WvW gameplay is worst than what dungeons running was...

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Got to point out that this started way back in early beta testing, when they first time let external players try the game and they got lost and didn't know what to do on the starter maps, because there was no NPC's with Exclamation marks over their heads. Which is the whole reason we got the "Hearts" system, as a replacement to try to guide players toward where events usually happened/started.

So yeah, we where so close to not having hearts at all in the game! (That would have been so glorious!)

Oh crap, I knew hearts sucked for good reason. xD

HoT was nice that you didn't have hearts. As anyone that's done a bit of map completion knows, hearts are such a ridiculous time sink. It does not help that some hearts have boundaries that are vague and whatever repetitious task sometimes doesn't respawn enough.

It should come to no surprise that I basically quit most of open world pve stuff when they reintroduced hearts in living story.... and to make matters worse they were like repeatable and reset your progress at reset so there was no saving it for later though I forget exactly how it changed or if that even applied.

Though to be fair, Core Tyria implemented the hearts okay. They were mostly in tutorial areas while endgame areas like Cursed Shore didn't have them since you should know your stuff by them. But then slapping them on new maps is just plain lazy.

1 hour ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

But yeah, players will be players. The vast majority will try to get as much as possible for as little effort as possible, always. Also, Champions in starter maps, old Queensdale Champion-Train. Good reasons they removed it, and leading right back to that, players will do whatever requires the least effort for the most reward. Humans are just programmed that way. The same includes Dungeons and Zergs in WvW unfortunately.

It's somewhat funny some people will call WvWers toxic when they will eat each other when someone kills a champion out of order. When I first heard of the drama I was like "really? You're going to be toxic over champion bags worth silvers?" I  mean gold was more valuable back then but that's still sad considering gold has diminishing returns in this game as once you finished gearing in ascended+ there are no costs beyond gearing more characters and most of the expensive stuff after is allv vanity anyways.

Recently, a guildmate had tagged up for the Marionette and someone told him to get off because "it was their lane, and they always do that lane."  Naturally that was just told off because, what? They don't own the place. What if someone else also always does this lane? And who really cares? This is farm content

The most pathetic was when you had to fail an event on purpose in Cursed Shore to get legendary skins. You had veterans clad in all kinds of glitter griefing new players that were just trying to play the game. They also threatened to farm them  in WvW (?? Sounds like content, nice!) and I am confident that was an empty threat.

When questioned on this, they then countered that their account value was worth more than everyone else here combined. Unfortunately they blocked me when I asked what it was so we never found out.

That being said, I still guess GW2 players are relatively well behaved compared to other games, thanks to game design mostly preventing player conflict. But some people are just crazy. xD

Edited November 30, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Kayowin.9217]

6 hours ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Boon duration and sharing needs a hard nerf or downstate needs to go. 

Why not both?   😄  

[Jobber.6348]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:23 PM, Daredevil.2745 said:

It requires a lot of skill to make a 50man zerg stay compact and move as one without a huge tail.

I want to frame this up on my wall so I can look at it for a quick chuckle. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[joneirikb.7506]

18 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Oh crap, I knew hearts sucked for good reason. xD

HoT was nice that you didn't have hearts. As anyone that's done a bit of map completion knows, hearts are such a ridiculous time sink. It does not help that some hearts have boundaries that are vague and whatever repetitious task sometimes doesn't respawn enough.

It should come to no surprise that I basically quit most of open world pve stuff when they reintroduced hearts in living story.... and to make matters worse they were like repeatable and reset your progress at reset so there was no saving it for later though I forget exactly how it changed or if that even applied.

Though to be fair, Core Tyria implemented the hearts okay. They were mostly in tutorial areas while endgame areas like Cursed Shore didn't have them since you should know your stuff by them. But then slapping them on new maps is just plain lazy.

It's somewhat funny some people will call WvWers toxic when they will eat each other when someone kills a champion out of order. When I first heard of the drama I was like "really? You're going to be toxic over champion bags worth silvers?" I  mean gold was more valuable back then but that's still sad considering gold has diminishing returns in this game as once you finished gearing in ascended+ there are no costs beyond gearing more characters and most of the expensive stuff after is allv vanity anyways.

Recently, a guildmate had tagged up for the Marionette and someone told him to get off because "it was their lane, and they always do that lane."  Naturally that was just told off because, what? They don't own the place. What if someone else also always does this lane? And who really cares? This is farm content

The most pathetic was when you had to fail an event on purpose in Cursed Shore to get legendary skins. You had veterans clad in all kinds of glitter griefing new players that were just trying to play the game. They also threatened to farm them  in WvW (?? Sounds like content, nice!) and I am confident that was an empty threat.

When questioned on this, they then countered that their account value was worth more than everyone else here combined. Unfortunately they blocked me when I asked what it was so we never found out.

That being said, I still guess GW2 players are relatively well behaved compared to other games, thanks to game design mostly preventing player conflict. But some people are just crazy. xD

HOT maps are still the best PVE in the game. And I haven't even gotten to the last one yet...

I think hearts works well on the starter maps, but they should have made less of them per tier of maps after that, so players got more and more used to finding content for themselves. Instead of just stuffing all the maps full of them, and just cut them off at Orr. But, it is what it is, they're not going to change any of that.

My enthusiasm for POF was already very low, but when they went all "Oh we put hearts back into the maps!" Instant deal breaker, no bueno. Barely touched the expansion at all, only really got it for the Warhippo.... ehr.... Battlecat.... the wvw hairball mount.

Queensdale Champion Train was all kinds of degenerate, it was actually more about the combination of rewards, you got good XP for it and it was used for leveling alts, in addition they where champions so you could get different drops from them in rather rapid order. I don't remember the specifics any longer.

But I miss it, some of the most fun I've ever had in Queensdale. Solo or duo kill champions out of order constantly to screw up their train. And watch them get their diapers all twisted and screeching high pitched noises. Good Old Times.

Quote

    That being said, I still guess GW2 players are relatively well behaved compared to other games, thanks to game design mostly preventing player conflict. But some people are just crazy. xD

I've called this the "ANet Care-Bear Rule", as they said in the manifesto "You should always be happy to see another player (on your team)". But I really can't say if I like it or not. It creates a very conflicting pull of interests in different modes. For PVE it works almost flawlessly, but that same rule is also the source of a lot of our problems in WvW.

That said, we're dealing with humans. They'll always find something to be salty/toxic about, and ways to express it. Like all those wonderful nice people that run around and place mesmer portals on top of chests in farm maps etc, to teleport PVE players trying to loot chests  into the air to fall down and die. Wasting Supply/Tactivators in WvW. Just sit in spawn and refuse to fight in PvP either to sabotage or just to hope to ride rewards. (Or run around and sabotage others Champion-Trains, just to sit and laugh at them screaming in map chat... *cough*)

So, it's nice that they're trying, and it creates a lower conflict environment on average than most of competing games.

Ehr, darn didn't mean to rant that much.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

I've called this the "ANet Care-Bear Rule", as they said in the manifesto "You should always be happy to see another player (on your team)". But I really can't say if I like it or not. It creates a very conflicting pull of interests in different modes. For PVE it works almost flawlessly, but that same rule is also the source of a lot of our problems in WvW.

I think it's necessary since it makes the game stand out, and also prevents a lot of headaches as anything that can be abused will be abused. I mean we've always had hammer trains and blobs and whatnot, but they deliberately made it so that healing power was an ineffective stat, and boon duration was supposed to be super niche.

I do think that it did encourage leeching, in that you can receive rewards without not knowing what you are doing.  We had support firebrands complaining that they were not getting that oh so valuable WvW "loot" (I use that term lightly since a lot of it is just clogging inventory space) even though they can just throw up reflects and afk. And there are many examples, but I'm sure another thread about GoB or legendary whatever will come up soon anyways.

 

Now granted the tagging loot system was bad and the current version is better, but I am sure a lot of those people complaining are still complaining because they are not pressing buttons to begin with. It is not an unusual occurance to join a semi-comped squad around my parts and give more stab to the party on a Willbender or even a Tempest because whatever the FB is doing, they're not running stab.

I'd also like to complain about all those kittens that lay there dead so it makes it harder to res downed players. But Anet could easily fix this by removing the ressurect full dead option in combat. (You can't res them anyways in combat!) but that's just the tip on the iceberg that they call a UI.

[joneirikb.7506]

3 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I think it's necessary since it makes the game stand out, and also prevents a lot of headaches as anything that can be abused will be abused. I mean we've always had hammer trains and blobs and whatnot, but they deliberately made it so that healing power was an ineffective stat, and boon duration was supposed to be super niche.

I do think that it did encourage leeching, in that you can receive rewards without not knowing what you are doing.  We had support firebrands complaining that they were not getting that oh so valuable WvW "loot" (I use that term lightly since a lot of it is just clogging inventory space) even though they can just throw up reflects and afk. And there are many examples, but I'm sure another thread about GoB or legendary whatever will come up soon anyways.

 

Now granted the tagging loot system was bad and the current version is better, but I am sure a lot of those people complaining are still complaining because they are not pressing buttons to begin with. It is not an unusual occurance to join a semi-comped squad around my parts and give more stab to the party on a Willbender or even a Tempest because whatever the FB is doing, they're not running stab.

I'd also like to complain about all those kittens that lay there dead so it makes it harder to res downed players. But Anet could easily fix this by removing the ressurect full dead option in combat. (You can't res them anyways in combat!) but that's just the tip on the iceberg that they call a UI.

Couple of thoughts on the Care-Bear-Rule:

* It makes PVE players completely blind to most conflict, and makes them all the more shocked and unprepared when they walk into a situation that has some (Orr trying to fail events, WvW/PvP, etc). The "Safe-Zone" effect actually makes the impact stronger when they actually experience conflict in the game. (Which can also explain a lot of how GW2 players are seen as crybabies)
* It removes most of the ways games typically try to encourage players to self-improve/become a better player. Because you can just get more players and mash head on keyboard to manage most content in the game. Outside of very specific things (spvp, roaming, dueling, Instanced content) you don't have to get better.
* This also means the combat/balance simply put is not allowed to punish players for outnumbering others. Aka one of the major problems with WvW balancing since the start.

But yeah, it's also one of the systems/glue that keeps WvW together and working. If we didn't have that rule, and actually had balance/systems that punished people more for not knowing what they do, and trying to overwhelm with numbers, then flat out, WvW would be empty.

* Aka, WvW has to remain casual to work, make it competitive and it fails/dies, as too many players would abandon it.
* But I wish they went slightly more in the direction of back at launch/first 2 years. It was just more enjoyable. To me at least.

I'd argue that the old decrepit Dungeons suffered from this because they where never meant to be very hard. The game at launch didn't really have any "hard" content in PVE (Annother reason we struggled with player skill). And it wasn't until Fractals got added, and the LS1+2 maps started ramping it up, and then into HOT. So people standing still in a spot and mashing skills in dungeons isn't really as bad a tell as the OP makes it sound, they're basically leveling content.

Similarly, WvW-Zergs are similarly considered to be casual content by the majority of players. So by that point there's nothing really wrong with it being "easy". Again, if all zerg gameplay required GvG level of skill, there wouldn't be zergs in WvW.

----

Loot in this game is just depressing.

[TheIceman.1039]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:12 AM, Arheundel.6451 said:

Literally, group of players stacking on top of each other , aoe spamming off cd, while moving step by step...all the while facetanking all sources of damage....what is this joke?

U can run havoc also, but problem is there no other havoc teams. 

[Famine.7915]

The boon meta will be around until the end of the game when they shut down the servers. Longest meta in the game's lifespan and no end in sight...

[Aeolus.3615]

6 hours ago, TheIceman.1039 said:

U can run havoc also, but problem is there no other havoc teams. 

it's 2023 boon balls  are the havoc  Anet ever dreamed.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

Sometimes it feels like a triumph if you can get a kill every 10 minutes, so your activity timer doesn't degrade.