Suggestion: remove rallybots

[exeggcuter.8394]

Clickbait title, sorry.

The mechanic of rallying off of dead players is, in my opinion, insufficient. With extremely rare exceptions, in guild wars 2, it is impossible to intentionally or accidentally screw up friendly players.

The fact harvest nodes, and all loot really is instanced is the simplest example of that design philosophy. No friendly fire, etc. Almost without exception, it's impossible for someone to intentionally mess up your own team, and even harder to mess up your team by accident.

The problem: Killing a player in WvW is capable of rallying a whole mess of players. I fully understand this is part of the general strategy, and that's fine. However, I've often heard of the issue of brand new players making the experience for their own team worse since they obviously don't know what they are doing yet (because they are new). These new players engage in a fun zerg vs zerg fight, die, and rally the entire enemy zerg. I've seen zergs hold off on finishing off a player until its convenient to maximize the utility of this insufficient mechanic. I would never do this myself, but I could easily see someone doing this intentionally because Reasons.

Potential Solution: Remove the ability to rally from dead players, or reduce the number who can be rallied this way to some arbitrary lower number. Maybe just one person, whoever happens to be closest or whatever. Continuing to allow rallying from NPC's would remain reasonable to give the team attacking an objective some kind of mechanical advantage.

What this solves: None of the dense zergs will mind new players being around as much since they will no longer be able to effectively help the other team. It will be a lot easier for new players to be welcomed into the WvW community since it's a lot harder us to be effectively worse than dead weight, pun intended.

TLDR: One of the few ways to harm allies in all of guild wars 2 plz remove / rework thanks.

[Kate.3679]

19 minutes ago, exeggcuter.8394 said:

Potential Solution: Remove the ability to rally from dead players, or reduce the number who can be rallied this way to some arbitrary lower number. Maybe just one person, whoever happens to be closest or whatever. Continuing to allow rallying from NPC's would remain reasonable to give the team attacking an objective some kind of mechanical advantage.

 

Killing a downed player only rallies one player already.

[CafPow.1542]

Hmm

since a lot of people seem to hate downed state (and really, they hate ghe fact that a downed player can rally i think), this would nerf said downed state without removing it.

Since i doubt, downed state will be removed entirely forever, this could be an appropriate approach.

[CafPow.1542]

Just now, Kate.3679 said:

Killing a downed player only rallies one player already.

Isn’t it 2 or 3? I thought it was more than 1 but not „all downies in the area“ but maybe I’m messing something up.

[Kate.3679]

Just now, CafPow.1542 said:

Isn’t it 2 or 3? I thought it was more than 1 but not „all downies in the area“ but maybe I’m messing something up.

It is 1. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally

[CafPow.1542]

27 minutes ago, Kate.3679 said:

It is 1. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally

Clearly. Don’t know where i had my info from but there’s no debate. All clear now thanks.

well under that light, op‘s suggestion would impact the mechanic in a very minor way for zergs.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

Honestly, they shud disable Rallying but not disable downstate in WvW.

[XenesisII.1540]

Rally 1:1 has been in the game for years now.

We also talked about down state stuff a couple weeks ago, feel free to add your input there.

 

 

[SweetPotato.7456]

Hello.... 
I always try to hit as many player as possible when I am following a commander, any commander, because the chances that I rally  is higher, you aren't getting that away from me. na-ah!
=

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Hello.... 
I always try to hit as many player as possible when I am following a commander, any commander, because the chances that I rally  is higher, you aren't getting that away from me. na-ah!
=

This is a very valid tactic and applies more if you are down. Don't hit just one target but hit every other enemy downed around you so that they are all in the lotto if they are defeated you rally. 

This is a 1:1 to rally though. 

5 hours ago, exeggcuter.8394 said:

The problem: Killing a player in WvW is capable of rallying a whole mess of players.

Egg, it was already changed and it is 1:1. This is always why there are other test options that players suggested for no downstate weeks that would adjust downstate but not remove it while leaving it as a gameplay option. 

All that said, for those that question defense events and people gaining participation for a defense events. If a doomed ally goes yolo into the other side's zerg more people seem to be flagged as attackers and the odds are higher of triggering the defense event. So if get you caught in a bad spot and still want to help your side I would suggest:

 

[urd.8306]

Just get rid of fast rezzing

[KrHome.1920]

Rally ratio is 1:1.

I know this because getting downed next to a downed enemy on low health and immediately getting up again (basically a huge heal) is often part of my frontline strategy.

Super annoying when some noob is downed half a second later a millimeter closer to the downed enemy and rallies instead. 🤬

TL;DR: Remove downstate!

[Luranni.9470]

The best bit is npc's rallying 5 players.  Or siege.  Or siege blueprints.  We call the Quartermaster npc in camps the Rallymaster and tell people not to res it for that reason.  Anet said they fixed rallying from random (non-structure) npc's but only some of them.  Players can still rally from deer, brackish scales, some black bears etc.  The veteran ogre chieftains in EB can also banner res fully dead players. In my opinion you should only be able to get 1 rally (from a dead player) then if you go down again in 60s you are full dead.  ALL npc and random object rallies should be deleted.  By the same token repeated mass and insta ressing should have some sort of penalty if performed on the same player repeatedly - the existing original mechanic is not fit for purpose with how the game has changed.

[Caffynated.5713]

The game is balanced around the way downstate functions. If it's removed/altered, the game would need a major overhaul of how everything is balanced. 

ANet isn't going to commit those resources for WvW. 

Edited January 12 by Caffynated.5713

[Luranni.9470]

4 minutes ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

The game is balanced around the way downstate functions. If it's removed/altered, the game would need a major overhaul of how everything is balanced. 

ANet isn't going to commit those resources for WvW. 

No.

The game WAS balanced around how downstate functions.  That game did not have the level of boons, heals, barriers, bubbles and instaresses that this game now does.  Downedstate existed because there were no healers - just look at us now!

[Caffynated.5713]

1 minute ago, Luranni.9470 said:

No.

The game WAS balanced around how downstate functions.  That game did not have the level of boons, heals, barriers, bubbles and instaresses that this game now does.  Downedstate existed because there were no healers - just look at us now!

Downstate exists because you can be sent to the shadow realm from 1500 range untelegraphed abilities that do more than 100% of your health pool. Without rally and quick res, any build that can't survive focus from multiple ranged spike builds becomes unplayable. 

[CafPow.1542]

18 minutes ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

Downstate exists because you can be sent to the shadow realm from 1500 range untelegraphed abilities that do more than 100% of your health pool. Without rally and quick res, any build that can't survive focus from multiple ranged spike builds becomes unplayable

This reminds me of the thread about auras that are to strong. See, it’s fine to delete my face from 1.5k range but it’s not fine when i chill the dude for 1second in the process lol.

but that’s another very silly topic.

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

The game is balanced around the way downstate functions. If it's removed/altered, the game would need a major overhaul of how everything is balanced. 

ANet isn't going to commit those resources for WvW. 

Downstate could use balancing and that wouldn't mean a massive overhaul. It was designed with it in mind but it could be better than it is now. Not a fan of all on or all off, even while I rather enjoy no downstate weeks myself. You are rights it is a complicated issue but doesn't mean its not worth the time to adjust and test.

[Kayowin.9217]

19 hours ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Honestly, they shud disable Rallying but not disable downstate in WvW.

This %%%%1000000%%%%!    They should do a NO RALLY week event where you have to earn your rez.   The rally "dodgeball" mechanic is flat out awful in WvW.   Downstate is fine as is if you remove the RALLY aspect of it.    PLEAS PLEASE PLEASE ANET, people have been asking for this for years!

[XenesisII.1540]

Pfft nerf 1:1 rally but not the F rally, or Revive skills?

Ok I'm sure the problem will go away with just that. 😏

[Lucy.3728]

22 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Clearly. Don’t know where i had my info from but there’s no debate. All clear now thanks.

well under that light, op‘s suggestion would impact the mechanic in a very minor way for zergs.

Whatever wiki says, in game I experienced otherwise. More than 1. At least in wvw.

Edited January 13 by Lucy.3728

[SweetPotato.7456]

1 hour ago, Kate.3679 said:

Now i'm against the thread too,  as I think rallying is fine in it's current state. But if you really got kicked from that guild, it sounds like you deserved it .

Deserved what exactly? do you know the reasons they kick me repeatedly and the whole guild in TEAMSPEAK were laughing, and one giggling witch.

Edited January 13 by SweetPotato.7456

[Kate.3679]

13 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Deserved what exactly? do you know the reasons they kick me repeatedly and the whole guild in TEAMSPEAK were laughing, and one giggling witch.

I don't need to know the exact reason to know that you most likely deserved it.

[Widebody.5071]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:30 PM, exeggcuter.8394 said:

Clickbait title, sorry.

The mechanic of rallying off of dead players is, in my opinion, insufficient. With extremely rare exceptions, in guild wars 2, it is impossible to intentionally or accidentally screw up friendly players.

The fact harvest nodes, and all loot really is instanced is the simplest example of that design philosophy. No friendly fire, etc. Almost without exception, it's impossible for someone to intentionally mess up your own team, and even harder to mess up your team by accident.

The problem: Killing a player in WvW is capable of rallying a whole mess of players. I fully understand this is part of the general strategy, and that's fine. However, I've often heard of the issue of brand new players making the experience for their own team worse since they obviously don't know what they are doing yet (because they are new). These new players engage in a fun zerg vs zerg fight, die, and rally the entire enemy zerg. I've seen zergs hold off on finishing off a player until its convenient to maximize the utility of this insufficient mechanic. I would never do this myself, but I could easily see someone doing this intentionally because Reasons.

Potential Solution: Remove the ability to rally from dead players, or reduce the number who can be rallied this way to some arbitrary lower number. Maybe just one person, whoever happens to be closest or whatever. Continuing to allow rallying from NPC's would remain reasonable to give the team attacking an objective some kind of mechanical advantage.

What this solves: None of the dense zergs will mind new players being around as much since they will no longer be able to effectively help the other team. It will be a lot easier for new players to be welcomed into the WvW community since it's a lot harder us to be effectively worse than dead weight, pun intended.

TLDR: One of the few ways to harm allies in all of guild wars 2 plz remove / rework thanks.

There's bigger problem in WVW then rallying off a players death. I think the practice of posting up alts all over the influencing population levels and acting as scouts is a far more abusive activity then rallying off a death. But hey everyone should play as they like until they're affected themselves.

 

 

[SweetPotato.7456]

9 hours ago, Kayowin.9217 said:

They did.  Funny thing tho, it was before my time so I didn't do the actual kicking.  xD          Sweet Potato, now that I know who you are, I will to be extra nice to you and try to make up for any additional perceived wrongs.  ❤️   Feel free to msg me in game and we can discuss the giggle witch some more (If I'm not tagged) and not pollute this topic.    

Thank you for your consideration,, I should have known earlier to move on, because even now when I see your guild tag, it triggers me. But no thanks. who ever did the bullying and giggle in that Teamspeak crowd should know what they did is wrong, and do not repeat it on others.