NOBODY was complaining about pistol

[Gendalfs.7521]

Yesterday made some tests with training golem. I played Mech.

Condi, pistol, bomb kit is still highest dps (29k was maximum I could reach) compared to condi mace, power hammer, I wont mention Rifle (that thing is a joke).

Viper everything with elementalist runes and relic of fractal.

I didnt try other builds.

So pistol is still best of the bad 😄

Btw Condi Fire tempest full cele, balthazar runes no relic 🙂 x2 fire summons I got  max 24k. Rotation is way easier, no kit juggling, no Mechanical Geniuss kitten. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Gendalfs.7521
Added info

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:23 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

Something was nerfed while it was being widely complained about? -omg, why does anet nerf things just because people complain about it?!
Something was nerfed because anet deemed it worth nerfing? -omg, why does anet nerf things when nobody complained about it?!

Maybe it's time to stop pretending existence of the complaints or lack of them has anything to do with you disliking nerfs.

I'm sure there were droves of people complaining that engi pistol of all things, was very strong.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:26 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

Yup, this one. At the moment OP started posting about pistol nerfs (he had more posts in a thread in "general discussion" subforum, but OP of that thread asked mods to delete it) and saying things like he did in this thread where "engie weapons are supposed to be not viable now", he didn't even know the results/dps numbers after those nerfs.
So it is just complaining about nerfs because nerfs happened, exactly. And he is free to dislike those -or any other- nerfs, but -again- he didn't even check how it truly influenced anything before complaining on the forum about them happening.

Not sure about that, if they're pulling holo down to, lets say, 40k then much easier condi mech builds reaching similar values makes no sense and as such they also need to be pulled back a bit. There's your logical reason. Again, if they wanted to target holo and nothing else, they'd do it like they did in similar cases for other classes in this very same patch.

The issue i have with this assessment is that you speak like Anet has been a beacon of consistency with their buffs and nerfs over the years, which they haven't. If anything, they're known for doing extremely headscratching buffs/nerfs. What sounds logic to all of us, is not what they tend to go with. Sure, people blow things out of proportion, but again, it's not like the pistol nerf hits just condi-holo. It hits all the other pistol-using builds, including condi core.

Why would Anet nerf condi core engineer? How is it overperforming?

[Sobx.1758]

46 minutes ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

I'm sure there were droves of people complaining that engi pistol of all things, was very strong.

How is this responding (or even how is this relevant at all) to anything you just quoted? Really, I don't understand why you just wrote this (other the possibility that you misunderstood what I wrote).

42 minutes ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

The issue i have with this assessment is that you speak like Anet has been a beacon of consistency with their buffs and nerfs over the years, which they haven't. If anything, they're known for doing extremely headscratching buffs/nerfs. What sounds logic to all of us, is not what they tend to go with. Sure, people blow things out of proportion, but again, it's not like the pistol nerf hits just condi-holo. It hits all the other pistol-using builds, including condi core.

It doesn't matter what you think about anyone's consistency, they made targeted nerfs in this patch, if they wanted to only target holo, they could easly only target holo.

I don't know what you're trying to do with this response btw. Someone wrote there's no logical reason, I pointed out that there easly is a logical reason for that change and you're responding with... "what sounds logic[al?] to all of us, is not what they tend to go with"? What is this supposed to mean within the context of this comment chain? That there is a logical explanation, but you don't like it so that's not it?

 

As for this question:

42 minutes ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Why would Anet nerf condi core engineer? How is it overperforming?

I'll just ask the same thing I asked in another thread (which, surprise!, remained unanswered):

On 9/28/2023 at 3:41 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

Wonder how many of you -in this thread- really keep spamming core engie in all of the pve content though, to the point that this is totally the main issue for you.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

6 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

The issue i have with this assessment is that you speak like Anet has been a beacon of consistency with their buffs and nerfs over the years, which they haven't. If anything, they're known for doing extremely headscratching buffs/nerfs. What sounds logic to all of us, is not what they tend to go with. Sure, people blow things out of proportion, but again, it's not like the pistol nerf hits just condi-holo. It hits all the other pistol-using builds, including condi core.

Why would Anet nerf condi core engineer? How is it overperforming?

Follow the money.  That's the best explanation I have for this.  The weapon mastery is the new "toy" that they want to sell, so when it comes to reigning in overperforming builds, proper balance is secondary to making sure SotO sells.  If the new unlocked weapon combos are the best option available, Anet is going to make sure it stays the best option available.  

[Jitters.9401]

On 9/29/2023 at 5:48 AM, Mewone.3247 said:

they buffed Virtuoso and since that day there were more buffs than nerfs

We must be playing different games.

I've been in squads with 30 people and been the only virtuoso.  I also actively look for virtuosos just to remind them I'm #1. 

 

But buffs? No.

Dagger #2skill was ruined. 

Dagger #3 Skill utterly destroyed.  

Blades F5 made into a useless joke with a high cooldown.  The block it once provided was barely mediocre at best. Very high cooldown for a few seconds extra of life.   It really needs to be buffed to compensate for hiw useless it really is in wvw. 

 

It just tickles even a glass canon enemy. The only actual use is to tag multiple downed foes.

 

But I guess qe have to wait for anet to play a virtuoso for any real buff to occur.

[Atmaweapon.7345]

My hypothesis from what I've gleaned from Gw2 Wingman and what current benchmarks we have:

1.  Anything that was above a 44-45k golem benchmark was nerfed stupidly hard compared to everything else. This is why Condi Holo dps got nerfed below Condi Virt which took a paltry 10% bleed reduction on Jagged Mind and nothing else.
2.  They didn't want to change the damage gulf between Condi Holo and Enigneer's other specs, hence why Pistol took a nerf, this keeps Condi Holo at least 2k ahead of Condi Mech.
3.  A spec's popularity is somewhat taken into account. Vindicator is one of the least popular specs in the game and one of its balance cornerstones (greatsword) got heavily nerfed. Hence they drastically overbuffed it and now it benches 43k. Taking points 1 and 2 into account, they didn't want increase Condi Mech popularity as a result of Condi Holo nerfs, so they targeted Pistol as part of the nerfs.

Now that we've gone over why they nerfed Engineer in this manner we can go over why they were wrong to do it this way.

1. Nobody was complaining that Condi Holo was among, if not the highest dps before the SotO changes. People generally understood that it was the most PITA piano build in the entire game and gave up nearly any sort of utility and nothing about this has changed at all.
2. Going into SoTO, nothing changed about Condi Holo's kit compared to other professions like Catalyst gaining access to both Sword and Warhorn. All of Condi Holo's damage increases were a result of system changes to Runes and the introduction of Relics.
3. They nerfed the majority of Condi builds in the game and the ones that weren't nerfed are on the chopping block. Clearly it would have been much simpler to nerf the offending Runes and Relics (Condi duration -> Expertise on runes so that they aren't overstatted, Relic nerfs in general so that the proc relics don't completely crowd out the other options.)
4. Condi Holo is currently benching at the same level of a much easier ranged spec with uility that had 5 times its popularity before Holo was even nerfed (Condi Virt). This is incredibly dumb and they went completely overboard with nerfs.

 

[Mewone.3247]

On 10/2/2023 at 4:22 PM, Jitters.9401 said:

We must be playing different games.

I've been in squads with 30 people and been the only virtuoso

Yes we are playing different games because I couldn't care less about your open world or meta event experience in 30man squads when Anet balances around endgame content.

[Jitters.9401]

On 10/4/2023 at 6:59 AM, Mewone.3247 said:

Yes we are playing different games because I couldn't care less about your open world or meta event experience in 30man squads when Anet balances around endgame content.

Lol

You are seriously upset that someone called you out for deliberately making a false statement.  I just had a good laugh.

 

Considering F5 maasively nerfed. #2 Dagger nerfed, #3 Dagger Nerfed    the defender rune special stat nerfed for Virtuoso even before relics came into being... 

Then the defender relic is utterly pathetic because anet doesn't want virtuoso's to benefit from healing when blocking while thieves, rangers, ele's, willbenders, have so many ways to escape combat or stop any virtuoso from escaping.

Virtuoso is incredibly lacking in such a manner.

Sooooo

Like WOW were you ever wrong.  I do not do pve beyond treasure mushrooms. For you To be so wrong about virtuoso tells me you are a pve hero and have no clue what actually goes on in wvw.

I'd say nice try, but lol  not even close. 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

10 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Lol

You are seriously upset that someone called you out for deliberately making a false statement.  I just had a good laugh.

Seems to me more like the two of you were thinking of different environments and, until now, you hadn't clarified that you were thinking about WvW.

Virtuoso IS pretty common in PvE. I've been taking a bit of a break from endgame instanced content lately, but it still seems to be doing fairly well there, and I raised an eyebrow myself at the open world metas statement because I see them reasonably frequently there. Quite possibly the most popular mesmer elite spec in PvE overall, especially for straight DPS roles. WvW, though, might be entirely different due to how projectile-based virtuoso is.

[Mewone.3247]

On 10/10/2023 at 10:08 AM, Jitters.9401 said:

For you To be so wrong about virtuoso tells me you are a pve hero and have no clue what actually goes on in wvw.

Nobody cares about pvp in this game, not even the devs. Do yourself a favor and play any real competitive game out there with a decent elo system and dont waste your time in a dead game mode that people do for daily. Also, why would you try to shittalk pve when doing stuff like ko/ht cm is miles above the capability of your average wvw player that you encounter? Like, everyone knows how casual this community is and you wanna brag about how you zerk these noobs in a wvw stack? As I said before, we do not play the same game.

[Jitters.9401]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:45 AM, Mewone.3247 said:

Nobody cares about pvp in this game, not even the devs. Do yourself a favor and play any real competitive game out there with a decent elo system and dont waste your time in a dead game mode that people do for daily. Also, why would you try to shittalk pve when doing stuff like ko/ht cm is miles above the capability of your average wvw player that you encounter? Like, everyone knows how casual this community is and you wanna brag about how you zerk these noobs in a wvw stack? As I said before, we do not play the same game.

Wooooeeee, you make me laugh. This game, my best was 1vs6. Me vs 6. My second best was Me vs 5. Roaming is where it is at. 

 

I think the difference between us, is that though I thoroughly enjoy trolling people as part of the game in the end, it is no big deal what happens. 

You really seem to take offense at things that should make no difference in how you perceive yourself outside the game. No judgment here. Whatever makes you happy. 

 

[Stx.4857]

8 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Wooooeeee, you make me laugh. This game, my best was 1vs6. Me vs 6. My second best was Me vs 5. Roaming is where it is at. 

 

I think the difference between us, is that though I thoroughly enjoy trolling people as part of the game in the end, it is no big deal what happens. 

You really seem to take offense at things that should make no difference in how you perceive yourself outside the game. No judgment here. Whatever makes you happy. 

 

You entered into a conversation that was very clearly comparing PvE performance between Condi holo and Condi virt, and then started mouthing off about how virt is this and that in PvP….  Bruh.  

[Jitters.9401]

On 10/20/2023 at 10:35 AM, Stx.4857 said:

You entered into a conversation that was very clearly comparing PvE performance between Condi holo and Condi virt, and then started mouthing off about how virt is this and that in PvP….  Bruh.  

Someone's buying underpants that are a few sizes too small.

The first post read as follows" 

""""Why was pistol nerfed? It was in a somewhat decent state. SOTO did not change anything with its power level. So why was it nerfed? Are engineer weapons not supposed to ever be viable?""""

 

Yes. It was clearly written to compare conditions virt vs condition holo in pve. Somehow I missed seeing the perfectly written words "condi virt", "condi holo", and "pve".

LoL

 

 

[Ghos.1326]

guys, guys, guys....

while you all fight and destroy each other over complaining about nerfs, lets address the elephant in the room.

lets make burn and poison how they were before they massively buffed them in pvp pre-HoT: only one stack. burn can get buffed again to do around 700-800 damage per second (with high condition damage) and poison can do around 350-400 per second (still keeping the added nerf to received healing by 33% when afflicted with poison). Also, pump up the duration for them again since they'll only be 1 stack again.

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, Ghos.1326 said:

guys, guys, guys....

while you all fight and destroy each other over complaining about nerfs, lets address the elephant in the room.

lets make burn and poison how they were before they massively buffed them in pvp pre-HoT: only one stack. burn can get buffed again to do around 700-800 damage per second (with high condition damage) and poison can do around 350-400 per second (still keeping the added nerf to received healing by 33% when afflicted with poison). Also, pump up the duration for them again since they'll only be 1 stack again.

That would be terrible for group PvE, since only one player out of five, ten, or a full stack of 50 would get to see their burning/poison working at a time. They were changed for good reason.

[Trejgon.9367]

14 hours ago, Ghos.1326 said:

while you all fight and destroy each other over complaining about nerfs, lets address the elephant in the room.

they were already not doing it for like a month 🙂

 

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

On 9/29/2023 at 6:48 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

How is this responding (or even how is this relevant at all) to anything you just quoted? Really, I don't understand why you just wrote this (other the possibility that you misunderstood what I wrote).

It doesn't matter what you think about anyone's consistency, they made targeted nerfs in this patch, if they wanted to only target holo, they could easly only target holo.

I don't know what you're trying to do with this response btw. Someone wrote there's no logical reason, I pointed out that there easly is a logical reason for that change and you're responding with... "what sounds logic[al?] to all of us, is not what they tend to go with"? What is this supposed to mean within the context of this comment chain? That there is a logical explanation, but you don't like it so that's not it?

 

As for this question:

I'll just ask the same thing I asked in another thread (which, surprise!, remained unanswered):

I'll try to explain it to you very slowly so you don't get confused:

Pistols were nerfed as a overall. The specific build that required management was Condi Holo. Any other pistol-using builds were NOT overperforming. Anet is known for doing blanket changes that affects everyone. Their banner rework for Warriors was a good example of that. They did the "CC-damage" pass ages ago and did not account for classes like Warrior who depended on the CC doing damage because of how prone to missing their telegraphed attacks they were.

If you don't understand that Anet is not consistent at all, and they mostly look at metrics without understanding what those metrics mean, then i can't help you. But the fact you found my response ilogical just tells me you have a hard time dealing with contrarian opinions and you just want confirmation.

Either that or you live in a different world. Because i couldn't have been more clear: This was a nerf aimed at a specific spec, but it affected everyone using that specific weapon, including other specs. Not hard to understand at all.

Btw, i'll just say this: I didn't even want Holo nerfed. Holo is hard as hell, and GW2 is not a competitive game, no matter how much specific people want it to be. There's absolutely no harm in leaving some very hard specs on the top of their camp, if you balance the bottom to perform well while being accessible to new and impaired players. Anet did not even nerf Holo specifically, if i recall correctly, it was just Pistol nerfs.

Pistol. That powerful Engi weapon. The only reason everyone and their mother are running Maces now is probably because they can't handle the massive uberness of Pistol. That must be it.

But yeah, that's all in the past now. Doesn't matter anymore, we're getting offhand pistol buffs, a improvement to the 3rd skill and all that jazz. I just wanted to answer this because you sound detached from reality and it's funny seeing you not understand the simple concept of blanket "widespread" nerfs to try to nerf something specific and hitting other things as collateral. You know, that thing Anet loves doing.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

I'll try to explain it to you very slowly so you don't get confused:

Clearly I'm not the one who needs things to be "explained slowly" here. What you responded there is still irrelevant to what you've quoted in that post and nothing you said here now changes it in any way nor does it address it, so maybe lay off your bad condescending tone and try understanding what you've quoted in the first place.

1 hour ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Pistols were nerfed as a overall.

That's nothing I needed explained, I literally said that. So, again, I don't know why you're typing this to me? What exactly is this supposed to be addressing from my post?

1 hour ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

The specific build that required management was Condi Holo. Any other pistol-using builds were NOT overperforming.

It was a while ago, but preeeetty sure I mentioned there was a strong low intensity condi p/p build. The build is still doing fine. What you think might have been overperforming or not is irrelevant. And again, I'm preeetty sure I already addressed the potential reasoning behind it right around here, second quote: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/138211-nobody-was-complaining-about-pistol/#comment-2001350

1 hour ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Either that or you live in a different world. Because i couldn't have been more clear: This was a nerf aimed at a specific spec, but it affected everyone using that specific weapon, including other specs. Not hard to understand at all.

 

If it was aimed at specific spec, they have tools to aim specific spec and they proved they can do that in the very same patch. You're wrong, condi p/p nonholo builds are still doing perfectly fine.

1 hour ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

But yeah, that's all in the past now. Doesn't matter anymore, we're getting offhand pistol buffs, a improvement to the 3rd skill and all that jazz. I just wanted to answer this because you sound detached from reality and it's funny seeing you not understand the simple concept of blanket "widespread" nerfs to try to nerf something specific and hitting other things as collateral. You know, that thing Anet loves doing.

It's quite ironic you're using these insults here, considering none of the upcoming changes address anything you were complaining about nor do they change anything about what I wrote in this thread. 🤦‍♂️

 

Anwyays, just like in your post before, this doesn't really address what I said, instead just attempts to make some weird personal remarks, right from the start of the post. Try re-reading what you've quoted in the previous posts and then actually adress them.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Veneratio.1980]

Sorry but what was the nerf? 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Veneratio.1980