necro without toughness amulet peak at 2188 armor, in the same conditions, core ele offer more than 2300 armor (while catalyst peak beyond 2500 armor). Warrior (dolyak signet: 2408)/guardian (stawart defender: 2468)/revenant merely wielding a shield reach 2228, Ranger just taking signet of stone is at 2209 (Soulbeast? this one can reach 2484).

Well... I'll give it to you, thief, mesmer and engineer are laging behind necromancer in potential armor value.

Honestly, pointing out "toughness stacking" on necromancer is more of a joke than anything when you realize than at best the profession reach middle of the pack in this area.

I won't say that the necromancer need more of anything in it's kit, he doesn't. But, please, try to not use toughness as an argument for necromancer's survivability, the necromancer's amount of toughness stacking in PvP just isn't significant enough to be relevant in any way.

[Downstate.4697]

Lower cooldowns on spectral utilities could help. If damage is higher, give them more ways to gain life force .

[Levijeh.9643]

Give us back Foot in the Grave 😏

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

God forbid Necro isn't in the meta for the first time in 10 years.

[Iridi.8473]

12 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

What about the spammable unblockable marks, large pbaoe and conditions overload plus shroud soaking dmg? There is a valid reason for lack of blocks...the professions with blocks don't have nearly as much hp and more

Most if not all classes can easily clear necro conditions so not quite sure what you're getting at. E.g. condi zerker > necro. Willbender blasts through necro shroud. So does SB. So does holo smith, scrapper, renegade, the list goes on. Having blocks/invuln > second life bar. You're right that in "theory" second life bar should be a replacement but it's not. It never will be. Not with the current state of PvP and classes able to blast through it. Along with the fact that necros initially start with no shroud and need to build it up.

And the "spammable" unblockable marks arent really a problem. You can invuln through marks. They dont do insane damage. They arent spammable except for staff 2 which does the least damage. It's more so a Condi cleanse/crowd control than a damage option.

[Iridi.8473]

3 hours ago, Downstate.4697 said:

Lower cooldowns on spectral utilities could help. If damage is higher, give them more ways to gain life force .

i agree with this. Life force generation is a big issue due to how quickly classes can burst through our shroud and without shroud we're pretty dead. I've had to use shroud to absorb bursts but that also means my main damage is now gone along with a big mobility and my main source of stab (reaper shroud 3). 

[Iridi.8473]

10 hours ago, GewRoo.4172 said:

Nectard and its specs were meta defining for how many years? Even through periods with the highest dmg up to date during late PoF? Scourge shined in team fights against double Herald, FB, and another Scourge but now its kit is underwhelming? Isn't Reaper a top tier build in Ranked atm? Blood Scourge isn't offering much to the team? BTW I'm pretty sure a Nectard with support is more valuable than two random dmg dealers rn. 

Not that you're wrong regarding Necs lack of Blocks and Invulns - but you literally can have a second health bar and a defensive trait line that stacks toughness. If you think Nec lacks dmg when picking them - we can't have everything, right? 

Reaper isnt a top build. Not even close. As someone else put it, "what does scourge do?". Under G3, necro might seem pretty viable. Not so much G3+. Not asking for everything. Just the fact that not having an invuln and/or block make necro very weak in the current state of pvp due to the high burst damage specs being played and having a dynamic second life bar doesnt compensate for this, especially when your shroud is built by doing damage and when every class has invuln/blocks going, you can put 2 and 2 together.

[Emapudapus.1307]

I havent played this game for a long time, but gave it a try again during last weekend. As old necro main (core and reaper) i noticed 2-3 main problems, at least for this meta:

1. Removal of many condi corruption effects from traits/spells or transforming condi corruption to only boon removal or reducing the amount of boon removal/corruption/transfering. The necro defensive nature (beside shroud) came from offensive utility conditions and debuffing enemies rather than having an easy access to protection/teleports/blocks/invulnerability. 

2. I am not sure but it seems shroud takes more damage, either damage is high or they removed some internal functionality of shroud damage mitigation. While before it might not be needed, but for this meta shroud needs internal damage reduction, because everyone can clear full shroud in 1 sec (at least if u fight enemies with meta builds or meme damage). Also i didnt notice much problems regarding life force generation.

(*3. Many bad reworks of core skills/spells like dagger 2, warhorn 5, shouts still whithout amunition, many traits... at least this is my personal bias opinion, devs dont seem to understand how necro works, many beneficial trait/spells synergies that exist/existed destroyed and necro depth/theme turning more into generic "me smash".)

Also bring VAMPIRIC RITUALS back !!!! :).

Edited September 26, 2023 by Emapudapus.1307

[Deadmoose.6594]

My observations as a mesmer main who just got into necro and is playing reaper, I'm finding dagger to be way better than actual shroud which is super disappointing. Not sure why but I feel like it does more damage. Reaper as a whole is too predictable, opponent just waits until you reaper and then unloads on you...so much can stop a reaper, moa, the 10 snares DH has, warriors 5 stuns, etc etc etc. Reaper dmg < War dmg. I've been going toe to toe with a lot of wars and can't kill them 1v1, not even close. Sure I can run but its a loss because warrior is flat out better right now. Chill? Doesn't seem to do anything even though I have 8 chills. Seldom see the enemy actually slowed. Same with fear, lasts like two seconds, kind of worthless.

Every attack in shroud needs longer range, because people just run away from it. The worst feeling in the world for a reaper in shroud is getting slowed and watching your enemy laugh as they run joyfully away from you and your useless attacks. It has some good aoe damage in a mix but evaporates in conquest on point if other team has conditions.

Edit: It's a massive magical undead scythe, there's 0 reason why it shouldn't have a 600 range like a friggin dagger.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Deadmoose.6594

[Gamble.4580]

6 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

My observations as a mesmer main who just got into necro and is playing reaper, I'm finding dagger to be way better than actual shroud which is super disappointing. Not sure why but I feel like it does more damage. Reaper as a whole is too predictable, opponent just waits until you reaper and then unloads on you...so much can stop a reaper, moa, the 10 snares DH has, warriors 5 stuns, etc etc etc. Reaper dmg < War dmg. I've been going toe to toe with a lot of wars and can't kill them 1v1, not even close. Sure I can run but its a loss because warrior is flat out better right now. Chill? Doesn't seem to do anything even though I have 8 chills. Seldom see the enemy actually slowed. Same with fear, lasts like two seconds, kind of worthless.

Every attack in shroud needs longer range, because people just run away from it. The worst feeling in the world for a reaper in shroud is getting slowed and watching your enemy laugh as they run joyfully away from you and your useless attacks. It has some good aoe damage in a mix but evaporates in conquest on point if other team has conditions.

Edit: It's a massive magical undead scythe, there's 0 reason why it shouldn't have a 600 range like a friggin dagger.

 

600range? Power reaper would brake the game..

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Necros are always so funny. 

"literally unplayable" I hear them say then look at the play rates going to the moon. 

"never been viable" they screech from the roof tops while doing top tier dps. 

"hardest to play class" when necro is the easiest class to learn and needs the least amount of skill to be effective. 

The amount of QQ I have seen over the years from necros. While being the class who least deserves any QQ. 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Iridi.8473]

14 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Necros are always so funny. 

"literally unplayable" I hear them say then look at the play rates going to the moon. 

"never been viable" they screech from the roof tops while doing top tier dps. 

"hardest to play class" when necro is the easiest class to learn and needs the least amount of skill to be effective. 

The amount of QQ I have seen over the years from necros. While being the class who least deserves any QQ. 

 

Clearly hasnt played necro or hasnt played necro in a higher competitive setting. Stay in your lane if you have noting to offer. Also, seems like you main warrior which is so hilarious considering defensive condi zerker absolutely trashes every necro build. Keep your jokes to yourself plz.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Iridi.8473

[Gamble.4580]

Yep wars always been a hard counter to necro. Only time necro felt good into war was condi reaper meta but once we lost the curruption it was a free farm for war again.

I think necro feels good right now. Its a great class to switch to for many games on diffrent maps. Zerker reaper is still brilliant and a great pick for some games but not all ofc. Core necro is a better choice over scourge for the 5v5 maps like skyhammer and still works well 2vx with support.. Condi reaper is still good with some comps vs comps. 

Necro is in a good place its just not broken like before where it was 100% needed to match the 5v5 as no dps peels better than a necro or works well with support. The shaves on it just took that 5v5 value out of it enough to make u pick a 1v1er or better pump dps. Peeps forget how game changeing in a 5v5 to go into ds aoe currpt that stab to fear then pop of a rez cleave or counter bomb, plays like that with the skills it had just made necro a great pick in 5v5.

Like necro is 100% still a platinum lvl class. Issue is,  its no longer noob friendly.

Necro was always the class gold players main to get a plat tag because most skills even if wasted where useful and opened kill windows for good dps to take advantage off and great skills to spam on nodes. 

So builds like scourge and core necro where perfect for this and because they where gutted necro become skill play over class carry.

Necro is just not noob friendly no more. Its still easy to play and understand. But as u cant waste skills now its more skill to climb. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Gamble.4580

[Bazsi.2734]

Necro bad. Need blocks and evades. And stealth. What was a-net thinking?

[Iridi.8473]

11 hours ago, Gamble.4580 said:

Yep wars always been a hard counter to necro. Only time necro felt good into war was condi reaper meta but once we lost the curruption it was a free farm for war again.

I think necro feels good right now. Its a great class to switch to for many games on diffrent maps. Zerker reaper is still brilliant and a great pick for some games but not all ofc. Core necro is a better choice over scourge for the 5v5 maps like skyhammer and still works well 2vx with support.. Condi reaper is still good with some comps vs comps. 

Necro is in a good place its just not broken like before where it was 100% needed to match the 5v5 as no dps peels better than a necro or works well with support. The shaves on it just took that 5v5 value out of it enough to make u pick a 1v1er or better pump dps. Peeps forget how game changeing in a 5v5 to go into ds aoe currpt that stab to fear then pop of a rez cleave or counter bomb, plays like that with the skills it had just made necro a great pick in 5v5.

Like necro is 100% still a platinum lvl class. Issue is,  its no longer noob friendly.

Necro was always the class gold players main to get a plat tag because most skills even if wasted where useful and opened kill windows for good dps to take advantage off and great skills to spam on nodes. 

So builds like scourge and core necro where perfect for this and because they where gutted necro become skill play over class carry.

Necro is just not noob friendly no more. Its still easy to play and understand. But as u cant waste skills now its more skill to climb. 

 

 

Yea going to have to respectfully disagree. Necro isnt a plat-tier class. Zerker reaper loses to most classes and there's a reason why it's usually targeted first cuz it's a free kill unless the entire team supports it. Unlike other classes, necro lacks to ability to carry a game. A good condi zerker warrior can carry a match. A good thief can carry. A good holo/scrapper/sb can carry. Necro cant. Not in plat. 

[Gamble.4580]

2 hours ago, Iridi.8473 said:

Yea going to have to respectfully disagree. Necro isnt a plat-tier class. Zerker reaper loses to most classes and there's a reason why it's usually targeted first cuz it's a free kill unless the entire team supports it. Unlike other classes, necro lacks to ability to carry a game. A good condi zerker warrior can carry a match. A good thief can carry. A good holo/scrapper/sb can carry. Necro cant. Not in plat. 

Although i agree with u it can be out played. I have 4 accounts and necro mained on all and p2  on all. I switched from all 3 builds to match what i got to vs. So it is a plat class. Leg no bit plat 100

[Flowki.7194]

I never fight a necro and think it was a good fight. The second life 1 button easy sustain is horrible. I do also love how this is defended becuase necro struggles if focused (who the fk doesnt??), oh right, core gaurd and bladesworn.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[magickthief.6492]

The necros in plat, chew up many things other classes struggle with. They have a variety of builds and roles. The element of weakness, in this complaint, isn't the class.