Team Balance

[Maxwell.8564]

I honestly don't have a suggestion, more of a plea:  please do something to better balance teams. ❤️ There are too many runaway games where the score ends up being 500 to < 100. 

I enjoy this game, but matches like that are certainly frustrating. 

Thank you! ❤️ 

[JosephKatz.9375]

They need a role selector when queuing for ranked just like Overwatch. Tank can be equivalent to support due to lack of players. But there should never be 5 side noders or 3 healers on one team. Let us pick roles! Also, get rid of duos in ranked and lock classes on load in so now more counter speccing. Force people to play the class they que on.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Won't happen without a population increase or removal of duo Q.

As right now, Duo Q is out of control with the smurfing--and the smurfing isn't to randomly carry some low ELO player either---from investigating it sounds like people are actively paying for it to happen.  Not speculation either, got a few confirmations after asking various low AP accounts in whisper--they basically told me they throw and smurf other accounts for gold.

This is also why Top 250 is literally at 1405 right now, when even earlier in the year it was 1500+ at minimum.  If I played up to the 1490 it took to get my Dame title back in Jan/Feb I'd literally be top 100--back then, would have had to be at least 1560+.  You see a drop because less real people play, more alts--so leaderboards get messed up as someone doesn't need 2-3 alts on the board and/or is doing as I said above and leaving them low to get into gold / silver games.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 minutes ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

They need a role selector when queuing for ranked just like Overwatch. 

Since they have long blown up 'roles' (Purity of Purpose) with 'everyone can do everything', wouldn't be able to do a straight role selector--as for instance, how do you choose say core guard, support druid, support tempest, scourge, or specter as 'support'? 

Was thinking class selector, so you could only have one per team, but unsure if population supports that.  Then lock down the class switching, so you have to basically choose a role within the class you Q'd as.  Race conditions could be taken care of by either volunteer opt out within a timer (with maybe some bonus for the person who yields), or after higher ELO wins.  

But, class selector even would be hard as not everyone has one of each.  Would be different if it was like Overwatch where they are canned chars, but here you use your own.  They'd almost have to create canned chars like TF2/Overwatch and then implement class selection--each canned char would have all specs available, and you could customize loadout.  

But, that's an entirely new game I think 😂.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

They need a role selector...

Is there even roles in this game?

Beyond that, the sPvP community don't quite like facing "tanky" builds, often find "supports" unsightly and profundly despise anything that rely on conditions.

And if it wasn't enough, the sPvP population is thin leading to relatively long waiting time between matchs. If you force a "role selector" on top of that, there is a probability to increase even further waiting time in between match. Too much waiting time lead to bored players which lead to less population in sPvP which lead to more complaints in this subforum that's already drowning in complaints.

[Arheundel.6451]

6 hours ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

They need a role selector when queuing for ranked just like Overwatch. Tank can be equivalent to support due to lack of players. But there should never be 5 side noders or 3 healers on one team. Let us pick roles! Also, get rid of duos in ranked and lock classes on load in so now more counter speccing. Force people to play the class they que on.

Remove stealth....cut down on mobility including teleports.....reduce CC and introduce low return on both CC and conditions, to finally add brain into gw2 gameplay. Do all that and then we can start talking

[DoomNexus.5324]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Since they have long blown up 'roles' (Purity of Purpose) with 'everyone can do everything', wouldn't be able to do a straight role selector--as for instance, how do you choose say core guard, support druid, support tempest, scourge, or specter as 'support'?

I they could at the very least double check the role with an amulet. Wouldn't make sense to queue as a support with a Zerker amulet for example.

 

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Is there even roles in this game?

(...)

And if it wasn't enough, the sPvP population is thin leading to relatively long waiting time between matchs. If you force a "role selector" on top of that, there is a probability to increase even further waiting time in between match. Too much waiting time lead to bored players which lead to less population in sPvP which lead to more complaints in this subforum that's already drowning in complaints.

Yes, but differently to for example WoW. You don't just have dps, tank and healer but rather for example roamer, bruiser, side-noder, ... and support.

Idk, I think the argument against any improvements for the sake of "keep queue times short" has been made for way too long. In 2018 I started to get really active in sPvP and ever since people made this point. But I think this has ultimately lead to the downfall of gw2 sPvP, actually.
The fear to be innovative or give players a better time because they may need to wait a bit longer was ultimately the cause for stagnation and declining population in my opinion, which triggered a downward spiral, making flaws in the system ever more noticable and relevant. Like duo-Q for example - I think duoQ is not an issue by itself but having nobody to queue anyone up with and having 2 plat 3 players in the enemy team in an otherwise gold 2 match is bs.

Many suggestions have been drowned over the years with this argument, such as a (separate) full team queue in ranked, 2v2/3v3 queue being available at all times, more modes in general (we used to have 10v10), etc.
I think having more options and more modes would ultimately not have resulted in a spread out population but rather there are plenty of players who just don't like Conquest and have always asked for TDM-style modes, so I'm convinced the overall population would've increased, not been spread out, since those queues don't really interfere with each other and would allow players to also have some variety and join the other queues from time to time. But yea, the fear of longer wait times has certainly played a huge part of where we are now in my opinion.

But.. I think sPvP is too far gone now anyway. Its reputation is inevitably damaged, GW2's as a whole probably still*. There are a ton of players who are just not interested anymore and have quit for good. Plus, Anet stopped giving a kitten about sPvP years go too, so the chances any attempt to resurrect the game mode will be made are virtually non-existent.

* Anet left a lot of people disappointed when they introduced ascended gear for example, despite making promises to never increase the power level. This was all the way back in 2013 but there are plenty of players who still don't trust Anet/GW2 because of such occurrences or with the directions it took with content creation for example (living story etc). And I don't blame anybody for not staying up-to-date with a game they aren't interested in.

Edited December 26, 2023 by DoomNexus.5324

[Dadnir.5038]

48 minutes ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Anet left a lot of people disappointed when they introduced ascended gear for example, despite making promises to never increase the power level.

But ascended gear have nothing to do with sPvP right?

The devs have made countless "promises" they didn't seem to have respected anyway and they will most likely continue. 😉

The true issue with "roles" is that taking on a role barely penalise the character. Most, if not all, amulets available are "offensive" in nature, effectively making everyone a "dps". There is almost no penalty for chosing a support role (and it's especially true is sPvP) which end up making supports characters as tanky as bunkers can be... etc. That's why I say that there is no "role" in GW2 sPvP.

I'm not saying that the tools for differentiating each roles don't exist but the game as it is barely make use of those tools and do not "force" the player to specialize it's character enough to be able to say that there exist "roles" in GW2.

• If, in order to be a decent healer you needed to stack at least 200% "healing to other" bonus, sacrificing damage and self sustain, then we could say that healer support exist.
• If the same was true for boons, limiting the extended boon duration to other players then "boon supports" would exist.
• If bunker were inherently selfish keeping every boon and healing they can output to themselves then maybe we could say that they aren't some kind of tank support hybrid.
• If DPS couldn't sustain and overload themselves with boons then maybe the dps role would exist.

But, no, everyone have everything at once in this game and there isn't any amulet that don't provide offensive stats.

Thus, I'll say it again, there is no role in GW2 sPvP. There are only dps with some that are slightly less damage oriented having either slightly more survivability or/and providing a bit more "support" to their team.

Edit: And that should also be true for other gamemodes without abomination like celestial stat existing.

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Dadnir.5038

[Saiyan.1704]

21 hours ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

They need a role selector when queuing for ranked just like Overwatch. Tank can be equivalent to support due to lack of players. But there should never be 5 side noders or 3 healers on one team. Let us pick roles! Also, get rid of duos in ranked and lock classes on load in so now more counter speccing. Force people to play the class they que on.

Just a reminder. This game is 4 years older than Overwatch. Many elements of OW's PvP system matchmaking system is meant to be OPEN. In that, you know WHO is a tank and WHO is a healer, dps, etc. GW2 was never that intricate.

This game's PvP system out of the box was so good at the time, it was thought it was going Pro-League.
It never evolved into that open-box, "overwatch" matchmaking... and because of it, it never grew larger than it did when GW2 had tournaments.

[Last Crab.6054]

if they disable class swapping, half the problem would be solved.

if they remove duo q, the other half would be solved.

they won't, but they should.

[Eddie.9143]

23 hours ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

They need a role selector when queuing for ranked just like Overwatch. Tank can be equivalent to support due to lack of players. But there should never be 5 side noders or 3 healers on one team. Let us pick roles! Also, get rid of duos in ranked and lock classes on load in so now more counter speccing. Force people to play the class they que on.

Lol bro stop making sense 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Just a reminder. This game is 4 years older than Overwatch. Many elements of OW's PvP system matchmaking system is meant to be OPEN. In that, you know WHO is a tank and WHO is a healer, dps, etc. GW2 was never that intricate.

Which is funny because it's about 5 years younger than TF2 (which Overwatch is also essentially based off of)--so they could have taken the champions thing and made it into actual roles instead of eventually coming up with whatever stronghold is supposed to be lol.

But...nope!

[choovanski.5462]

what is up with all the players who think pvp has no roles?

On 12/27/2023 at 3:45 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

The true issue with "roles" is that taking on a role barely penalise the character. Most, if not all, amulets available are "offensive" in nature, effectively making everyone a "dps". There is almost no penalty for chosing a support role (and it's especially true is sPvP) which end up making supports characters as tanky as bunkers can be... etc. That's why I say that there is no "role" in GW2 sPvP.

I'm not saying that the tools for differentiating each roles don't exist but the game as it is barely make use of those tools and do not "force" the player to specialize it's character enough to be able to say that there exist "roles" in GW2.

• If, in order to be a decent healer you needed to stack at least 200% "healing to other" bonus, sacrificing damage and self sustain, then we could say that healer support exist.
• If the same was true for boons, limiting the extended boon duration to other players then "boon supports" would exist.
• If bunker were inherently selfish keeping every boon and healing they can output to themselves then maybe we could say that they aren't some kind of tank support hybrid.
• If DPS couldn't sustain and overload themselves with boons then maybe the dps role would exist.

But, no, everyone have everything at once in this game and there isn't any amulet that don't provide offensive stats.

Thus, I'll say it again, there is no role in GW2 sPvP. There are only dps with some that are slightly less damage oriented having either slightly more survivability or/and providing a bit more "support" to their team.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Core_Shout_Support

can anyone seriously tell me this is a dps build?

I mean sure amulet deletion is an issue but the game has the same roles it's always had:

Roamer, side node dualist, team fight dmg, bruiser, and support

nothing has changed from core gw2 role wise, like look at that guardian build- it's basically what was played when the game was released- that's how little roles have changed. if you're out here looking at the current meta and can't see builds with roles idk what to even say.

 

feel like since no one seems to think there are roles in pvp & queue with roles would be unsuccessful. I just think players would all pick the role with the shortest queue times, & you'd end up with rifle holo in your support slot.

Edited December 28, 2023 by choovanski.5462

[Dadnir.5038]

9 hours ago, choovanski.5462 said:

what is up with all the players who think pvp has no roles?

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Core_Shout_Support

can anyone seriously tell me this is a dps build?

I mean sure amulet deletion is an issue but the game has the same roles it's always had:

Roamer, side node dualist, team fight dmg, bruiser, and support

nothing has changed from core gw2 role wise, like look at that guardian build- it's basically what was played when the game was released- that's how little roles have changed. if you're out here looking at the current meta and can't see builds with roles idk what to even say.

 

feel like since no one seems to think there are roles in pvp & queue with roles would be unsuccessful. I just think players would all pick the role with the shortest queue times, & you'd end up with rifle holo in your support slot.

Can you kill something with 1k power and 1k precision? Yes.

Are those 2 stats the primary stats? Yes.

Do you have shitload of self sustain with this build? Yes.

Are you truly only a support with this build? No.

My implicit argument that you didn't quite caught is that the difference between dps, tank/bunker and support is to small to really talk about "roles" in this game. A support character that can pump himself with offensive boons and have the backing of offensive stat from it's equipement is in itself a dps. A support character that benefit from 90% of it's healing output and 100% of it's defensive boons/cleanse outgoing output is effectively a "tank".

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Ofc there's unbalanced teams. DuoQ = unbalanced teams in 5v5

Always going to be at least 2 solos playing at a disadvantage if not closer to 8 solos because duoq has never been popular with anyone besides 'pro-players'

Easy to see why that is