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[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

I'm not the easiest man in the world to please (Still not a fan of number changes) but these changes, along with the new relics, actually shows there is major hope for the design trajectory of this game.

I really like this one

Relic of Karakosa: Heal other nearby allies when you successfully combo a field with a blast finisher

Not a huge fan of the massive numbers buffs...but listen...I'll take what I can get, especially if what we are getting is making some of the functionally dysfunctional skills and skill interactions in this game functional, useful and meaningful to people to actually use them for something. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Deadmoose.6594]

I'm just pretty worried if there's a lot of number buffs, things will just get increasingly bursty which is already a problem.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Soulbeast while merged has additional mobility skills that Core/Druid/Untamed do not as well as increased damage--so my point was you saying the smokescale nerfs for non-soulbeast 'is fine' makes no sense when they are less offensive than soulbeast is (which can also use the KD twice, once merged, once unmerged because no CD share).  

Oh they dont' share cd, sorry I didn't know. Well in that case it would surely have made sense to make them share CD. But that obviosuly isnt whats going to happen. I still stick back what I said though, close range CC makes far more balance sense than long range CC.

 

 

[Deadmoose.6594]

49 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

But you know, it's ok that a Chronomancer can double Moa while laying down 40k bursts left & right.

As a mesmer main I've argued for removing moa completely from pvp several times. Mesmer really doesn't need this ability in pvp by any means at all. No argument can be made to keep moa.

[Flowki.7194]

9 minutes ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

As a mesmer main I've argued for removing moa completely from pvp several times. Mesmer really doesn't need this ability in pvp by any means at all. No argument can be made to keep moa.

Oh finally, a mesmer that admits it 😜, youre a rare mesmer indeed.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Deadmoose.6594]

Just now, Flowki.7194 said:

Oh finally, a mesmer that admits it 😜

I made a post about it, and people just criticized me for complaining and not using it. I refuse to use it personally...it's such a bs ability.

[Flowki.7194]

Just now, Deadmoose.6594 said:

I made a post about it, and people just criticized me for complaining and not using it. I refuse to use it personally...it's such a bs ability.

No disagreements here, I'd remove simply on the princible of how fking confusing it is for newbs. Why am I a bird? what do these abilitys do? lets have a look, oh, im dead.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Ranger has gotten buffs for like the past 5 patches dude... you think buffing a class every time creates good balance? 

Gonna have to name em.

As in the last five patches (since July 18th) we had: OWP nerf, sword nerf, Prelude Lash nerf, Maul nerf, Signet of Hunt nerf, Ambush nerf, and Solar beam nerf.  

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Nobody is going to use birds. The Swoop is on too long of a CD. Gazelle is better in every way for the role that the bird would play both in and out of merge.

Agree to disagree here--Swoop may be on 18s CD but it is getting coefficient increase + 4 additional vuln stacks and new Quickening Screech is just mandatory, as still applies swiftness (hello speed relic) and now removes cripple, immob, and chilled every 15s?!

The more I read the patch notes the more I hate them though; they are basically making a reciped for unbalanced soulbeast again and pets themselves (unmerged) are pretty much getting straight nerfs (ex: Jacranda with 'Fixed an issue that caused pet to have more health than was intended' lol).  

Edited October 29, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Relic changes: Meh

Ele: Hammer Cata is meta. Anets needs to stop buffing things that are meta. If it isn't broke don't fix it.

Engie: Mostly meh, but hey spectrum shield buff. Nerf to condi mechanist feels more like a casual player nerf since the build wasn't actually that busted, but it is annoying so it's hard to care.

Guardian: Meh

Mesmer: Buffing condi mesmer in any form is always a bad idea. The mechanics of mesmer make it so whenever condi mes becomes viable in high level play it tends to become SS+ due to how extremely uninteractive the playstyle is.

Necro changes: Meh

Ranger: BEAR METAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA but seriously though pets needed some internal balance. The only problem here is this large amount of changes may result in a lot of unintended busted builds so don't be surprised if Ranger gets some followup emergency nerfs.

Revenant: Very nice that Rev is being given a new weapon ( The CoR bug made hammer unusable against any non-braindead player so this is the same thing as a new weapon ).

Thief: Oh look, they finally found a way to make Impact Strike worth taking.

Warrior: Meh

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Last Crab.6054]

16 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

 But I don't moan: I'm perfectly fine with Rev not being a thing in PvP. 

me too, too bad that is not true.

[Myror.7521]

10 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Nobody is going to use birds. The Swoop is on too long of a CD. Gazelle is better in every way for the role that the bird would play both in and out of merge.

Smokescale will STILL be mandatory no matter how weak it becomes because of the smoke field, which is a primary factor in these build's ability to function. This is why I say removing the CC off Smokescale unmerge is just a problem.

The damage increase on Smokescale merge Takedown will be broken temporarily in conjunction with Gazelle usage. What will happen is they will combo in with Smoke Assault merge, go into Takedown for large damage, swap to Gazelle F2 CC that also has large damage and do the quick F1 Kick that also has considerable damage.

I have no problem with the merge Takedown going into damage but as you said, people will likely complain because it's Ranger, and it will be swiftly nerfed, just resulting in the class being more dysfunctional before they made any of these half-thought changes. But you know, it's ok that a Chronomancer can double Moa while laying down 40k bursts left & right.

The Smokescale unmerge Takedown losing its CC is complete bull**** though. That CC is very important for Ranger gameplay across all variants. Because smokefield is mandatory, we'll always have to use Smokescale, and losing that 2s CC is will prove to be a detrimental problem just significant enough, that it will be pushing Ranger specs down into mediocrity for sure.

Moral of the story is that: NERFING ONE WOLF PACK BY 60% OF ITS DAMAGE OUTPUT AND NERFING PIG MAUL AND SWORD AND LET IT LOOSE WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH. If they keep removing stuff from Ranger, even old veterans like myself will be forced to play a different class because at this point they are just straight handicapping Ranger across all its specs.

I don't understand why they don't focus on the obvious issues. Like right now, Untamed sustain factors is actually questionable, but everything else on Ranger is like entering a state of disability from over-nerfing and they seriously need to leave it alone unless they just want the class to sit out.

And yet ranger is still too good xd. I like that i Finaly not get cced by ranger cause me dodge its GS CC while He instantly using pets CC and inget CCed anyways ^^. At least after all its broken mechanics this will get Finaly nerfed thanks alot to this xd

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

11 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Ranger: BEAR METAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA but seriously though pets needed some internal balance. The only problem here is this large amount of changes may result in a lot of unintended busted builds so don't be surprised if Ranger gets some followup emergency nerfs.

It won't.

The single nerf to Smokescale is like a -10 to the +5 it's getting in other areas.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

I made a post about it, and people just criticized me for complaining and not using it. I refuse to use it personally...it's such a bs ability.

Hi its me

I'm not a mesmer main but I 1000% advocate for their ability to turn people into an ostrich.

It brings me a shred of joy because of how ridiculous it is. 

Prob should be able to jump as the moa though, so you can kite properly. Outright removal though? Never.

[Alucard.3906]

Omg

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

16 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

I'm just pretty worried if there's a lot of number buffs, things will just get increasingly bursty which is already a problem.

That and pretty much everything got some kind of sustain buff.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It won't.

The single nerf to Smokescale is like a -10 to the +5 it's getting in other areas.

Smokescale is always going to be picked because of the smoke field. There will almost certainly be several strong pets that people will start using in the 2nd slot that will more than make up for losing 1 cc skill.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Smokescale is always going to be picked because of the smoke field. There will almost certainly be several strong pets that people will start using in the 2nd slot that will more than make up for losing 1 cc skill.

No. You're not understanding how Ranger attack streams work. This is equivalent of if something like Bull's Charge had its CC effect removed.

The CC on the Smokescale unmerge and in-merge is that important for securing kills.

Having a bit of extra damage isn't going to help anything if you can't keep someone locked down to land it.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

32 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Having a bit of extra damage isn't going to help anything if you can't keep someone locked down to land it.

"Please make smokescale more telegraphed"

Anet: *removes knockdown*

/upset

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

No. You're not understanding how Ranger attack streams work. This is equivalent of if something like Bull's Charge had its CC effect removed.

The CC on the Smokescale unmerge and in-merge is that important for securing kills.

Having a bit of extra damage isn't going to help anything if you can't keep someone locked down to land it.

But thats getting into the question of range and risk. You can't overlook the fact LB has 15-1700 (what is the exact max?). Sure, los abuse, reflects, small maps, I get it. But that isn't a given all the time. Its like spellbreakers on the opposite end, who defend any level of stun uptime by ''close range spec, just kite/just dodge''. I finished off plenty people who were trying to get out of a losing group fight with forced auto/LB2 shots to the back, it wasnt a rare thing, and it didn't require a knockdown.

 

Yeah I know "doesn't happen ever at plat/mat level"

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Irrational.2871]

smokescale exists 10 years without any nerfs 180% of rangers using it in pvp/wvw with any extra pet if they could they would take 2 smokescales now nerfs kicks in and rangers crying xddddd

[Grimjack.8130]

19 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Relic changes: Meh

Ele: Hammer Cata is meta. Anets needs to stop buffing things that are meta. If it isn't broke don't fix it.

hard to take anything u say serious when you see a "pve only" buff and apply it to pvp

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

But thats getting into the question of range and risk

 

17 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

 i Finaly not get cced by ranger cause me dodge its GS CC while He instantly using pets CC and inget CCed anyways ^^.

 

Ya'll need to agree on what you are getting wrecked with--one side we have ranged CC in LB #4 and the other melee CC in GS #5--both of which somehow lead to Smokescale KD being an issue?

I'll just say as devil's advocate, the latter makes way more sense to me as you aren't setting up a ranged CC with smokescale unless you are Untamed, because while the AI is predictable in its ordering it is really hard to actually pull pet KD => burst on soulbeast off. 

I can see a merged ranger trying GS #5 then Smokescale KD as a backup--one of the reasons I advocated if they remove the CC only remove it from merged soulbeast.  

Smokescale CC isn't the only one that behaves this way while merged, but won't go further into that lest the other pets lose their CC's too.  

Anyway, I'm not actually sure what the dev rationale is because everytime I try to view the Twitch stream 2/3 of them are muted during the ranger portion for me.  Like I hear Roy talking but the other guy that supposedly is balancing the pets has no sound on the stream.  Which is ironic, but if someone can point me to them actually discussing smokescale it would be very helpful.  

[Last Crab.6054]

19 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

 

Ya'll need to agree on what you are getting wrecked with--one side we have ranged CC in LB #4 and the other melee CC in GS #5--both of which somehow lead to Smokescale KD being an issue?

I'll just say as devil's advocate, the latter makes way more sense to me as you aren't setting up a ranged CC with smokescale unless you are Untamed, because while the AI is predictable in its ordering it is really hard to actually pull pet KD => burst on soulbeast off. 

I can see a merged ranger trying GS #5 then Smokescale KD as a backup--one of the reasons I advocated if they remove the CC only remove it from merged soulbeast.  

Smokescale CC isn't the only one that behaves this way while merged, but won't go further into that lest the other pets lose their CC's too.  

Anyway, I'm not actually sure what the dev rationale is because everytime I try to view the Twitch stream 2/3 of them are muted during the ranger portion for me.  Like I hear Roy talking but the other guy that supposedly is balancing the pets has no sound on the stream.  Which is ironic, but if someone can point me to them actually discussing smokescale it would be very helpful.  

RNG cc from a pet that already has good utility is bad for the game, has been since 2015. 

Stop playing victim.

 

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

RNG cc from a pet that already has good utility is bad for the game, has been since 2015. 

Stop playing victim.

 

 

Not RNG my dude.  

On pet swap smokescale will do smoke assault then takedown--all pets have patterns like this.

Also, again, not the only pet with a non-F2 CC.

L2P?

Edited October 30, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267