The "Radiant Fire" change is confusing.

[Liewec.2896]

14 hours ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

It's because the notes and the change contradict each other. I was using it solely for the proc, not the activation. The trait forces players to use torch instead of choosing other build options.

ditto, i was running it in a celestial hybrid build without torch, the passive effect was great, 4 stacks of aoe burning every 10 seconds,

now it only offers a bit of burn duration, a massive nerf to anyone not permanent torch.

there was a period of time when Anet were heading in the right direction by opening up weapon specific traits to offer something to other weapons,

this change is just such a huge step backwards.

and for Anet to tell us that this change makes the trait less dependent on torch is just a slap in the face.

Edited January 31 by Liewec.2896

[draxynnic.3719]

It does make torch in one set, something else in the other more practical. Having a count recharge means that you can throw it twice and then have 24 seconds before it's finished recharging both counts, which should be plenty of time to switch to another set, run through that set's rotation, and back to torch.

It does make the trait worse for builds that aren't running torch at all. The devs are probably assuming that condi guards would naturally be running at least one.

[otto.5684]

In pve this a positive change all round. It clears the second off hand for pistol, while maintaining torch functionality. I am not aware of condi builds that use the trait and not torch. 
 

 

[Sovarica.4368]

I don't like the change the fun factor has diminished 200% and the torch throwing is so horrendously bad I keep throwing and throwing and it misses 50% of the time if they are going to give us a nerf at least fix the torch throw because it's really bad and I think all of us guards are not happy with it and we all stand together on this

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

In pve this a positive change all round. It clears the second off hand for pistol, while maintaining torch functionality. I am not aware of condi builds that use the trait and not torch. 
 

 

Taking away the passive burn for other weapons pretty much is not positive "all around".

Edited February 4 by Fueki.4753

[Gaiawolf.8261]

8 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

In pve this a positive change all round. It clears the second off hand for pistol, while maintaining torch functionality. I am not aware of condi builds that use the trait and not torch. 
 

 

Not many pve condi builds, but there are some hybrid builds, and even some power builds, that could make use the auto-procs to trigger other traits and virtues. In pvp and wvw, it was a good trait to cover other conditions too. The bigger issue here is that the Radiance master traits are far too restrictive now.

1. Radiant Fire is now ONLY good if you use a torch.
2. Retribution is ONLY good if you have high power AND high resolution uptime.
3. Wrath of Justice is ONLY good if you don't know what "good" means.

Before the change, builds without resolution at least had an option to add something useful. Now, what do we pick if not running a torch or resolution? Do you have an answer for that one? (Not being a jerk. I'm seriously asking. I would like to know what every other build should pick here.) 

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not asking about niche pve condi builds here. We all agree this change is good for the vast majority of pve condi builds. The people who are complaining run other builds (hybrid builds without a torch or power builds without resolution) or play pvp. It's just a bad change for everyone else besides most pve condi players. It looks to me like yet another case where the devs are only catering to balance the meta and not taking time to consider how it affects the broader playerbase or stifles build diversity.

Edited February 4 by Gaiawolf.8261

[otto.5684]

5 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Not many pve condi builds, but there are some hybrid builds, and even some power builds, that could make use the auto-procs to trigger other traits and virtues. In pvp and wvw, it was a good trait to cover other conditions too. The bigger issue here is that the Radiance master traits are far too restrictive now.

1. Radiant Fire is now ONLY good if you use a torch.
2. Retribution is ONLY good if you have high power AND high resolution uptime.
3. Wrath of Justice is ONLY good if you don't know what "good" means.

Before the change, builds without resolution at least had an option to add something useful. Now, what do we pick if not running a torch or resolution? Do you have an answer for that one? (Not being a jerk. I'm seriously asking. I would like to know what every other build should pick here.) 

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not asking about niche pve condi builds here. We all agree this change is good for the vast majority of pve condi builds. The people who are complaining run other builds (hybrid builds without a torch or power builds without resolution) or play pvp. It's just a bad change for everyone else besides most pve condi players. It looks to me like yet another case where the devs are only catering to balance the meta and not taking time to consider how it affects the broader playerbase or stifles build diversity.

Any change will always come at an opportunity cost. Yes, the trait could have been used with some niche power builds for extra damage. However, it was always weaker than retribution. I think the benefit of the change out-ways the cost.

I do however agree, there has been a movement of separation of most major traits to power - condi - support, to simplify balance. For the fun of making builds, this sucks. And it has been a balance trend of simplifying + homogenising classes/builds to make them easier to balance. All this is coming it the cost of diversity.

[Antycypator.9874]

> less dependent on always having a torch equipped

but

> Radiant Fire grants an additional ammunition to Zealot's Fire

which makes Radiant Fire 100% dependent on having torch, because ZF is Torch #4 and you can make use of it only by using torch. Did I miss something?

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

Any change will always come at an opportunity cost. Yes, the trait could have been used with some niche power builds for extra damage. However, it was always weaker than retribution. I think the benefit of the change out-ways the cost.

I do however agree, there has been a movement of separation of most major traits to power - condi - support, to simplify balance. For the fun of making builds, this sucks. And it has been a balance trend of simplifying + homogenising classes/builds to make them easier to balance. All this is coming it the cost of diversity.

I don't mind homogenization in favor of more parts that can work together (this can actually increase build and team diversity if done right) or for easier balance development, but I'm not a fan of hand-holding over build diversity, at least not in an MMO with such a robust wiki and online community. And as an OG GW player, especially not a game that puts the words "Guild Wars" anywhere in the title. That said, I actually like the synergy between power and resolution in the traitline (an example of it being done right), despite considering Retribution the most bland of those components. I'd probably be happy with the Radiant Fire change if they took the opportunity to rework the underwhelming, unreliable Wrath of Justice trait.

3 hours ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

> less dependent on always having a torch equipped

but

> Radiant Fire grants an additional ammunition to Zealot's Fire

which makes Radiant Fire 100% dependent on having torch, because ZF is Torch #4 and you can make use of it only by using torch. Did I miss something?

Meta builds needed to equip a torch on both weapon sets to make full use of the trait before the rework (i.e. "always having a torch equipped" meant set #1 = axe/torch and set #2 = scepter/torch). Now they only need the torch equipped on weapon set #1 and can switch to pistol/pistol on set #2 for half the damage rotation.

[draxynnic.3719]

Hrrmn. There was a time when Wrath of Justice was good in competitive, but it looks like that's been split and nerfed. Probably is a good opportunity to split it into something more generally applicable.

[Antycypator.9874]

23 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Meta builds needed to equip a torch on both weapon sets to make full use of the trait before the rework (i.e. "always having a torch equipped" meant set #1 = axe/torch and set #2 = scepter/torch). Now they only need the torch equipped on weapon set #1 and can switch to pistol/pistol on set #2 for half the damage rotation.

But before Radian Fire changes, you could have condi guardian with power weapons, which was really good for this class. For solo builds there was often literally no difference between weapon sets, because Radiant Fire on critical hit was huge chunk of condition damage.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

53 minutes ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

But before Radian Fire changes, you could have condi guardian with power weapons, which was really good for this class. For solo builds there was often literally no difference between weapon sets, because Radiant Fire on critical hit was huge chunk of condition damage.

Oh yeah. No argument here, except I'd say it was only a moderate chunk of damage for most builds. The trait was still quite good and worth it for many builds. This change to the trait is only better for meta condi builds that used a torch in both weapon sets to maximize the damage rotation. I firmly believe the current balance team are meta fanboys, or they're trying to define trait choices strictly to push what they believe should be meta options (as another poster mentioned), and they don't adequately consider how their changes affect the rest of the builds out there.