ronkul.1320 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 As the title says, leagues/tournaments could add a direction to wvw again and a goal for winning matches in a structured format against other worlds/shards of guilds/alliances. The last one had a good participation determination system and the rewards could be more substantial this time but fair. One example is a wvw legendary armor piece starter kit (for a choice of the components for one of the many wvw legendary armor pieces) much like the now popular gen 1 legendary weapon starter kit in the wizard's vault. The legendary armor piece components would be similar to the ones gotten from the gen 1 legendary weapon starter kit, like the base precursor piece, gift of condensed might or condensed magic, and 250 memories of battle and/or certificate of honor. This kit can be one of many rewards for the top few leaders of each wvw league tier (like top 3-5?). This kit could also be part of the wizard's vault at a much higher price than the gen 1 legendary weapon starter kit (along with a spvp version?). Thoughts? 1 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atoclone.4810 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 The original tournament was great fun though went on for far too long and led to folks leaving the game due to burnout. (Though most not the 5-6 year break like myself) Would be nice to get some kind of reward for the winning team each week/month 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Whitefire.8423 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I don't think the mode is capable supporting tournaments anymore. There are too many extrinsic motivations for dailies and weeklies, which are at odds with actually playing to win a PPT war. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, Atoclone.4810 said: The original tournament was great fun though went on for far too long and led to folks leaving the game due to burnout. (Though most not the 5-6 year break like myself) Would be nice to get some kind of reward for the winning team each week/month Indeed. Just like most weeks, the tournament was high starting activity then everyone got tired of it and many did burn out. With it being directly linked to any massive rewards, it’s a recipe to make WvW a toxic hell on earth. At the end of the day, WvW has only been around for this long because it’s fairly casual, 24/7 repetitive fun with some optional intensity. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronkul.1320 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Indeed. Just like most weeks, the tournament was high starting activity then everyone got tired of it and many did burn out. With it being directly linked to any massive rewards, it’s a recipe to make WvW a toxic hell on earth. At the end of the day, WvW has only been around for this long because it’s fairly casual, 24/7 repetitive fun with some optional intensity. Hmm would smaller rewards for each winning team each week/month and a league reward track (using wvw participation instead of winning) for long term play during the league be better (like the previous post said)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedievalThings.5417 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Tournaments will never happen again. Cheating is fairly rampant now, but it was glaringly obvious during the tournament, and it showcased pretty well that anet didn't, and still doesn't, do anything about it. It's kind of why we will never see orbs inside keeps again. Nothing says "we don't run any anti-cheat software" like guys flying over keep walls to grab the orbs. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 More reasons to win yes. Tournaments, lets get there step by step with less burnout first that is a happy balance in having fun and rewarding for actions taken. What form that comes in is a question and will be a lot of back and fourth I am sure. But right now we have a baseline of why to win is 'because'. So the world is our oyster from there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisingDawn.5796 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) I think it's too late, to try make WvW competitive in that way, even for only 4 weeks. Originally there was alot of server communities and rivalries, especially with the population that used to be active aswell, on one single main account, no alt or second accounts. So everything would feel meaningless, with the way things are atm, if they stay like these kind of worlds pairing guilds and players every 4 weeks, for team creation. Edited January 23 by RisingDawn.5796 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I agree, Tournament system is best for World Restructuring. 1-up-1-down is too slow at finding good matchups. I don't think rewards should be center point but because Tournament system has good matchmaking and incentivises teams to work and communicate together. People should realise that since there is no server to fight for, then tournaments will be quite casual. After all, your server name will be different after tournament is over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronkul.1320 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said: I agree, Tournament system is best for World Restructuring. 1-up-1-down is too slow at finding good matchups. I don't think rewards should be center point but because Tournament system has good matchmaking and incentivises teams to work and communicate together. People should realise that since there is no server to fight for, then tournaments will be quite casual. After all, your server name will be different after tournament is over. I agree there, but I think the server name will just be replaced more with large guilds and alliances names instead? A community in a different way? Also I think rewards could still be an incentive but more a participation incentive (a league reward track independent of the reward tracks for wvw already in game like the pips for skirmish ticket rewards?). There could still be a minor reward for winning teams per week/month but not as much as the participation rewards incentive because it could otherwise create some toxicity and self/team blaming if the rewards were too good as someone pointed out. Rewards incentivizes more participation in a now more fun mode because the mode has better matching making, as you said (the slide is now there it just needs a little push). I agree it should not be a center point but can be a goal/side goal (kind of like the effect we saw with wvw rush week and the temporal bonuses from them like extra wxp and wvw reward track points). Edited January 22 by ronkul.1320 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 40 minutes ago, ronkul.1320 said: There could still be a minor reward for winning teams per week/month but not as much as the participation rewards incentive because it could otherwise create some toxicity and self/team blaming if the rewards were too good as someone pointed out. Rewards incentivizes more participation in a now more fun mode because the mode has better matching making, as you said (the slide is now there it just needs a little push). I agree it should not be a center point but can be a goal/side goal (kind of like the effect we saw with wvw rush week and the temporal bonuses from them like extra wxp and wvw reward track points). Id like there to be global rewards based on server activity (killing dollies, capturing things, killing players, escorting dolyaks), but unlocking the checkpoint rewards would require 1% of the checkpoints score. So for example if your server unlocks a reward after killing 50 000 players, you would need to be part of 500 kills. In addition to this, all servers would be facing against each other on leaderboards about same things (even if not in same matchup), earning small to medium amount of extra rewards for their server if they place in top 5 of the regions WvW. To qualify for the servers tournament victory rewards, you need to max out your personal checkpoint for the activity your server won. On global leaderboards, there would also be personal section for top 10 players with bigger rewards, so if you're the top 1 dolyak or player killer in your region that week, you will get decent amount of rewards (50 goldish?) Why such a system? It is because even when players max out their personal rewards, they still need to keep playing to ensure their server actually hits those global rewards. And if you get a server that is bad at group fighting, then you can aim for example top place at camp flipping or dolyak killing. Edited January 22 by Riba.3271 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronkul.1320 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 15 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said: Id like there to be global rewards based on server activity (killing dollies, capturing things, killing players, escorting dolyaks), but unlocking the checkpoint rewards would require 1% of the checkpoints score. So for example if your server unlocks a reward after killing 50 000 players, you would need to be part of 500 kills. In addition to this, all servers would be facing against each other on leaderboards about same things (even if not in same matchup), earning small to medium amount of extra rewards for their server if they place in top 5 of the regions WvW. To qualify for the servers tournament victory rewards, you need to max out your personal checkpoint for the activity your server won. On global leaderboards, there would also be personal section for top 10 players with bigger rewards, so if you're the top 1 dolyak or player killer in your region that week, you will get decent amount of rewards (50 goldish?) Why such a system? It is because even when players max out their personal rewards, they still need to keep playing to ensure their server actually hits those global rewards. And if you get a server that is bad at group fighting, then you can aim for example top place at camp flipping or dolyak killing. So basically a participation reward track for general participation and a participation reward track (based on personal performance vs total server performance ratio) for the rewards per server achievement/winning games every week/month and a reward track for personal performance in the top of server acitivity? I am understanding this correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 8 hours ago, Riba.3271 said: I agree, Tournament system is best for World Restructuring. 1-up-1-down is too slow at finding good matchups. I don't think rewards should be center point but because Tournament system has good matchmaking and incentivises teams to work and communicate together. People should realise that since there is no server to fight for, then tournaments will be quite casual. After all, your server name will be different after tournament is over. You just used the word “tournament” to describe absolutely nothing that exist. Replace it with the word “jägermeister” and it’d have the same meaning. Edited January 23 by Dawdler.8521 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CafPow.1542 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Uhm but okay … i don’t feel that moa is so strong. A weak CC infact imo. i can still run away, LoS, hide… try that when stunned lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronkul.1320 Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Maybe have some of the rewards be materials used to upgrade the attribute wvw infusions to be more like the regular attribute infusions you can get in fractals. Right now there is little incentive to choose wvw infusions because you can also get stat increasing infusions from fractals but with agony resistance. This makes players have to switch out the wvw infusions with regular agony infusions or permanently with regular attribute infusions from fractals for the agony resistance for fractals usability. It makes wvw infusions become an unnecessary gold sink for infusion extractors just to also play fractals (which is used to make gold instead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) On 1/22/2024 at 12:59 PM, Dawdler.8521 said: Indeed. Just like most weeks, the tournament was high starting activity then everyone got tired of it and many did burn out. With it being directly linked to any massive rewards, it’s a recipe to make WvW a toxic hell on earth. I do not agree with that. It's like saying that you can't do an ultra marathon (100km in several days) because the runners get burned out, it's better to run only 100mt. This is not the case. Define the rules of the game, and players will adapt accordingly. You can build a 12-month seasonal tournament, you just need to know that, and players are forced to organize themselves accordingly. The duration of a competition is essential, both for how an athlete must train (physically and mentally) and for how he must You have to manage your energy during the sporting event. We're not inventing anything new here. It is a question of combining skill with perseverance. There are many sports disciplines that do this. Giarda il biatlon. It's not about shooting with extreme precision, you have to do it while you're skiing for miles and miles, breathless, fatigued. Merging multiple disciplines is just more interesting and less trivial. If you've burned yourself out over this, it's because you're not prepared/knowledgeable to handle this. Edited February 8 by Mabi black.1824 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said: This is not the case. Unfortunately it was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said: It's like saying that you can't do an ultra marathon (100km in several days) because the runners get burned out, it's better to run only 100mt. Besides the word sallad there which has nothing to do with WvW, that would be the literal definition of getting burned out vs having a decent competition that just happen to be an actual olympic event. No human can handle running 100km every day, 365 days a year with no sleep. They can however do sprints. For some reason people enjoy watching it, dont ask me I'm not into sports. You're right, we're not inventing anything new here. We had a tournament. It burned people out on WvW, the constant pressure to win for rewards. Because it's just a god kitten casual MMO with people that started young and are 30+ years old now - or much older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Besides the word sallad there which has nothing to do with WvW, that would be the literal definition of getting burned out vs having a decent competition that just happen to be an actual olympic event. No human can handle running 100km every day, 365 days a year with no sleep. They can however do sprints. For some reason people enjoy watching it, dont ask me I'm not into sports. You're right, we're not inventing anything new here. We had a tournament. It burned people out on WvW, the constant pressure to win for rewards. Because it's just a god kitten casual MMO with people that started young and are 30+ years old now - or much older. I find it hard to follow the logic of your reasoning. Maybe it's just a matter of point of view. But how can you think of always being present or participating in WVW 24/7 even when you choose a season of only 2 weeks. This is a big numbers game (2500 players per team) that runs for 24 hours day after day. Can you or I only participate for 2 hours? Maybe 4? Every other day? But what's the problem? Do your best when you're there and let your other teammates take care of when you're not around. That's the competitive logic we have at WVW. Relax, take a deep breath, and have fun when you go online. All this while participating in a big 1-year seasonal tournament. 10 days or 1 year won't solve your problem of always being there. If you have this vision of the game, it will only take 3 days to burn you out completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmouse.2163 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I think the new skirmish system makes a shorter tournament a possibility. Have a tournament where each round is only one 2H hour skirmish. With WR there might be the flexibility to do something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 19 minutes ago, bigmouse.2163 said: I think the new skirmish system makes a shorter tournament a possibility. Have a tournament where each round is only one 2H hour skirmish. With WR there might be the flexibility to do something like this. Maybe yes or maybe no. At this point, first of all we should understand who participates in these tournaments. What is the reference? The server? The Guild? After that, how do you envision the points system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said: Define the rules of the game, and players will adapt accordingly. You can build a 12-month seasonal tournament, you just need to know that, and players are forced to organize themselves accordingly. Please do yourself a favor and search for the word "tournament" on the old WvW forum archive. I'm currently looking for the post where a dev said they saw permanent population decline after every tournament which lead to them not doing them anymore. "Tournaments are pointless. You can’t have any tournament on predictable covarage / population based gameplay." "Tournaments? They were a bust to begin with and did more damage to the “Population Imbalance Issue” than anything else. Period." xD "This is just one idea of many, you could do tons of things like just put all player on teams red, blue, green at the beginning of the tournament and get rid of servers for the tournament. Assign players to those colors based on their total WVW rank and even out all players based on rank split between the different colors. Yah it would split up wvw guilds and server cohesion but so what it would be a more fair match up. Again more ideas, i dont see anyone else suggesting anything. and you asked for suggestions so there u go." https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Can-We-Have-Another-WvW-Tournament/page/1#post6641381 Edited February 8 by Chaba.5410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkpile.7439 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) Weekly EotM tournament better idea Edited February 8 by Junkpile.7439 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Of course anything in the future depends upon how a tournament is designed. If there's no transfers at all allowed and they get the balance right with WR, maybe. And it can't be too long really. I'm not holding my breath though. This was stated 8 years ago and they still don't have population balance really done because of lack of investment in it. I'd be surprised if any tournament in any form for WvW ever comes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Whens-the-next-WvW-tournament/page/1#post6162034 "Our primary motivation for avoiding running another tournament, is that at the end of every tournament we saw a permanent dip in the number of players playing WvW. Presumably this was due to players burning themselves out during the tournament." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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