Rifle Mesmers Direct Allies to the Nearest Emergency Exit

[Every day pon.5386]

On 11/15/2023 at 8:38 AM, LichOverlord.6329 said:

I dont disagree with some of what you're saying, and I think you're making some good points, but what you're addressing here is much more core to the class toolkit itself and how it handles support, boons, etc.

A weapon isn't going to allow a class to support by itself - it's only going to enhance the support coming from the other abilities and traits of the class

The idea is that this weapon will work with the changes coming to mesmer healing in the balance patch on the 28th, but yes, I do think that they can go farther with this and allow for more support options for mesmer - but that's something that will have to be addressed at the fundamental class level in a balance patch, and not via a weapon

Any 3rd maximum range 2-hander competes or disrupts more than a decade of existing game mechanics like Staff & GS, Rifle has no place IMO, if anything I see Anet disrupting perfect mechanics (like Staff now in disarray) to implement/force weapon swaps & break over a decade of Specialization craft 💧

We already enjoy greatly crafted Power, Condition, & CC Mesmer roles, therefore: Mesmer theory doesn't need disruption of these effective roles while Mesmer role support as a bugle for our Shining Blade ensemble is more available to be holistically improved with instruments such as trumpets/Horn for our glory to Divinity's Reach & muh Queen Jennah, Her Royal Majesty Queen of Kryta

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 11/15/2023 at 1:17 PM, Gesbo.6420 said:

Maybe allowing you to retargrt clones on your current target too! That would be unique and nifty

Rare yes, but not quite unique.

[Gesbo.6420]

10 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Rare yes, but not quite unique.

Good call! What I meant was probably all of your illusions not only the ones holding the same weapon as you, but good shout!

[Mevelios.4809]

1 hour ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

Good call! What I meant was probably all of your illusions not only the ones holding the same weapon as you, but good shout!

Well, that's something restricted to a single e-spec currently, beyond axe 3.

[Teknomancer.4895]

2 hours ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

Well, that's something restricted to a single e-spec currently, beyond axe 3.

It would be nice if that re-targeting restriction got loosened a little bit, for sure. I'm not convinced there's any real reason for it to be tied to Mirage skills, even if the axe is (now) usable with any spec.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

11 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

It would be nice if that re-targeting restriction got loosened a little bit, for sure. I'm not convinced there's any real reason for it to be tied to Mirage skills, even if the axe is (now) usable with any spec.

maybe we could do that with some kind of relic....

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:53 AM, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

I can already see some funny jumping puzzle moments with that 5. Imagine a squad of rifle mesmer at jps just shoot and portal each other to the finish lol.

Hoping it can summon 2 Phantasms by default, giving Chrono base 100% uptime a la the Greatsword but untraited. Wonder what the Clone skill will be too. 

It is almost certainly going to have a LOS and pathing requirement.  Meaning, it's gonna fail almost all the time.  Sorry, there was a blade of grass in the way, your portal failed.

[LichOverlord.6329]

18 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

It would be nice if that re-targeting restriction got loosened a little bit, for sure. I'm not convinced there's any real reason for it to be tied to Mirage skills, even if the axe is (now) usable with any spec.

I mean, I kind of like that only mirage gets to fine-tune where their clones focus, considering dancing around the battlefield from enemy to enemy is sort of their whole "thing"

I feel like if you just gave chronomancer an illusionary ambush skill, it would remove some of the uniqueness of mirage's toolkit - they already did that when removing our ability to dodge while CC'd, they don't need to do that again tbh

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

5 hours ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

It is almost certainly going to have a LOS and pathing requirement.  Meaning, it's gonna fail almost all the time.  Sorry, there was a blade of grass in the way, your portal failed.

That's just an issue with teleporting skills, portal skills have never had such issue. I don't doubt it might turn out to be like such due to an oversight, but the fact that they specifically refer to it as a portal instead of teleporting must be intentional.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, LichOverlord.6329 said:

I mean, I kind of like that only mirage gets to fine-tune where their clones focus, considering dancing around the battlefield from enemy to enemy is sort of their whole "thing"

I feel like if you just gave chronomancer an illusionary ambush skill, it would remove some of the uniqueness of mirage's toolkit - they already did that when removing our ability to dodge while CC'd, they don't need to do that again tbh

I think there's also an aspect where the mirage skill specifically involves a mirage mechanic (it gives you and your clones Mirage Cloak, which grants ambush attacks). Giving that functionality to regular mesmers would probably be better with a separate skill.

[Teknomancer.4895]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think there's also an aspect where the mirage skill specifically involves a mirage mechanic (it gives you and your clones Mirage Cloak, which grants ambush attacks). Giving that functionality to regular mesmers would probably be better with a separate skill.

That's only true of the utility skill now though, not the axe one (since weapons aren't spec-locked anymore). If you're Core, Chrono or Virt using an axe and then use the weapon skill, you don't get Mirage Cloak since you're not a Mirage.

TBH the illusion-retargeting function would make more sense as a trait in the Chaos line, maybe even call it "Order from Chaos." It wouldn't necessarily have to retain the "breaks enemy targeting" function.

It would probably be OP if it did, and then of course every other class would break out the pitchforks and torches again demanding more Mesmer nerfs...le sigh.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Teknomancer.4895
clarity

[ShadowKatt.6740]

9 hours ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

It is almost certainly going to have a LOS and pathing requirement.  Meaning, it's gonna fail almost all the time.  Sorry, there was a blade of grass in the way, your portal failed.

Okay, but I think you're wrong. Just stick with me on this one. If the devs were lazy, and they are lazy (all devs are), then they're going to implement this with as little effort as possible. Now, I am also lazy, and so I understand how lazy people think. If I was going to do this, I would literally grab the code that operates portals. Work's already done, all we gotta do is change some numbers. Instead of having the exit point be Portal B, we're going to make it Mesmer A. Instead of Range 2000, change that to Range 1200. Portal Radius reduced from 100 to 75, and reduce the # of uses from 20 down to 1. Slap that on a weapon, assign it to skill #5, and voila! You have a portal gun and it took you less time to code the thing than it did to make the thumbnail artwork.

I have every reason to believe that LoS isn't going to be an issue here, but I understand why you think there would be. Afterall, Blink does and that's a LITERAL TELEPORT. In this case though I think you can relax, I don't think you're going to have a problem.

[MedievalThings.5417]

5 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Okay, but I think you're wrong. Just stick with me on this one. If the devs were lazy, and they are lazy (all devs are), then they're going to implement this with as little effort as possible. Now, I am also lazy, and so I understand how lazy people think. If I was going to do this, I would literally grab the code that operates portals. Work's already done, all we gotta do is change some numbers. Instead of having the exit point be Portal B, we're going to make it Mesmer A. Instead of Range 2000, change that to Range 1200. Portal Radius reduced from 100 to 75, and reduce the # of uses from 20 down to 1. Slap that on a weapon, assign it to skill #5, and voila! You have a portal gun and it took you less time to code the thing than it did to make the thumbnail artwork.

I have every reason to believe that LoS isn't going to be an issue here, but I understand why you think there would be. Afterall, Blink does and that's a LITERAL TELEPORT. In this case though I think you can relax, I don't think you're going to have a problem.

Sand Swell

Punishment. Plunge into the ground, creating a portal through Tyria for allied use. Grant allies using this passage a health barrier. Convert a boon on nearby enemies into torment.

This is what they will likely copy though, cause what's the point in having a weapon skill that has a 1 minute cooldown on one of the skills.  I really want to be wrong.  I would love it to be a normal portal, with maybe a 3-5 player limit.  I imagine how fun and useful it would be even in jump puzzles or on a wall to port friendlies back inside.  But, this is Anet, and I'm not holding my breath.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Sand Swell

Punishment. Plunge into the ground, creating a portal through Tyria for allied use. Grant allies using this passage a health barrier. Convert a boon on nearby enemies into torment.

This is what they will likely copy though, cause what's the point in having a weapon skill that has a 1 minute cooldown on one of the skills.  I really want to be wrong.  I would love it to be a normal portal, with maybe a 3-5 player limit.  I imagine how fun and useful it would be even in jump puzzles or on a wall to port friendlies back inside.  But, this is Anet, and I'm not holding my breath.

I think you're being a little overly optimistic. I purrsonally think this portal shot is going to get reworked relatively quickly because as it stands it's going to be absolutely useless. I'm not saying it couldn't have its uses, but you would need such a degree of coordination that you'd probably need to be in direct, voice communication with someone to make it work at all. Otherwise, we'll just be shooting portals no one will know about and fewer will use. I was thinking about that doing the Inner Nayos meta. If I'm standing in the safe spot behind a pillar, I could shoot a portal! I could yoink someone to safety right with me (And I'd bet a shitload of money that's what they were thinking too). But think about being in that meta. The big circle lights up, everyone runs to the pillars, you shoot a portal.....and people are gonna run right past it because why wouldn't they? You mentioned porting people across the wall in WvW, but I'll tell you if I'm outside and there's a zerg that wants to paint me across that wall I'm not looking for a portal. See this is the reason why so many people are talking about this being a niche, borderline useless weapon, at least with the info we have no. Throwing beacons to grant might and fury is fine, but it's not as if there's not going to be a dozen other people doing the same thing at the same time, and that stuff caps. Ooooo, we're helping! Barrier and Resistance on the other shot....well, Barrier is fine, I guess, but in my experience there's almost no amount of barrier that's gonna save the day in a fight you're already losing. I get what Anet was thinking when they made it, but a common complaint is that the people that make the game don't actually play the game, and I feel like this rifle kinda reflects that.

[Gesbo.6420]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:14 PM, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

I think you're being a little overly optimistic. I purrsonally think this portal shot is going to get reworked relatively quickly because as it stands it's going to be absolutely useless. I'm not saying it couldn't have its uses, but you would need such a degree of coordination that you'd probably need to be in direct, voice communication with someone to make it work at all. Otherwise, we'll just be shooting portals no one will know about and fewer will use. I was thinking about that doing the Inner Nayos meta. If I'm standing in the safe spot behind a pillar, I could shoot a portal! I could yoink someone to safety right with me (And I'd bet a shitload of money that's what they were thinking too). But think about being in that meta. The big circle lights up, everyone runs to the pillars, you shoot a portal.....and people are gonna run right past it because why wouldn't they? You mentioned porting people across the wall in WvW, but I'll tell you if I'm outside and there's a zerg that wants to paint me across that wall I'm not looking for a portal. See this is the reason why so many people are talking about this being a niche, borderline useless weapon, at least with the info we have no. Throwing beacons to grant might and fury is fine, but it's not as if there's not going to be a dozen other people doing the same thing at the same time, and that stuff caps. Ooooo, we're helping! Barrier and Resistance on the other shot....well, Barrier is fine, I guess, but in my experience there's almost no amount of barrier that's gonna save the day in a fight you're already losing. I get what Anet was thinking when they made it, but a common complaint is that the people that make the game don't actually play the game, and I feel like this rifle kinda reflects that.

League has a champion called Thresh. He has one time use movement ability where you throw a lantern in an area, shield them, and your teammates can click on it so you can pull them out of a sticky situation.

Sounds familiar?

Overwatch has a character called life weaver. You pick a target and you snach them away from harms way. 

Both of these completely sucked in the beginning before people got used to their mechanics but once people learner they became top pics. 

Let's at least see gown things turn out before we judge the gameplay. I personally am extremely excited to toy around with it

[Levetty.1279]

2 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

League has a champion called Thresh. He has one time use movement ability where you throw a lantern in an area, shield them, and your teammates can click on it so you can pull them out of a sticky situation.

Sounds familiar?

Overwatch has a character called life weaver. You pick a target and you snach them away from harms way. 

Both of these completely sucked in the beginning before people got used to their mechanics but once people learner they became top pics. 

Let's at least see gown things turn out before we judge the gameplay. I personally am extremely excited to toy around with it

This isn't the first portal in the game and Overwatch and LoL are completely different games.

We've already had 10 years to see how things turn out.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

5 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

League has a champion called Thresh. He has one time use movement ability where you throw a lantern in an area, shield them, and your teammates can click on it so you can pull them out of a sticky situation.

Sounds familiar?

Overwatch has a character called life weaver. You pick a target and you snach them away from harms way. 

Both of these completely sucked in the beginning before people got used to their mechanics but once people learner they became top pics. 

Let's at least see gown things turn out before we judge the gameplay. I personally am extremely excited to toy around with it

Okay, but counter point: I don't play either but aren't both League of Legends and Overwatch proffesionally competetive games? As in, both are games with a high emphasis on coordinated team gameplay? That's far and away much more than you almost ever see in GW2. Even in Raids, Strikes, and high level Fractals there's not a great deal of coordination. You fill a role and you're expected to perform in that role, timing and synergy not really the most important things.

We do need to see how things turn out, but for the time being I'm going to stand by what I said. But hey, here's hoping you get what you want.

[Gesbo.6420]

4 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Okay, but counter point: I don't play either but aren't both League of Legends and Overwatch proffesionally competetive games? As in, both are games with a high emphasis on coordinated team gameplay? That's far and away much more than you almost ever see in GW2. Even in Raids, Strikes, and high level Fractals there's not a great deal of coordination. You fill a role and you're expected to perform in that role, timing and synergy not really the most important things.

We do need to see how things turn out, but for the time being I'm going to stand by what I said. But hey, here's hoping you get what you want.

... so your counter argument is "playing with other people is hard, we must just mash buttons"?

 

In the end of the day it is new tools. All I'm suggesting is have an open mind...

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

This isn't the first portal in the game and Overwatch and LoL are completely different games.

We've already had 10 years to see how things turn out.

Yep, because absolutely nobody uses portal in any content whatsoever. /s

And that's with a skill that is purely drop-at-own-feet. Being able to drop the entrance portal some distance away will open up new plays.

Might be awkward with groups that aren't expecting it, and it might have been better as a utility than a weapon skill, but the idea at least does have merit.

[Levetty.1279]

10 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Yep, because absolutely nobody uses portal in any content whatsoever. /s

If you are going to argue against strawman, why bother replying to somebody? Just argue with the voices in your head and save everybody else the confusion of trying to figure out what you are talking about.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

19 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

And that's with a skill that is purely drop-at-own-feet. Being able to drop the entrance portal some distance away will open up new plays.

Eh, and again, remember that we can only portal one person with it. So on top of everything else...we have that. I get that obviously you don't want it to just be the replacement for mesmer portals, but...one? So opening up new plays....maybe, for that one person.

[draxynnic.3719]

13 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

If you are going to argue against strawman, why bother replying to somebody? Just argue with the voices in your head and save everybody else the confusion of trying to figure out what you are talking about.

Your implication from saying 'this isn't the first portal in the game' implies that people haven't found uses for portals.

In fact, portal in sPvP used to be so dominant that it had to be nerfed harshly to make it so that mesmers could play without it without effectively griefing their team (even in soloqueue, good portal use and map awareness meant that you could effectively maintain presence on two points at once). Mesmers hiding in WvW forts and portalling an invasion force in is why enemies within a fort now get revealed when the fort is taken.

Portal use for jumping puzzles are well known, and there are several endgame instances where they can certainly make things a lot faster and more convenient. For someone who's default response to disagreement is often some variant of 'if you disagree with me, you obviously don't play the game', you're either being disingenuous or ignorant yourself if you're making the argument that portals don't get used.

Only affecting a single target is a handicap. The possibility that the portal will be missed if not communicated well is very real. But I can already think of a number of ways in which it could be used. If you can't... well. Maybe you don't know the game as well as you make out.

[Crey.5263]

On 11/16/2023 at 5:10 AM, Levetty.1279 said:

heal OR boons

The two things Chrono healer is currently bad at at the moment is might generation and healing. The Rifle forces Mesmer to chose to do one or the other making it pointless, and using the terrible well pulsing mechanic as an extra insult too.

If you're having trouble with Might generation, I'd recommend Relic of the Midnight King, my chrono is doing swimmingly with that now.

Which leads me to wonder what is the CC ability on the rifle.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

1 hour ago, Crey.5263 said:

If you're having trouble with Might generation, I'd recommend Relic of the Midnight King, my chrono is doing swimmingly with that now.

Which leads me to wonder what is the CC ability on the rifle.

Well the 2 skills shown so far aren't CC skills unless exploding the Beacon also Dazes.

 

The remaining skills are the clone, phantasm, and auto attack.

I don't really expect any of those to be CC skills.

 

The CC is normally on the other skills.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

Can the Shield trigger the Relic of the Midnight King twice? Once on the way out and once on the way back?