Should they rework mechanist due to excessive issues.

[Stalima.5490]

So it's no secret that there are... issues... with the mechanist so here is a quick poll question for an alternative.

[Zzik.5873]

I rather they bring back the release version of mechanist with nerfed number than the abomination we have now... Also bring back the 3x burst auto on rifle, and bring back the golem... Also shortbow lol, I dont need to say more...

[Sobx.1758]

No, but fix the bugs and enable mech underwater, even if in some alternative form.

 

1 hour ago, Zzik.5873 said:

Also bring back the 3x burst auto on rifle

No, that ridiculous abomination of a "just press 1" machine gun should have never been in the game in the first place.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Gendalfs.7521]

3 hours ago, Zzik.5873 said:

I rather they bring back the release version of mechanist with nerfed number than the abomination we have now

Agree. 

Power rifle dps is a joke now. Imagine I tried DRM solo for dundeon achievement and on the last boss dmg is just not there. So I logged in my Firewizzard Tempest and cleared all with ease. 

And have you seen thief video. Just tanking all boss damage aaaaand spaming just button 3. Its ridiculous.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Gendalfs.7521
Added info

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Agree. 

Power rifle dps is a joke now. Imagine I tried DRM solo for dundeon achievement and on the last boss dmg is just not there. So I logged in my Firewizzard Tempest and cleared all with ease. 

And have you seen thief video. Just tanking all boss damage aaaaand spaming just button 3. Its ridiculous.

If you had a problem to complete drms with rifle, it really -surprisingly enough- looks like a player issue.

[Infinity.2876]

come on I want to be RP D.va

non of this afk farming nonsense

[Corvolupo.5708]

Underwater Mech, bug fix here and there = GOLDEN.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Mechanist should get some fixes but Anet and rework for engineer means nerfing and killing the reworked stuff so yeah... It should get a proper rework made by a proper team

[Zzik.5873]

1 minute ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Mechanist should get some fixes but Anet and rework for engineer means nerfing and killing the reworked stuff so yeah... It should get a proper rework made by a proper team

Sadly your right... They tend to remove every flavor and fun interaction when they rewoek something... And it always end up in something lackluster and boring...

[Stalima.5490]

The problem is that the current form of the mechanist completely erases what it means to be an engineer, the toolbelt, because of this the mechanist in it's current for would be a better fit on the ranger and not the engineer and it has become very clear that they can't balance the mech properly due to the fact the proffesion as a whole was not intended to use a permanent pet so bug fixes alone would just cause additional problems to arise, thus why it keeps getting nerfed.

Because it is so unbalanceable they should simply make it a more balancable spec via minions and not the permanent pet as this would allow the engineer to once again use it's toolbelt as it should be able to.

Furthermore, the mechanist also has effectively LOCKED utility slots such as it's elite and shift signet which is not a healthy design at all, there is more than enough types of jade mech that it would be possible to make it into a multi-minion focused spec thus fixing the most problematic points.

[Atmaweapon.7345]

How often would you actually get to use Shift Signet if there wasn't effectively a damage component to it? Would you let Mechanist have equal damage to Holo if they could take another damage utility? Also, C.Alac Mech doesn't use Shift Signet so when enough damage is on the Engineer instead of the Mech, then Shift Signet isn't the end all for Mechanist's dps output.

As for the Elite, you could argue the same for Holo. Core Engi elites are so bad that every spec would take Prime Light Beam even without the exceed effect for PvE if they could.

 

Mech keeps getting nerfed because people simultaneously like playing easy, low intensity specs and hate looking at ugly green blocks. Mech damage wasn't ever top tier, people just absolutely hated looking at swarms of ugly green mechs so they just latched onto literally any reason to nerf Mech so that it would be played less.

[miriforst.1290]

I am no fan of mechanist in the first place (the pet idea would never work out in this game). But it is a million times better than turrets but legs. I have little confidence such a spec wouldn't just be a moving junkpile spec with ineffektive trash serving only as a distraction in pve and a targeting annoyance in pvp while abandoning the little customization and control we got. It works for necromancer because they get lifeforce when they die (i also think the little ugly gremlin aspect works better for them). Let them keep them.

We are rather unique in having had 3 iterations of AI minions. First turrets which are rusting at the bottom of the sea (fix or replace them before even thinking about more "minions"). Then gyros which filled the minion niche the turrets didn't (mobile and expendable minions) with admittedly limited offensive use (blast, shredder). They were your typical X but using a robot archetype. Healing but robot, condicleanse but robot, stealth but robot, damage but robot, etc. It didn't work, they were made into wells and scrapper then gained considerable popularity over previously. Honestly I was still playing scrapper with the old minions and found the bulwark, blast and sneak gyro to be okay if clunky. But i understand why they were removed. Then we have mechanist which offers a single strong pet customized into 9 variants. Which I personally find more interesting than summoning 3 clockwork dolls that die after 3 attacks or something. Sure it's a pve only spec but at least it does something. It has big artillery vibes, it's tanky enough to take a hit and we have some degree of control.

Truth be told while i expected mechanist to fall flat on its face in all gamemodes, I was surprised when we saw how strong it was in pve. Perhaps excessively so.

Reworking mechanist into a minion spec to me feels like just patching back the old scrapper. Its a roleplay idea, but technically we still got gyros for that purpose (they are just a visual effect and not yet another healthbar).

If there is anything I would like to rework on mech it would be to replace signets with something more interesting. Some of them such as overclock or shift signet have new mechanics or some form of spectacle. But the idea of introducing the passive skill type to a spec built around powerful pets makes my skin crawl. I had a bad feeling they would combine those because of all the demands for signets (for some reason?) and minions. Luckily the pet ended up singular rather than diluted into minipets with healthbars.

Edited December 9, 2023 by miriforst.1290

[Alcatraznc.3869]

15 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Because it is so unbalanceable they should simply make it a more balancable spec via minions and not the permanent pet as this would allow the engineer to once again use it's toolbelt as it should be able to.

 

Then the mechanist branch will need to buff the Engineer as well then because there is no way I am playing a spec that trades an entire tree for a temporary minion.

Also what Anet should have done is giving back the toolbelt skill to the Mechanist when its pet is off field. Like how such a small concept is hard to grasp ? And before someone talks about balance, Anet removed spec trades off from everyone....Everyone except Engineer and Mechanist. This is just asking what we should have gotten several months ago

[Sobx.1758]

34 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Also what Anet should have done is giving back the toolbelt skill to the Mechanist when its pet is off field. Like how such a small concept is hard to grasp ? And before someone talks about balance, Anet removed spec trades off from everyone....Everyone except Engineer and Mechanist. This is just asking what we should have gotten several months ago

Next time you talk about "what anet did and why", make sure you read the whole message they wrote, because you're taking this part out of context to fit whatever you want it to fit ("buff me"). Anet did not "remove trade offs from everyone except engineer and mechanist".

Edited December 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Alcatraznc.3869]

41 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Next time you talk about "what anet did and why", make sure you read the whole message they wrote, because you're taking this part out of context to fit whatever you want it to fit ("buff me"). Anet did not "remove trade offs from everyone except engineer and mechanist".

 

Yeah sure, Mirage getting back its 2 dodges, Chronomancer getting back its F5, Vindicator getting back its 2 dodges, Druid pet penalty removed, all of these small changes are definitely not trades off that has been removed. 

 

Next time you comment makes sure to read properly what the person is saying and make some research as well 

[Atmaweapon.7345]

The problem with removing tradeoffs from Engineer elites is that they don't have the manpower to come up with 2/3 unique toolbelt elite skills (because Detection pulse was moved over to Utility Goggles.) They even had to resort to stealing other profressions' aesthetics for Engineer's new weapon... again. /s

Now that I think about it, you could theoretically have "non-toolbelt" utilities if it's a balance hassle, but that would be kind of weird.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Atmaweapon.7345

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Yeah sure, Mirage getting back its 2 dodges, Chronomancer getting back its F5, Vindicator getting back its 2 dodges, Druid pet penalty removed, all of these small changes are definitely not trades off that has been removed. 

 

Next time you comment makes sure to read properly what the person is saying and make some research as well 

Again, make sure you read what they actually said as a whole, because they clearly didn't say what you're claiming they did. You're taking part of their message and use it to fit whatever you want.

Spoiler alert: you listing someone getting back something doesn't change what I (or anet in their post) said because at no point I tried to claim nobody got anything back. Just go re-read what they wrote and stop repeating what you made up instead.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sindust.7059]

1. Remove the Mechanical Genius kitten.

2. Make mech work under water.

3. Fix signets so that they use the "no mech" version when the mech just died or was just dismissed and is already flying into orbit.

4. Buff rifle mech damage to a level that matches the new powercrept standard. 33k benchmark on a pure DPS in the current state of the game is an insult. I'm literally doing more DPS playing condi builds on power bosses in fractals.

5. Give us toolbelt skills when mech is dismissed.

In that order.

[zaced.7948]

i wonder why people still discuss topics like this. you know very well that nothing will happen. engineer as the least played class has always been a blurry afterthought on anets radar (except when real and proper players, guardian and mesmer mains complain about something, then the nerfs are fast and violent) and nothing will be ever done to address these issues. there is no point debating what could be done because nothing ever will be done. it's like talking about what we're gonna do the day cows learn to fly.

save yourself the trouble, just give up. engi was the brainchild of a madman wanting to do something fun and then it had to be made into something that can keep up with the rest without being completely insane and completely broken. that would have taken work so anet just simplified and cut away until we arrive at this husk of a class it is today. accept that and move on. if playing engineer doesn't give you joy because anet violently raped this class, either play another one (anet loves guardian, play guardian and you will be loved) or quit the game, there are other classes and other games. don't waste your time on dreaming about a world where anet cares about engineer. they won't. they never have.

[Zzik.5873]

3 hours ago, zaced.7948 said:

i wonder why people still discuss topics like this. you know very well that nothing will happen. engineer as the least played class has always been a blurry afterthought on anets radar (except when real and proper players, guardian and mesmer mains complain about something, then the nerfs are fast and violent) and nothing will be ever done to address these issues. there is no point debating what could be done because nothing ever will be done. it's like talking about what we're gonna do the day cows learn to fly.

save yourself the trouble, just give up. engi was the brainchild of a madman wanting to do something fun and then it had to be made into something that can keep up with the rest without being completely insane and completely broken. that would have taken work so anet just simplified and cut away until we arrive at this husk of a class it is today. accept that and move on. if playing engineer doesn't give you joy because anet violently raped this class, either play another one (anet loves guardian, play guardian and you will be loved) or quit the game, there are other classes and other games. don't waste your time on dreaming about a world where anet cares about engineer. they won't. they never have.

Sad but true... Anet butcher mechanist, butcher rifle auto and now shortbow is just a meme... And they remove the golem... Not engi specific but thats still lame...

[Artemis.8034]

They created the problems with mech in the first place, they can reverse the damage they did! They ruined it!

[Artemis.8034]

On 12/9/2023 at 12:36 AM, Stalima.5490 said:

The problem is that the current form of the mechanist completely erases what it means to be an engineer, the toolbelt, because of this the mechanist in it's current for would be a better fit on the ranger and not the engineer and it has become very clear that they can't balance the mech properly due to the fact the proffesion as a whole was not intended to use a permanent pet so bug fixes alone would just cause additional problems to arise, thus why it keeps getting nerfed.

Because it is so unbalanceable they should simply make it a more balancable spec via minions and not the permanent pet as this would allow the engineer to once again use it's toolbelt as it should be able to.

Furthermore, the mechanist also has effectively LOCKED utility slots such as it's elite and shift signet which is not a healthy design at all, there is more than enough types of jade mech that it would be possible to make it into a multi-minion focused spec thus fixing the most problematic points.

I disagree all this stuck on the toolbelt mentality is the problem! Toolbelt mentality is whats killing engi! You want the profession to live or die on the toolbelt, Mech is a new spec with new mechanics. The problem with mech is anet butchered it! The point is mechs came from the EoD expansion, that was all about jade tech and robots so it fits them for what it is. The pet part you really lost me on, they can add pets to any class it has nothing to do with class and everything to do with making the AI work. All minion /pet classes have to be balanced the same way, you have a pet that does certain damage and certain abilities a necro  a ranger a mech, there is nothing that makes it impossible to balance. Anet is just bad at AI mechanics.  If you want to play petless and toolbelt that already exist, why destroy a spec the rest of us enjoy when you already have what you want. The problem isnt mech, its anet, and how they dump all over engi period!

[Zzik.5873]

3 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

I disagree all this stuck on the toolbelt mentality is the problem! Toolbelt mentality is whats killing engi! You want the profession to live or die on the toolbelt, Mech is a new spec with new mechanics. The problem with mech is anet butchered it! The point is mechs came from the EoD expansion, that was all about jade tech and robots so it fits them for what it is. The pet part you really lost me on, they can add pets to any class it has nothing to do with class and everything to do with making the AI work. All minion /pet classes have to be balanced the same way, you have a pet that does certain damage and certain abilities a necro  a ranger a mech, there is nothing that makes it impossible to balance. Anet is just bad at AI mechanics.  If you want to play petless and toolbelt that already exist, why destroy a spec the rest of us enjoy when you already have what you want. The problem isnt mech, its anet, and how they dump all over engi period!

Eod release mech wad really cool! (It was op but they could have just nerf the number, no need to butchered the mechanic). Rifle qas even hit in the crossfire...

[Kuma.1503]

Definitely needs a rework, but not like Minion necro.

The power build is intentionally kept below supports in performance because of how it's designed. 

Needs to have a higher skill floor so the reward can be brought up. 

Also underwater and med kit need to be looked at on mech.

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Dadnir.5038]

Mechanist can't work like minion necromancer for the simple reason that for necromancer minions are utility skill while for mechanist the mech is it's spec's main mechanism (F keys). Moreover, turret engineer and the early version of scrapper are/were close to what a minion mecromancer is and it is/was poorly received by the community.

In anyway, "minion" specs are bound to be heavily criticized by the community. Mechanist suffering criticism leading to various nerfs was something that everybody should have anticipated from the very moment the devs shocased the spec. I mean, it's not like ranger hasn't been criticized and nerfed for it's pet since 2012, right?

That said, it's already great that mechanist's golem somehow manage to be tolerated despite being somewhat more useful than a ranger pet. I do think that one should already be happy with the statu quo.