About harbringer and soul reaping traitline

[zeyeti.8347]

Hello, 

Just reminded from a forum fellow something weird that i didn't noticed for a long time about harbringer and necro e-spec with some trait being "non" functional.

Soul Battery in soul reaping : adds nothing to harbringer , it helps core necro and reaper by allowing them to sustain more damage once in shroud , but the life drain/sec is in % so no matter the quantity of life force stocked the base duration without taking any damage will still be the same, for scourge it helps a lot because shroud skills have base cost in life force and not a % so +20% of max "mana" pool helps. But this trait does nothing for harbringer , his shroud does not act as a second skin for damage and the base life force drain is also in % so this trait in soul reaping has 0 benefit for harb , having it or not doesn't change anything. As an idea making it change to something like that only for harb (as anet is now confortable with changing traits with specific e-specs interaction like guardian virtue cd reduced changed in less unactive tome passiv effect for firebrand) , could be like less hp% loss per blight stack (1,25 instead of 1,5) or less life force drained each sec (4% instead of 5)

There is another trait i remind not working properly with harb and also scourge , it's unholy sanctuary(Who Is In Death magic "quote" so everybody stop pointing that out ...) , while in  scourge it give you a barrier upon a fatal hit , it give you nothing in harbringer mode , just one block froma  fatal hit  but i think this trait is already on the way to be reworked , i may be mistaken , i didn't remind.

Edited November 27, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

unholy sanctuary

yeah, that one is absolutely worthless for Harbinger but just the lethal blow part. Also, it's in Death Magic, nor Soul Reaping.

[zeyeti.8347]

i didn't say it was in soul reaping

[SeTect.5918]

3 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

 

There is another trait i remind not working properly with harb and also scourge , it's unholy sanctuary , while in  scourge it give you a barrier upon a fatal hit , it give you nothing in harbringer mode , just one block froma  fatal hit  but i think this trait is already on the way to be reworked , i may be mistaken , i didn't remind.

Yeah even the hp per sec while in shroud is not as useful as on other e specs because the hp per sec is based on max hp which is reduced as harbinger by blight so the healing itself is being reduced aswell.

[Joxer.6024]

5 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

i didn't say it was in soul reaping

"Soul Battery in soul reaping"..... 

;)

[Asum.4960]

15 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

As an idea making it change to something like that only for harb (as anet is now confortable with changing traits with specific e-specs interaction like guardian virtue cd reduced changed in less unactive tome passiv effect for firebrand) , could be like less hp% loss per blight stack (1,25 instead of 1,5) or less life force drained each sec (4% instead of 5)

Rather than changing Traits on a per Elite Spec basis, ensuring that every elite spec always wants to use the exact same meta Traitlines and Traits (and often "Utility" Skills and Weapons), playing largely the same way with the exception of just the Elite Specialisation Mechanic - I'd much rather see different Elite Specs synergise with different Traitlines, making them feel much less samey. 

Harbinger getting nothing out of some Traits in Soul Reaping, which has been a must pick on every PvE Necro build for eternity, would be completely fine if Harbinger, which is more focused around fast multihits than Core, Reaper and Scourge, would have had for example a Blood Magic Damage line available (in place of all it's dead traits), which it could take instead. 

Alchemic Vigor or one of the top line Power Traits could have been a trait multiplying the damage component only of Life Siphon's by ~4x (to avoid a situation like pre-nerf Battlescars Rev, which had such high Life Siphons both in damage and healing that Dance of Death became both the best DPS and Sustain Trait) - and the whole E-Spec would have had a different, more Vampiric, theme setting it apart from the other specs, while also solving it's increased need for sustain due to lack of Shroud and Barrier through BM, as well as the synergy struggles of SR, as well as providing Power Harb off-hand options with Focus and Warhorn becoming much more attractive, which are currently rather dead due to their Life Siphon mechanic massively underperforming.

Likewise, cHarb could have been much more focused around Poison, and been synergising with Death Magic, with some buffs to Putrid Defense, as well as the finally upcoming change to Deadly Strength also granting Condition Damage (and ideally changing DM to grant percentage based DR, rather than Toughness). 

I personally find the lack of creativity on Anet's part in that regard fairly disappointing, where we end up just slotting different Elite Specs into the otherwise pretty much exact same cookie cutter Power or Condi  build. 

[zeyeti.8347]

13 hours ago, Joxer.6024 said:

"Soul Battery in soul reaping"..... 

😉

we talked about unholy sanctuary at that part , not soul battery , and soul battery is in soul reaping , but i agree my formulation could have been more precise ...

Edited November 27, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[zeyeti.8347]

6 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Rather than changing Traits on a per Elite Spec basis, ensuring that every elite spec always wants to use the exact same meta Traitlines and Traits (and often "Utility" Skills and Weapons), playing largely the same way with the exception of just the Elite Specialisation Mechanic - I'd much rather see different Elite Specs synergise with different Traitlines, making them feel much less samey. 

Harbinger getting nothing out of some Traits in Soul Reaping, which has been a must pick on every PvE Necro build for eternity, would be completely fine if Harbinger, which is more focused around fast multihits than Core, Reaper and Scourge, would have had for example a Blood Magic Damage line available (in place of all it's dead traits), which it could take instead. 

Alchemic Vigor or one of the top line Power Traits could have been a trait multiplying the damage component only of Life Siphon's by ~4x (to avoid a situation like pre-nerf Battlescars Rev, which had such high Life Siphons both in damage and healing that Dance of Death became both the best DPS and Sustain Trait) - and the whole E-Spec would have had a different, more Vampiric, theme setting it apart from the other specs, while also solving it's increased need for sustain due to lack of Shroud and Barrier through BM, as well as the synergy struggles of SR, as well as providing Power Harb off-hand options with Focus and Warhorn becoming much more attractive, which are currently rather dead due to their Life Siphon mechanic massively underperforming.

Likewise, cHarb could have been much more focused around Poison, and been synergising with Death Magic, with some buffs to Putrid Defense, as well as the finally upcoming change to Deadly Strength also granting Condition Damage (and ideally changing DM to grant percentage based DR, rather than Toughness). 

I personally find the lack of creativity on Anet's part in that regard fairly disappointing, where we end up just slotting different Elite Specs into the otherwise pretty much exact same cookie cutter Power or Condi  build. 

I kind of understand what you mean , soul reaping is a must in every necro playstyle in pve , before alac came up for nec. you could see sometimes scourges with malediction , blood magic and scourge traitline for an offensiv rezbot , now with alac the management of life force is such a pilar mechanic that soul reaping is literally the way to go for every build , also the traits are really good , you have more damage , + cc , healing , cd reduction , condition , that traitline has it all.

You have a fairly good point but i can't imagine anet reworking other traitline so hard you would take off soul reaping.

[Ariurotl.3718]

The real problem with Soul Battery is that it's a minor trait, one you have to take if you want to run SR. It's absolutely fine to have major traits that are dead with your build/spec (and there's a ton of them already) because you can just pick one of the other two, one that actually does something. Not the case here and it has to be fixed. Minor traits absolutely should add something to any build running the traitline.

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

1 hour ago, Ariurotl.3718 said:

The real problem with Soul Battery is that it's a minor trait, one you have to take if you want to run SR. It's absolutely fine to have major traits that are dead with your build/spec (and there's a ton of them already) because you can just pick one of the other two, one that actually does something. Not the case here and it has to be fixed. Minor traits absolutely should add something to any build running the traitline.

Any core traits should work with elite specs in some fashion. But unfortunately it's all an after thought, as core traits get reworked for new stuff coming out and don't factor in all specs.

Also core specs should be more usable. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by porkchopMCgee.6193

[Ariurotl.3718]

30 minutes ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

Any core traits should work with elite specs in some fashion. But unfortunately it's all an after thought, as core traits get reworked for new stuff coming out and don't factor in all specs.

Also core specs should be more usable. 

Yes but I'm just saying that there will always be major traits that would be useless with your build. For instance, if you don't run any Corruption skills, the Master of Corruption trait is useless to you but it doesn't mean that the trait needs to be changed, you just don't pick it.

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

26 minutes ago, Ariurotl.3718 said:

Yes but I'm just saying that there will always be major traits that would be useless with your build. For instance, if you don't run any Corruption skills, the Master of Corruption trait is useless to you but it doesn't mean that the trait needs to be changed, you just don't pick it.

Does anyone even use that trait?

[SeTect.5918]

33 minutes ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

Does anyone even use that trait?

every necro condi build for raids and fractals actually.
Well on paper its good if you have condi transfer, in reality the condis get cleansed by the healers most of the time before you can transfer them.
The -33% recharge is still kinda useful tho.

Edited November 27, 2023 by SeTect.5918

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

17 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

every necro condi build for raids and fractals actually.
Well on paper its good if you have condi transfer, in reality the condis get cleansed by the healers most of the time before you can transfer them.
The -33% recharge is still kinda useful tho.

Ah. Sounds like it's counter productive since healers cleanse em