(AXE)Thought about it: felt I SHOULD SHARE this but...

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Slow the axe preview video down to .25 speed or similar, go to 0:06 and at 0:08...what do you see happen to the thief while they are stationary? Yup...you saw it right....we get a distortion effect...no it's not a dodge...it's an evasion effect...we're getting an i-frame bois and gulls and in-betweens!

 

You heard it here folks. 

 

Something told me there was something to see if we slowed the video down for analysis and I was right

 

Leave a 🏆 icon as a reaction to show hype/to thank me !

 

While we're at it come check out EcK in my signature. Largest growing thief exclusive community! PvE thief only stacking in raids, fractals, strikes and more! We're looking for a twitch/youtube streamer and some discord experts, commanders to hold farm events and trainers knowledgeable in Endgame! Also looking for a thief populated wvw server besides Maguuma!

 

(Edited to clarify EVASION, NOT DISTORTION)

 

[Confirmed on livestream] 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230
Semantics, I meant evasion not distortion

[Asra.8746]

It's not a distortion effect; it's a shadowstep effect.

At best, it is a short duration dodge; at worst, it's a placeholder effect. It's the same effect used by Pistol Whip.

...but, don't let me stop you from hyping yourself up only to be very disappointed to find out that they won't ever give thief that; especially not after spending years gutting the class's survivability and self-sustain in fights.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Asra.8746

[LichOverlord.6329]

"

32 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

 Yup...you saw it right....we get a distortion effect...no it's not a dodge...it's a distortion effect...we're getting an i-frame bois and gulls and in-betweens!

I'm sorry, but you saw it wrong. It's not a distortion effect, it's the animation for shadowstep. This is a given, considering the skill the thief uses to recall the axes has a shadowstep attached to it.

"The dual-wield skill with an off-hand dagger is Harrowing Storm. The thief teleports to a targeted enemy and recalls all spinning axes back to themselves, augmenting the axes to also inflict torment." - taken directly from the announcement

This is a thief we're talking about, not a mirage - and this is a ranged weapon, so having a weird distortion on dodge like the mirage does doesn't fit thematically nor mechanically with what they're trying to do, here. What you're seeing in the video is them jumping into melee range, using their "2" skill to throw out 3 axes (Venomous Volley), and then using their "3" skill (dual-wield) with a dagger off-hand, Harrowing Storm, to shadowstep to the enemy and recall their axes. 

I can see how you would mistake a shadowstep for a distortion, though, as it soooorta looks like that when you're already within melee range when using it - the animation plays, but you don't move that much since you're already at the target.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Ok. We will see. @Zacchary.6183,  @ZeroTheRuler.7415 @DarkstarChimaera.5120 what do you guys take from it,  shadowstep animation looks much different than the blur effect i see vs shadowsteps wisping black streams around the thief. Also watching the greatsword of the mob run through the thief with NO hit collission effect nor flinching of the thief on hit. I still hold true to what I see. I've made a semantically error and called it distortion, edited and called evasion. I'm an idiot...

Edited November 10, 2023 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[Zacchary.6183]

49 minutes ago, LichOverlord.6329 said:

"

I'm sorry, but you saw it wrong. It's not a distortion effect, it's the animation for shadowstep. This is a given, considering the skill the thief uses to recall the axes has a shadowstep attached to it.

"The dual-wield skill with an off-hand dagger is Harrowing Storm. The thief teleports to a targeted enemy and recalls all spinning axes back to themselves, augmenting the axes to also inflict torment." - taken directly from the announcement

This is a thief we're talking about, not a mirage - and this is a ranged weapon, so having a weird distortion on dodge like the mirage does doesn't fit thematically nor mechanically with what they're trying to do, here. What you're seeing in the video is them jumping into melee range, using their "2" skill to throw out 3 axes (Venomous Volley), and then using their "3" skill (dual-wield) with a dagger off-hand, Harrowing Storm, to shadowstep to the enemy and recall their axes. 

I can see how you would mistake a shadowstep for a distortion, though, as it soooorta looks like that when you're already within melee range when using it - the animation plays, but you don't move that much since you're already at the target.

The animations for a shadowstep differ for each weapon, however its safe to point out that anet looks to have designed these to have elements of Mirage and Ranger Axe. I wouldn't be surprised if they copied and modified Mirage Axe when designing it for thief. If that is the case, the distortion effect is the axe shadowstep animation at worst. At best, it is a shadowstep with a short distortion tacked on. I don't think anet would go through the trouble to focus in and show the effect in the middle of an enemy attack if it didn't have any importance. Because otherwise Axe looks to be just a pseudo-ranged melee weapon. Either way, I am not holding my breath for this weapon. I knew it was going to be condi and the condition was going to be something thief already has ample access to. Now I am just waiting for it to get nerfed.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Zacchary.6183

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

What I don't understand is thief is supposed to be burst damage mostly. With just poison which ticks take longer on and torment which is only high if they sit still ad a smaller portion than bleeding...why? Why torment? Bleeds deal way more than torment.

[remorseless.6352]

Another mainhand and another ranged wep. Couldnt have been anything worse 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Confirmed livestream

[remorseless.6352]

Ye confirmed how bad axe is lol

[Meridian.9103]

yeah, didn't look impressive at all, honestly. sad

[Nomad.4301]

If this doesn't have un-blockable on the skill 3 (or it doesn't count as a projectile at all) then it will be a pointless addition, because it will either be bad in competitive modes (due to reflects, block etc..) and in PvE thief will always default to whatever weapon has the highest DPS benchmark, so if this ends up being better in PvE then RIP scepter (or dagger/staff if power), if not then RIP axe, assuming it gets no use in PvP/WvW (outside of single target roaming which thief already has MANY options for weapons) due to axe being entirely projectile based it will end up just like sword useless in PvE and limited to single-target roaming in competitive.

So in short this is either a better weapon for DPS then what we have, and everyone will switch to it by default or it'll be worse and nobody will use it thus becoming sword 2.0, because it's a projectile based ranged-only weapon its usefulness in WvW will be greatly diminished by all the projectile hate messing up your spinning axes even WITH piercing. Interestingly enough the Axe 3 skill(s) tooltip doesn't state that it's piercing or hits more than 1 target, and they never showed them using axe on more than 1 target so who knows if your big combo move is even an AoE or not 🤷‍♂️.

I REALLY want this to fill the WvW AoE DPS zerg niche for thief and AoE Condi for PvE, as I can't see any other point in it existing other then to replace already existing weapons (thanks initiative) if it does end up being higher DPS, guess we'll see tomorrow.

Edit* Upon re-watching the stream it looks like all the #3 skill does it recall your axes duplicating the damage and effects of the original attack that put down the axe plus 2 stacks of torment per axe and immob for 5+ or 33% more damage per axe + weakness, the 3 skills doesn't have any of its own damage. Also interesting to note the axe put down by the stealth attack gave the thief revealed, despite not having stealth active, which I hope is a bug..

Edited November 27, 2023 by Nomad.4301

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Felt underwhelmed watching it. Cheated a bit even.

 

Like I get due to how spamable our skills are, we don't get many things flashy or good on a single use.

But something about the axe just looks lackluster compared to everything else. Like it feels like it doesn't offer anything new, and got hampered heavily.

 

Torment isn't great in PvP due to people constantly moving, and having it on the "power" setup seems counter intuitive. I'd rather have bleed than poison, as bleed ticks much faster. More important when thief doesn't have any staying power.

Ranged attacks doesn't really have anything going for it unless the init is cheap. Dual pistols does power better, scepter does condi better. And P/D has better utility.

 

Things might change if the axes spinning around were able to deal damage, kiting and area control possibilities there. But no dice, and the cleave won't help with projectile reflects in WvW (thief for ever left in the dust by zerf commanders and professions that do everything the thief does, better.)

 

And the evade window on three is nice.... But like... It's attached to an attacking skill, so using it defensively is counter productive. And the two skill seems to be what you use instead of auto attacks.

And then there's the sneak attack. I like the idea of an exploding axe... But the deadeye sneak attack is more of a cop out - and feels like it punishes the thief more. Like... Why would I drop my damage bonus to apply poison that's only increased in duration? Something that gets shrugged off by most professions easily? You could have played more into the explosion part of it. Increase the radius of the blast per stack and apply knock back. So it's an AOE and a powerful tool for thief. But nope. Poison.

Im glad I didn't put any effort into trying to get a legendary or good skin for it. Because I feel like it'll just fall into the same "unused" category as scepter for me

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

46 minutes ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

Felt underwhelmed watching it. Cheated a bit even.

 

Like I get due to how spamable our skills are, we don't get many things flashy or good on a single use.

But something about the axe just looks lackluster compared to everything else. Like it feels like it doesn't offer anything new, and got hampered heavily.

 

Torment isn't great in PvP due to people constantly moving, and having it on the "power" setup seems counter intuitive. I'd rather have bleed than poison, as bleed ticks much faster. More important when thief doesn't have any staying power.

Ranged attacks doesn't really have anything going for it unless the init is cheap. Dual pistols does power better, scepter does condi better. And P/D has better utility.

 

Things might change if the axes spinning around were able to deal damage, kiting and area control possibilities there. But no dice, and the cleave won't help with projectile reflects in WvW (thief for ever left in the dust by zerf commanders and professions that do everything the thief does, better.)

 

And the evade window on three is nice.... But like... It's attached to an attacking skill, so using it defensively is counter productive. And the two skill seems to be what you use instead of auto attacks.

And then there's the sneak attack. I like the idea of an exploding axe... But the deadeye sneak attack is more of a cop out - and feels like it punishes the thief more. Like... Why would I drop my damage bonus to apply poison that's only increased in duration? Something that gets shrugged off by most professions easily? You could have played more into the explosion part of it. Increase the radius of the blast per stack and apply knock back. So it's an AOE and a powerful tool for thief. But nope. Poison.

Im glad I didn't put any effort into trying to get a legendary or good skin for it. Because I feel like it'll just fall into the same "unused" category as scepter for me

 

I feel u. Come test it with us tomorrow

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

Felt underwhelmed watching it. Cheated a bit even.

 

Like I get due to how spamable our skills are, we don't get many things flashy or good on a single use.

But something about the axe just looks lackluster compared to everything else. Like it feels like it doesn't offer anything new, and got hampered heavily.

 

Torment isn't great in PvP due to people constantly moving, and having it on the "power" setup seems counter intuitive. I'd rather have bleed than poison, as bleed ticks much faster. More important when thief doesn't have any staying power.

Ranged attacks doesn't really have anything going for it unless the init is cheap. Dual pistols does power better, scepter does condi better. And P/D has better utility.

 

Things might change if the axes spinning around were able to deal damage, kiting and area control possibilities there. But no dice, and the cleave won't help with projectile reflects in WvW (thief for ever left in the dust by zerf commanders and professions that do everything the thief does, better.)

 

And the evade window on three is nice.... But like... It's attached to an attacking skill, so using it defensively is counter productive. And the two skill seems to be what you use instead of auto attacks.

And then there's the sneak attack. I like the idea of an exploding axe... But the deadeye sneak attack is more of a cop out - and feels like it punishes the thief more. Like... Why would I drop my damage bonus to apply poison that's only increased in duration? Something that gets shrugged off by most professions easily? You could have played more into the explosion part of it. Increase the radius of the blast per stack and apply knock back. So it's an AOE and a powerful tool for thief. But nope. Poison.

Im glad I didn't put any effort into trying to get a legendary or good skin for it. Because I feel like it'll just fall into the same "unused" category as scepter for me

 

The other Elite Specs weapons and skill design had a visceral impact. I actually physically lean into skills on all three Elites and most of Core like I do in a Roller Beatle race. Hopefully Anet still designed for the physical connection players generally have with GW2 combat and didn't make a floaty gimmick. 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:58 AM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

What I don't understand is thief is supposed to be burst damage mostly. With just poison which ticks take longer on and torment which is only high if they sit still ad a smaller portion than bleeding...why? Why torment? Bleeds deal way more than torment.

The logic is probably to maintain some torment to synergise with spectre but... spectre is probably going to keep using sceptre from my messing around with it. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The logic is probably to maintain some torment to synergise with spectre but... spectre is probably going to keep using sceptre from my messing around with it. 

with reduced base initiative i wouldnt do it

 

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

with reduced base initiative i wouldnt do it

 

I was finding myself able to do 2-2-3 conveniently enough, although that was with Trickery, and you'd need to go into shroud after that. If you have the shadow force to do it. But spectre is likely to build shadow force much faster with sceptre, and sceptre is less reliant on combos and therefore more forgiving of not having full initiative when you start.

It might have a niche in target-rich environments when the tormenting axes have the opportunity to hit multiple targets, but that might be easier said than done.

I should note that just because I have a theory as to why they might have chosen torment over some other damaging condition, doesn't mean that I think it's necessarily working out in practice.

Kinda feels like it might be best as an AoE weapon for a condi deadeye (as long as you get right up in the enemy's face before using the stealth attack) or maybe condi daredevil. But I'm not convinced, especially since those are the sorts of circumstances where dagger/dagger is already likely to thrive in while, again, being simpler to use.