Puck.3697 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Balsa.3951 said: jade bot is a obvious one That's not verticle progression. Its not ever growing. You buy a level 10 bot and done for life.... its just something you buy once and move on, there's no verticle progression to that system. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said: That's not verticle progression. Its not ever growing. You buy a level 10 bot and done for life.... its just something you buy once and move on, there's no verticle progression to that system. i don't get in that discussion again. u can bent facts if it makes u happy. but jade bot is just one example of many how a expact buyer gets a pure power boos vs a core player. so we have vertical progress u can talk down like oh but its just a tiny boost which its not but ok. ignore facts replace it with ur opinion than 6 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck.3697 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, Balsa.3951 said: many how a expact buyer gets a pure power boos vs a core player That'd make it p2w not verticle progression. Verticle progression doesn't mean how strong vs core you are, otherwise you'd consider elite speccs and weapon mastery verticle progression. WoW is verticle progression I.e farming continous upgrades. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said: That'd make it p2w not verticle progression. Verticle progression doesn't mean how strong vs core you are, otherwise you'd consider elite speccs and weapon mastery verticle progression. WoW is verticle progression I.e farming continous upgrades. it doesn't matter if u every 3 months farm for more power.or every 2 years. more powerful is vertical. u are like seeing 2 people in a room one is 180 the other is 183 and u say thats not a vertical grow its only.3 centemiter. 5 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck.3697 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said: it doesn't matter if u every 3 months farm for more power.or every 2 years. more powerful is vertical. u are like seeing 2 people in a room one is 180 the other is 183 and u say thats not a vertical grow its only.3 centemiter. While true. The fact the jade bot isn't growing at all entirely. Means its not a progressive system. Just because power grows vertically doesn't mean the system is verticle. The system has no verticle progression. However yes Your characters power has travelled upwards vertically there's no progression to gw2s systems. And no system grows vertically. Which is the meaning of verticle progression. No system gets stronger from grinding it. What ur referring to is power creep. The jade bot was a power creep handed to players who purchased EoD and that is a advantage to paying players sure. Edited November 10, 2023 by Puck.3697 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, Puck.3697 said: While true. The fact the jade bot isn't growing at all entirely. Means its not a progressive system. Just because power grows vertically doesn't mean the system is verticle. The system has no verticle progression. However yes Your characters power has travelled upwards vertically there's no progression to gw2s systems. And no system grows vertically. Which is the meaning of verticle progression. No system gets stronger from grinding it. thats goes nowhere u ignore the fact of vertical progress due jade bot and say its not bcs it stopped growing.... guess what wow also have a limit for each vertical progress and expansion.give a new power limit. Soto expanded on our power as well. and so will next expansion anyway im out think what u like 1 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck.3697 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said: thats goes nowhere u ignore the fact of vertical progress due jade bot and say its not bcs it stopped growing But there was no progression yoy litterally didn't progress anything. The jade bot is the identical factor of if anet just buffed base vit of all classes. Itd of changed nothing regardless of either of these options 6 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said: guess what wow also have a limit for each vertical progress and expansion.give a new power limit No. Every Patch gives WoW another power limit lol. You actively grind gear, for weeks. For a patch to eliminate your progress and refarm gear again. In gw2 if you play 1 month of EoD and quit til the following expansion. Your still completed returning to the game. In WoW do the same and you will be massively behind absolutely everyone. Verticle progression means a system that progresses vertically as you grind it. You dont grind the jade bot, it doesnt increase in power. The system itself isn't verticle. Because there's no engagement with the system to make it stronger or grow. It's funny that you make such statements thinking ur right but don't understand what verticle progression is. A verticle progression is when a system continously grows from player engagement with said system. Its quite clear you haven't actually played a verticle progressive game, if you think power creep and verticle progression are the same thing. Edited November 10, 2023 by Puck.3697 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said: thats goes nowhere u ignore the fact of vertical progress due jade bot and say its not bcs it stopped growing.... guess what wow also have a limit for each vertical progress and expansion.give a new power limit. Nothing in WoW's progression is "limited". Unless you are fooled by item level numbers instead of looking at the actual stat progression. Each content patch (not expansion, expansions are on a totally new level power creep and gear wise) which adds new dungeons and raids has significant power progression towards all skill levels. That's the entire concept behind their gearing system and also a major contributing factor as to why content becomes significantly easier once cleared the first time. As to GW2, yes there has been (actually) limited vertical progression added in form of new system (the jade bot being an example of more vitality) as well as power creep (weapon mastery is an example of power creep without actual gear progression) as well as gear creep (the relic system and change to runes is an example of gear creep). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Puck.3697 said: But SoTos a 1 year expansion if I'm correct in whst I've followed regarding things, So it'd be wild if it delkevered the same amount of content Also wasn't Anet going on about how Soto isn't actually an expansion on the level of HoT/PoF/EoD, but a mini expansion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vares.8457 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Balsa.3951 said: jade bot is a obvious one lol Jade bot is not vertical progression. You don’t seem to know what that term means. 5 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 41 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said: But there was no progression yoy litterally didn't progress anything. The jade bot is the identical factor of if anet just buffed base vit of all classes. Itd of changed nothing regardless of either of these options No. Every Patch gives WoW another power limit lol. You actively grind gear, for weeks. For a patch to eliminate your progress and refarm gear again. In gw2 if you play 1 month of EoD and quit til the following expansion. Your still completed returning to the game. In WoW do the same and you will be massively behind absolutely everyone. Verticle progression means a system that progresses vertically as you grind it. You dont grind the jade bot, it doesnt increase in power. The system itself isn't verticle. Because there's no engagement with the system to make it stronger or grow. It's funny that you make such statements thinking ur right but don't understand what verticle progression is. A verticle progression is when a system continously grows from player engagement with said system. Its quite clear you haven't actually played a verticle progressive game, if you think power creep and verticle progression are the same thing. it s still vertical progress... it doesn't matter if its less can u admit that a eod player has more.power than a core player? 1 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, vares.8457 said: lol Jade bot is not vertical progression. You don’t seem to know what that term means. show me a proof that its not before exposing ur dunning Krueger syndrome plz Edited November 10, 2023 by Balsa.3951 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar.8634 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 59 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said: elite speccs and weapon mastery verticle progression. They actually are. If with expansion character becomes stronger then without it it is vertical progression by definition. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said: They actually are. If with expansion character becomes stronger then without it it is vertical progression by definition. It's power creep. Vertical progression in context of power creep usually refers to gear progression. Best be clear and separate both even if they are often hand in hand. Gear progression usually leads to power creep. Power creep is not limited to gear progression. Edited November 10, 2023 by Cyninja.2954 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, Cyninja.2954 said: It's power creep. Vertical progression in context of power creep usually refers to gear progression. what is a jade bot ? not gear? ppl holding on on any excuse to not call a bird a bird. 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, Balsa.3951 said: what is a jade bot ? not gear? ppl holding on on any excuse to not call a bird a bird. I literally said earlier that the jade bot constitutes vertical progression. Please read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, Cyninja.2954 said: I literally said earlier that the jade bot constitutes vertical progression. Please read! my bad 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar.8634 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said: It's power creep. Vertical progression in context of power creep usually refers to gear progression. Vertical progression refers to player power increase with expansion. Btw bot, weapons mastery are gear progression. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said: Vertical progression refers to player power increase with expansion. Btw bot, weapons mastery are gear progression. The bot is gear progression, the weapon mastery is not. You do not get access to stronger gear but simply new option in regards to already existing gear, hence why it is important to distinguish both. Both are power creep (where as weapon mastery "could" be balanced to minimize power creep). Given vertical progression is often used in reference to vertical gear progression (or a vertical gear thread-mill), it is easier to be clear on which of both ones is referring to. Edited November 10, 2023 by Cyninja.2954 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar.8634 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said: The bot is gear progression, the weapon mastery is not. Since now any ele brings warhorn in instance PvE for the reason it is stronger choice, it became stronger with weapon mastery, which is exactly what vertical progression is. No need to add a ton of terms you find in internet, they often have same meaning just used on different forums. Vertical progression means power goes up with new content and that is what happening with each expansion. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said: Since now any ele brings warhorn in instance PvE for the reason it is stronger choice, it became stronger with weapon mastery, which is exactly what vertical progression is. No need to add a ton of terms you find in internet, they often have same meaning just used on different forums. Vertical progression means power goes up with new content and that is what happening with each expansion. It's power creep, not vertical gear progression. Vertical gear progression refers to gaining access to higher quality gear. It's not that difficult a concept. It's not adding terms when clarity and being specific for things which CAN differ is relevant. If warhorn where perfectly balanced, it would minimize/remove the power creep. That will not happen with higher quality gear unless that gear is made equal to a lower quality gear piece (pretty much never done in any game). This muddying is exactly WHY it is important to distinguish and actually look at where issues come from and then appropriately name them. You are essentially saying that power creep = gear progression, which is incorrect. Power creep can be a result of many things besides gear progression where gear progression will almost always result in power creep. Edited November 10, 2023 by Cyninja.2954 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagheaded.1306 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) I like the new expansion. The new maps are very pretty, and the story is vaguely engaging, which is fine for me. Game characters are amusing (except whatever happened to with Dagda's face, good lord), fun to see Zojja back. Seems to be catered to players who haven't been playing GW2 since the stone ages (or perhaps specifically for them), making it fairly low intensity compared to EOD. The new strike CM seems fun, and with 5 strike CMs already in place alongside 13 raid wing CM, I think that's okay. I want to find out what happens after Heitor. Particularly with that concealed map, it reminds me of Dragonfall/Dragon's Stand, with maps that unfold over time. Sometimes suspense is good! Unless they want me to shell out another 20 bucks, in which case* I will come back here to shitpost! Edited November 10, 2023 by Nagheaded.1306 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said: it s still vertical progress... it doesn't matter if its less can u admit that a eod player has more.power than a core player? Except a core player has access to Ascended gear just like other people with said Ascended gear being the same level of stats ever since it came out. If you stop playing during HoT and come back now your Reaper wearing level 80 Exotic gear will have the exact same stats. If you stop playing WoW at the start of DF with theoretically the best gear obtainable, by now there'd be better. BiS gear from previous expansion is around the level of starting gear in the new expansion. I stopped playing Shadowlands with ~275 ilevel, now the lowest dungeon loot in DF dungeons is like 340. That is vertical progression, Anet adding tidbits of gear or extras that make you stronger by a little bit is not. If each expansion increased the max level allowing us to get stronger and stronger gear then yeah, you'd be right with vertical progression, but as I said, someone playing in 2014 with full Ascended gear won't have less stats than now. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futa.4375 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 You won't get much support here, the same people that are so busy playing the game will keep posting in defense of anything ANet does. ANet is basically milking us at this point and being as lazy as possible while they work on something else, they don't care about GW2 anymore, what they're adding doesn't even feel GW2. We went through the exact same thing on FFXI years ago. Sadly, there is nothing you can do though except for leaving and playing something else. Noone should be ok with what we are getting in SotO but the addiction and the false sense of belonging are often stronger and they know it. 3 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar.8634 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said: It's power creep, not vertical gear progression That's why I said you terms from different forums often mean same thing. In context of gw2 updates, vertical progression and power creep means same thing. Talking gw2 does not have each of them is misleading, while they both are same thing. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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