After WR and Maybe Have Leagues/Tournaments Again?

[Mabi black.1824]

15 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

With the way WvW was structured, it should have never been about earning "points" to determine who "wins". Most other RvR modes in other games don't play for points, for a reason.

Is this perhaps one of the reasons why WVW works better than all its other bad copies? I am convinced that if its scoring system wasn't ''broken'' and based on this it would have been filled with competitive ''events'' ( And this is demonstrated by all the unofficial events that players no longer know how to invent in gw2mists.com ) this mode would have been even more unique, and would have dragged many more players in.

PvP players here, wander through the clouds in desperate search of another large-scale PvP game, where the comparison is believable. Where you win or lose takes on whatever meaning you want. Unfortunately or fortunately there isn't. 

Edited February 10 by Mabi black.1824

[Mabi black.1824]

Look, Anet could easily test what I'm telling you. Just add a flow coefficient in our current point system, since the flow reading is already available. You organize a 4-week event, a toneo, and put a stupid prize at the end for the winner. Then we see if we burn out the players or if we see the players more interested and more engaged. So you also realize what we mean when we write '' participation '' or  'team spirit'.

Edited February 10 by Mabi black.1824

[Zyreva.1078]

Even if you take time/numbers out of the equation with a score divided by play hours, you still have the problem that players are reliant on hundreds if not thousands of other more or less random players and therefore their own performance has near zero impact on the outcome. So either players continue to simply not care, transfer to a "better" world (and get bored), or get frustrated from inevitable losses and quit. Neither is going to be beneficial for the game  mode.

Also it's a 3-way game mode with also inevitably creates unfairness that should have no place in an competition.

As i already said multiple times - WvW lacks absolute basic requirements for a truly competitive enviroment, no matter the scoring system or which system for "team" building is in use. And for those players that really want come sort of competition, there is room for player made tournaments and such.

Edited February 10 by Zyreva.1078

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

and put a stupid prize at the end for the winner.

What’s the stupid prize?

Make it a bent fork for 22c and it won’t burn people out, no.

What if you make it 2000 gold for everyone on the world that end as tier 1?

Here’s your problem - it’s either gonna be worthless or worth too much. There is no scenario that will make 95% of WvW go oh yeah those 5% on that stacked world where many just transferred deserve their loot and we don’t.

[XenesisII.1540]

7 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Is this perhaps one of the reasons why WVW works better than all its other bad copies? I am convinced that if its scoring system wasn't ''broken'' and based on this it would have been filled with competitive ''events'' ( And this is demonstrated by all the unofficial events that players no longer know how to invent in gw2mists.com ) this mode would have been even more unique, and would have dragged many more players in.

PvP players here, wander through the clouds in desperate search of another large-scale PvP game, where the comparison is believable. Where you win or lose takes on whatever meaning you want. Unfortunately or fortunately there isn't. 

Points is not the reason why WvW is better than it's counterparts.

Warhammer was a better game, period. It died because their license agreement was over, and they made it a sub based game trying to compete with WoW at the time, in an era where many others were failing with subs trying to compete with that 900lb gorilla.

Dark Age of Camelot is old, destroyed by an expansion, but is fondly remembered as one of the grand daddy's of RvR.

ESO always has lag and balance problems, overcame it's sub mistake early on to survive.

Planetside 2 is still around and just had it's 11th anniversary, a miracle really since the market is absolutely dominated by battle royale shooters now.

GW2 fixed it's lag and culling problem early on, and as much as we kitten about balance it's actually still one of the better balanced games, although the last couple years are pushing it into ESO territory of bad balance and increasing lag.

And now I'll tell you the biggest reason why WvW is still better, it's not because of the points system, that concept died for many, years ago, which is why we don't have servers playing to win, and in fact we still have players and servers that tank to get better ranks, it's because of it's combat, why we have groups out every night looking only for fights, it's the smooth combat that has kept GW2 up to where it is (minus the lag spikes which I blame on boon balling these days). Practically no one is looking at points as it passively happens, they might at the end of the week if they're looking to last minute tank or go for a tie, other than that in the greater scope of wvw, there's no reason to care about points.

Lastly, it was indeed PPT tournaments, as points was the only way to win and PPK didn't exist back then as it does now other than through bloodlust, coverage is all that mattered which many servers lacked.

[Mabi black.1824]

22 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Also it's a 3-way game mode with also inevitably creates unfairness that should have no place in an competition.

As i already said multiple times - WvW lacks absolute basic requirements for a truly competitive enviroment, no matter the scoring system or which system for "team" building is in use

it's just a matter of perspective. We often associate competition in WVW with any sporting event. That doesn't mean we can frame WVW as any of the sports we know. And we don't want it either. We could associate it with epic battles, Scipio and the Africans against Caesar and the Romans or the dwarves against the orcs etc etc. 

Of course, it's a three-sided clash. Sure you're 1 in a team of thousands of players. So what? These are characteristics that apply to all teams.  To design / make the competition more believable, more transparent, more honest, means having something more in this game mode. And if done well, I'm convinced that it can help in the player's participation.

[Mabi black.1824]

22 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

What’s the stupid prize?

Make it a bent fork for 22c and it won’t burn people out, no.

What if you make it 2000 gold for everyone on the world that end as tier 1?

Here’s your problem - it’s either gonna be worthless or worth too much. There is no scenario that will make 95% of WvW go oh yeah those 5% on that stacked world where many just transferred deserve their loot and we don’t.

it's just a symbolic prize. It could be a sunglasses skin as far as I'm concerned. The point is that it is unique. You can't buy it anywhere. Only by participating in WVW. you just have to play x hours of the mode for x time on the same team ( if we assume transfers are still a thing ) .What is your problem? Some (new) players won't even know they're participating in a big competition, others will be excited to keep numbers and points under control, others still don't care because it's only 1vs1 etc etc.

You don't have to get upset and you don't have to burn yourself boy, it's just a nice competition that aims to involve/participate a huge number of players. Rest assured, do it for me.😉

[Mabi black.1824]

16 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Points is not the reason why WvW is better than it's counterparts.

Warhammer was a better game, period. It died because their license agreement was over, and they made it a sub based game trying to compete with WoW at the time, in an era where many others were failing with subs trying to compete with that 900lb gorilla.

Dark Age of Camelot is old, destroyed by an expansion, but is fondly remembered as one of the grand daddy's of RvR.

ESO always has lag and balance problems, overcame it's sub mistake early on to survive.

Planetside 2 is still around and just had it's 11th anniversary, a miracle really since the market is absolutely dominated by battle royale shooters now.

GW2 fixed it's lag and culling problem early on, and as much as we kitten about balance it's actually still one of the better balanced games, although the last couple years are pushing it into ESO territory of bad balance and increasing lag.

And now I'll tell you the biggest reason why WvW is still better, it's not because of the points system, that concept died for many, years ago, which is why we don't have servers playing to win, and in fact we still have players and servers that tank to get better ranks, it's because of it's combat, why we have groups out every night looking only for fights, it's the smooth combat that has kept GW2 up to where it is (minus the lag spikes which I blame on boon balling these days). Practically no one is looking at points as it passively happens, they might at the end of the week if they're looking to last minute tank or go for a tie, other than that in the greater scope of wvw, there's no reason to care about points.

Lastly, it was indeed PPT tournaments, as points was the only way to win and PPK didn't exist back then as it does now other than through bloodlust, coverage is all that mattered which many servers lacked.

I can share pretty much anything you've written, my friend. But I ask you. At a time when we can get more balanced teams (WR) and a new scoring system (if possible), why should we deprive this mode of play of competitive, seasonal or spot events or any other kind? Numbers to chase, motivation, and a long-term purpose that is renewed every year from scratch are things that help a game mode over time.

[Dawdler.8521]

34 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

The point is that it is unique. You can't buy it anywhere. Only by participating in WVW. you just have to play x hours of the mode for x time on the same team ( if we assume transfers are still a thing ) .

That is equivalent to an achievement award, rank reward or a reward track. You're not saying anything here that has to do with a tournament and worlds fighting each other to win so that the winners get specific rewards. 

You keep arguing against the burnout people experienced over the previous tournaments yet you don't seem to realize what a tournament is.

[Chaba.5410]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:09 AM, Mabi black.1824 said:

I mean...... Maybe that's exactly why the WVW community has been asking for a better balance for 5-6-7-8 years? So then we can have a better comparison? So then we can participate in a better competition? or not? You've been shouting out loud for years that we want balanced teams to do what? A container, a meaningless sound box? Finally we have the opportunity to have balanced teams and what do we want to do, nothing?

Well, big change, this way you're definitely able to stimulate the player. If that's what you want, sit back, you can literally do nothing at this point, that you still achieve this goal.

You have to forgive me, but honestly, I don't think that way.

I'm not sure what you're saying.

Don't mistake wanting a more fair team competition system with wanting to run a marathon over a 500m dash.

There's no reason not to have each time teams are reformed be considered a "season".  Doesn't have to be called tournaments, doesn't have to be marathons.  It's just normal operational mode.

Edited February 11 by Chaba.5410

[XenesisII.1540]

7 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I can share pretty much anything you've written, my friend. But I ask you. At a time when we can get more balanced teams (WR) and a new scoring system (if possible), why should we deprive this mode of play of competitive, seasonal or spot events or any other kind? Numbers to chase, motivation, and a long-term purpose that is renewed every year from scratch are things that help a game mode over time.

I honestly don't think we will ever achieve close to balanced teams or that a new scoring system would matter as long as points are involved. Other that that I don't have anything against the game mode being competitive from a server/world stand point. I've proposed the one day a week over multi weeks tournie idea many times already. Also there's nothing now that convinces me that Anet will work on changing wvw to any great extent after WR, not after throwing around "cornerstone" and then giving us the same lackluster effort of the past 6 years.🤷‍♂️