An idea on how to reduce the effectiveness of boon ball

[ShadowStep.3640]

So I returned to GW2 a couple months back not having played since the initial release of HoT and reading over, and experiencing, the problem of boon ball I had an idea on maybe how to ease the pain without completely gutting anything or making radical changes. As to my knowledge boons themselves haven't been changed in terms of effectiveness much. Might has always granted its same numbers, Fury has always been a 20% boost, Swiftness etc etc. For me the problem is obviously boon duration and the excessive amount of boon application compared to ages past in this game. I don't believe increasing boon rips or boon corrupts is necessarily the answer as the sole thing to solve boon ball though there is a place for more of it. I think the problem is in boon duration. Its too easy to stack large amounts of boons endlessly. 

 

My proposal is that Anet implements a custom boon calculation for WvW when taking into account boon sharing so that if a player were to grant a boon, they would receive 100% of the duration as per the tooltip amount and taking into consideration boon duration BUT any other players receiving that same boon only receive 50% of the duration that the user received. So if I cast an ability that ends up granting me 10 seconds of swiftness and 5 seconds of protection and grants that effect to 5 other players those 5 players receive 5 seconds of swiftness and 2.5 seconds of protection. This should allow for ebb and flow of boon application reminiscent of the old need to stack empower or blast fields before a push but doesn't invalidate boon sharing builds nor nerf the actual user receiving the boons. 

Pros:

1. Keeps roamers untouched

2. Severely limits boon application in a blob

3. Boons are still powerful and supports still needed in zergs but boons aren't endless anymore. Still allows for strategic boon ball to exist but not be overwhelming.

4. Increases the power of existing boon rips and corrupts since boons become more "scarce"

Cons:

1. Supports may feel like they aren't as useful

2. Puts an even bigger emphasis on needing to stack Concentration to achieve previous boon duration levels

3. Low duration boons like Quickness and Alacrity would be negligible. (but could be excluded from the calculation taking into account their short duration).

 

Idk there may be others but this seems like low hanging fruit that could be easily implemented just to try (maybe) and easily reverted if it doesn't work. Anet already separates WvW and PVE balancing so its not unfamiliar to them. Lastly, It allows individual players to feel powerful (I still get the full effect of my own boons) while toning down the power of the sharing aspect that makes boon ball possible. 

If, consequently, it work but doesn't go far enough I think you can nerf the effectiveness of Concentration itself in WvW (make it less effective per point).

[XenesisII.1540]

There have been multiple suggestions to change concentration stat to be less effective in wvw.

Good luck convincing anet, they don't see boon spam as a problem, they currently see counters to it being the problem, the current system is working as intended by them.

[disForm.2837]

Careful what you wish for, if you nerf stability, any type of group fight from GvG to blobs will suffer. And we all know this is the main gameplay style in WvW. 

WvW is not precisely flourishing these days, so the nerf would have to be on point. Enough so FB, Chronos can't sleep during the run but not too much it affects actual play.

[joneirikb.7506]

Relic/Sigil/Etc with +X% damage per boon the target has. "Situational" Counterplay/Disadvantage.

[kash.9213]

4 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

Careful what you wish for, if you nerf stability, any type of group fight from GvG to blobs will suffer. And we all know this is the main gameplay style in WvW. 

WvW is not precisely flourishing these days, so the nerf would have to be on point. Enough so FB, Chronos can't sleep during the run but not too much it affects actual play.

At some point combat and especially boon application needs to turn to being more deliberate clutch decisions and not just an endurance test to see who slips up with their group comp rotations first. If people and guilds have to learn how to move as a team and set up more dynamic plays and positioning when they don't have a virtual force field around them, it might be worth a temporary bleakness in game to make it healthier in the long run and to make balancing less convoluted and piled on. 

[Yolaus Kriff.3465]

Boon ball is fine. Its fun for the majority of wvwers, and roamers were never meant to fight against it. Boon balls fight other boon balls. Roamers fight other roamers. Get used to it.

Nerf stealth, willbender roaming, harbinger roaming, celestial eles, mesmer, and especially thief. Last few expansions have utterly ruined roaming by making 2 or 3 builds ridiculous.

[XenesisII.1540]

Right, sure.

Except for the fact that boon ballers run from boon ballers to farm pugs, often times a boon ball will leave a map because the other boon ball is bigger or better, so no, it's not fine, and no they don't just fight each other, it would actually be fine if they did.

Boon balls have utterly ruined zerg fights that now rely on bigger numbers, meta support spam, and ruined all the tools to use against them.

You don't get to complain about roaming when you think boon spam is fine, since that's a huge part in why roaming is kitten these days too.

[Nanogrid.7283]

Since its Xmas, can we have more boon-rip nerfs, please?

Make those dirty random pugs pay dearly for their transgressions against organized groups on voice comms. Because being a boonball and facerolling your keyboard while outhealing afk on a decillion aoe and single target skills is clearly too hard for the common Dryopithecus.

Also, while at it, please make handrezzing inside a boonball instant, as we need to think about the ones watching Sesame Street and Teletubies on their first screen, while "playing?" WvW on their second screen located 180 degrees and 2 meters away in the opposite direction across their kitten room.

Let's just keep removing diversity from WvW by removing small scale, solo play and randoms. Make those shameless solos migrate to other games by removing every chance they have in OCCASIONALLY DOWN STATING a boonballer, because thats all you get, you wont ever be able to finish anyone anyway! Heck I would go even further and just kick every player in WvW that isn't in a squad and following a commander within a 4 meter radius. Everyone else outside the 4 meter radius would just be insta kicked from WvW, since they clearly not worthy enough to be part of the boonballer holy inquisition.

Look, this has better gameplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI2sCZAwIHY&t

I go play commodore 64 and Amiga, bye nerds!

Edited December 1, 2023 by Nanogrid.7283

[GIMSE.3095]

On 12/1/2023 at 8:12 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

Except for the fact that boon ballers run from boon ballers to farm pugs

Are you aware that the servers that farm the most pugs (Mag, FoW, WSR) cloud instead of boonball? 

Edited December 5, 2023 by GIMSE.3095

[XenesisII.1540]

6 minutes ago, GIMSE.3095 said:

Are you aware that the servers that farm the most pugs (Mag, FoW, WSR) cloud instead of boonball? I seriously don't get why you don't just queue 5v5 if you dislike large scale fights so much. 

Mag pugs farms pugs because boon balls get tired of them.

So what's the problem there?

BTW I don't have a problem with large scale fighting, I have a problem with groups that go around killing maps because they're too afraid to face other boon balls. Why don't you guys go gvg in an arena every day, oh right wait, because y'all scared of dying to each other so much.

Game is so lopsided to running 50 deep boon balls, boon spam heal spam cleanse spam res spam, strips nerfed every patch, hey guys why don't you go to spvp and let us 11111 on pugs in peace.

Edited December 2, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[GIMSE.3095]

Just now, XenesisII.1540 said:

Mag farms pugs because boon balls get tired of them.

So what's the problem there?

Yes, that's literally the point. People who play in boonballs are looking for proper fights, not kills, which is exactly why they get tired of servers like Mag.
I play on 5 different servers, and as soon as there are no other boonballs left to fight, guess what happens? people log off, cause bullying pugs is not fun for anyone who enjoys organized zerging.

[XenesisII.1540]

5 hours ago, GIMSE.3095 said:

Yes, that's literally the point. People who play in boonballs are looking for proper fights, not kills, which is exactly why they get tired of servers like Mag.
I play on 5 different servers, and as soon as there are no other boonballs left to fight, guess what happens? people log off, cause bullying pugs is not fun for anyone who enjoys organized zerging.

Yeah that applies for like 1 out of every 10 boon balls.

I've seen groups camp out empty maps for hours chasing pugs.

I've seen groups leave maps after 1 boon ball vs boon ball fight.

Go to desert south if you really want to fight each other.

So I dunno who you're trying to fool here, there's multiple places for boon groups to meet up and fight and they don't.

Edited December 2, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[GIMSE.3095]

On 12/2/2023 at 2:00 AM, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah that applies for like 1 out of every 10 boon balls.

I've seen groups camp out empty maps for hours chasing pugs.

I've seen groups leave maps after 1 fight.

Go to desert south if you really want to fight each other.

So I dunno who you're trying to fool here, there's multiple places for boon groups to meet up and fight and they don't.

Are you sure you're not confusing boonballing with clouding right now? 
Okay, so essentially your problem here is that 50 people are sitting on discord screaming at each other, coordinating all their support, to chase down a few people around an entire map?...

In what aspect would this even be considered unfair? That would mean a single thief could kite around 50 players

Either way, we have different experiences, but based on stats boonballing is objectively not an effective way to farm kills or win matchups.
 

Edited December 3, 2023 by GIMSE.3095

[SweetPotato.7456]

Bring a better squad.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 minute ago, GIMSE.3095 said:

Are you sure you're not confusing boonballing with clouding right now? 
Okay, so essentially your problem here is that 50 people are sitting on discord screaming at each other, coordinating all their support, to chase down a few people around an entire map?...

In what aspect would this even be considered unfair? That would mean a single thief could kite around 50 players 😂
 

Get off your alt account.

There's boon balls "guilds" running 30-50 that will cap an entire map, then run back to defend a tower being recapped by 5 people. Are they really looking for fights with equal numbers?

I have no problem with boon balls fighting boon balls, I have no problem with pugs fighting pugs, I have no problem with 50 pugs fighting 50 pugs mixed with a guild.

I have a problem with boon balls that obviously avoid other boon balls. I have a problem with boon balls that chase down pugs because it's easy.

Lastly I have a problem with anet nerfing my playstyle, and constantly more bonuses to benefit boon balls.

Get off my lawn.

[GIMSE.3095]

2 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Get off your alt account.

There's boon balls "guilds" running 30-50 that will cap an entire map, then run back to defend a tower being recapped by 5 people. Are they really looking for fights with equal numbers?

I have no problem with boon balls fighting boon balls, I have no problem with pugs fighting pugs, I have no problem with 50 pugs fighting 50 pugs mixed with a guild.

I have a problem with boon balls that obviously avoid other boon balls. I have a problem with boon balls that chase down pugs because it's easy.

Lastly I have a problem with anet nerfing my playstyle, and constantly more bonuses to benefit boon balls.

Get off my lawn.

Capturing a map with 50 people is extremely ineffective, splitting up into groups of 10 would be at least 3x faster.

Assuming 50 people wanted to actually do that, 5 people could split up into groups of 2 and 3, and from that alone split the boonball in half.
Your complaints don't make any sense. 
This is like me complaining that 200 people used 111 on me at once, and then asking anet to nerf 1111. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by GIMSE.3095

[ShadowStep.3640]

Homies I have nothing against boon balls, but when everyone has perma booms it takes a lot of enjoyment of making tactical decisions or outplaying the enemy group. Positioning, organized bombs etc. are all good for the large scale fights and boon ball is preferable, imo, to other metas but all it really needs is some spice. 

[GIMSE.3095]

On 12/2/2023 at 3:13 AM, ShadowStep.3640 said:

Homies I have nothing against boon balls, but when everyone has perma booms it takes a lot of enjoyment of making tactical decisions or outplaying the enemy group. Positioning, organized bombs etc. are all good for the large scale fights and boon ball is preferable, imo, to other metas but all it really needs is some spice. 

deleted

Edited December 3, 2023 by GIMSE.3095

[Famine.7915]

They keep nerfing anti boon and corruption. So I guess just appeal to Anet and hope?...

[bluberblasen.9684]

If you remove boons, every thief can kill every roamer in seconds

First remove thief class ( stealth + insane mobility + willbender mobility)

Next step reduce every boon duration

= problem fixed

[Famine.7915]

11 minutes ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

If you remove boons, every thief can kill every roamer in seconds

First remove thief class ( stealth + insane mobility + willbender mobility)

Next step reduce every boon duration

= problem fixed

Nah. Just learn to fight thieves. Plus point is not to remove all boons, point it to remove permanent max boons.

[Auragen.4162]

12 hours ago, GIMSE.3095 said:

I mean no offense but your post is titled about reducing the effectiveness of boonball despite the fact that it's neither effective for PPT nor PPK

You can keep telling yourself that but it is literally the most efficient way to play the game lol. Turns out overpowering and outnumbering everyone else with nonstop heal, boon, and barrier spam is more OP than not overpowering and outnumbering everyone else with nonstop heal, boon, and barrier spam. Not being able to die unless you meet a bigger group doing the same broken kitten you're doing sounds PRETTY EFFICIENT for PPT and PPK.

Quote

Capturing a map with 50 people is extremely ineffective, splitting up into groups of 10 would be at least 3x faster.

Uh, no, each group of 10 would get called out and lose to the one map boonball running around faster than Dash thieves thanks to mounts. Have you ever played WVW outside of a squad lmao?

Edited December 2, 2023 by Auragen.4162

[Leger.3724]

This thread just shows why this game's wvw is in terminal decline and structured pvp was dead on arrival.

"Just learn to fight a thief". "Just learn to fight a ranger. "WILLBENDER OP BECAUSE IT BEATS MY CATALYST SPEC 1v1".

Arena Net should flat out never listen to the playerbase that plays sPvP or WvW. Ignore them. Never listen to them. Never offer them a survey. 

If the goal is to get people playing you don't listen to the Bronze V pubstars who memorized a rotation, put on the right buffs and armor about what they dislike. You figure out why people leave. And it's not usually because of boonballs. It's because they lose every fight trying to get to a zerg or do anything. They 100-25% a Diamond thief? That thief runs away and they've wasted their time. The thief kills them is the alternative. 

Also for all the whining about boon uptime in boonball there are many solo specs that have absurd, absurd, absurd kittening uptimes solo. Notice no complaining there. That's fine. That's good. It's willbender alone that's the problem. The only thing boonball shows is the complete lack of skill and ability this game offers to players. You're right. Boonball is a mindless kitten show. And so is your memorized 1v1 rotation. You're not better, lmao.

This entire forum is a joke and if Arena Net is listening to anything anyone says here, the last few years of WvW are in sight.

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Leger.3724

[XenesisII.1540]

4 minutes ago, Leger.3724 said:

This thread just shows why this game's wvw is in terminal decline and structured pvp was dead on arrival.

"Just learn to fight a thief". "Just learn to fight a ranger. "WILLBENDER OP BECAUSE IT BEATS MY CATALYST SPEC 1v1".

Arena Net should flat out never listen to the playerbase that plays sPvP or WvW. Ignore them. Never listen to them. Never offer them a survey. 

If the goal is to get people playing you don't listen to the Bronze V pubstars who memorized a rotation, put on the right buffs and armor about what they dislike. You figure out why people leave. And it's not usually because of boonballs. It's because they lose every fight trying to get to a zerg or do anything. They 100-25% a Diamond thief? That thief runs away and they've wasted their time. The thief kills them is the alternative. 

Also for all the whining about boon uptime in boonball there are many solo specs that have absurd, absurd, absurd kittening uptimes solo. Notice no complaining there. That's fine. That's good. It's willbender alone that's the problem. The only thing boonball shows is the complete lack of skill and ability this game offers to players. You're right. Boonball is a mindless kitten show. And so is your memorized 1v1 rotation. You're not better, lmao.

This entire forum is a joke and if Arena Net is listening to anything anyone says here, the last few years of WvW are in sight.

Heh jokes on you, they've already been ignoring this section since 2018.

This certainly isn't the section they take balance advice from when most of the posts are to nerf boon balls and stop nerfing strips, yet boon balls continue to get buffed and strips continue to get nerfed. It's the pve section they're catering to, you know the one that does their rotation on a golem and then complains about professions doing more damage than the other, the one they're trying to spread all boons including alacrity and quickness to all classes so that everyone including pugs have it 100% on their raids/strikes. So don't worry your Willbender is safe.

[GIMSE.3095]

On 12/2/2023 at 3:37 PM, Auragen.4162 said:

each group of 10 would get called out and lose to the one map boonball running around faster than Dash thieves thanks to mounts.

That's not physically possible

Edited December 3, 2023 by GIMSE.3095