DH damage is perfectly balance stop crying about it /s :D

[BonggangKikay.9576]

https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryBenevolentSandstormPipeHype-W5UOaMzyJ2LIyBOt

casual DH damage is indeed perfectly balance 😄

10k True shot on a warrior without even being F1-ed

Edited January 26 by BonggangKikay.9576

[DanAlcedo.3281]

The skill roots you. So it needs the dmg to be balance. 🙃

I just wonder why other classes and their Rooted skills don't get the same. 🤔

Edited January 26 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Susi Musi.2964]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

The skill roots you. So it needs the dmg to be balance. 🙃

I just wonder why other classes and their Rooted skills don't get the same. 🤔

Wdym? 100b does the same dmg (nvm that the cast time is longer, melee and you have use it 2 times to break even)

[Kuma.1503]

My only frustration with DH...

Spear is one of those very high impact skills with virtually no animation attatched. 

Sure, traps hurt, but that wouldn't matter if spear had a clear reactable animation. 

And it's unblockable so you can't use channeled blocks if unsure of when its coming. 

F3 makes matters worse. A visually noisy skill that makes the brief hand wave even harder to detect.

Hand waves arent clear animations. Every high impact skill should be easily detectable from a distance. Tone down visual noise for low impact skills. 

For clarity's sake, I'm not saying DH has no other issues. This is just my personal grievance with it. 

 

Edited January 26 by Kuma.1503

[Eddie.9143]

Boyce always running some weird ish lmao. Gs axe/sw lol

[Myror.7521]

@Eddie.9143 well its an actually pretty solid build..... not for 1v1ing but for Roaming/ plus one and stuff xd

[Eddie.9143]

11 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Eddie.9143 well its an actually pretty solid build..... not for 1v1ing but for Roaming/ plus one and stuff xd

hey I said he runs weird ish...but never underpowered lol

[Gotejjeken.1267]

That clip just Boyce being greedy for a down / BM'ing whoever after he just 10k'd them himself lolol

Traps are one thing, but getting hit with trueshot, esp. like that is super lack of awareness imo

[BonggangKikay.9576]

34 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

That clip just Boyce being greedy for a down / BM'ing whoever after he just 10k'd them himself lolol

Traps are one thing, but getting hit with trueshot, esp. like that is super lack of awareness imo

10k damage without even being at full damage potential on a 7sec cooldown is overturned damage regardless of how you spin it.

getting sniped in the middle of team fight skirmish is normal, its physiologically impossible to keep track on everything ALL AT ONCE your eyes can only focus at a single point at a time hence are blinded at everything else even if you zoom your focus around as fast as you can its doesn't change the fact that you are blind outside of what your eyes is currently focused on, and there's also the issue with visual clutters

in 1v1 yes its dodgeable, but in group fights it doesn't matter if it has a 0.75sec kneeling animation before the shot.

are you saying Boyce is a noob? Boyce is much better and more accomplished PVP player than most likely you or me 

Edited January 26 by BonggangKikay.9576

[Gotejjeken.1267]

21 minutes ago, BonggangKikay.9576 said:

getting sniped in the middle of team fight skirmish is normal, its physiologically impossible to keep track on everything ALL AT ONCE your eyes can only focus at a single point at a time hence are blinded at everything else even if you zoom your focus around as fast as you can its doesn't change the fact that you are blind outside of what your eyes is currently focused on, and there's also the issue with visual clutters

I assure you top players do not suffer from 'horse blinders' as you describe here.  As they don't focus on just one target--Boyce was aware of the positioning of the ranger above, the DH behind, and the necro on the ground.

That's plainly obvious as he clicks the ranger above to make sure he wasn't going to get rapid fired (and ignores them once they do a barrage) and then turns his camera directly away from the DH that is just standing on the bell area, most likely as he thought the DH was out of range or just didn't care about taking the hit.  Guessing he felt they were out of range as he BM'd on the bell side instead of the node side which most likey would have put him out of range of that TS.  

Boyce is well aware of DH damage as not only is he a top player, but he's also always in Naru streams and Naru has played DH a lot in recent months.  I've fought Naru + duo's a few times last season when they were on DH (and various other specs) and made it out just fine with positioning.  Only time it felt 'unfair' was again, the traps + a duo DE or something just melting you.  

This clip though...to me is just 'top player syndrome' where they figure they can make it out of any random encounter and sometimes get surprised.  Not even sure from the clip if its ranked or he's just memeing around in unranked with a random warrior build?

Edited January 26 by Gotejjeken.1267

[BonggangKikay.9576]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I assure you top players do not suffer from 'horse blinders' as you describe here.  As they don't focus on just one target--Boyce was aware of the positioning of the ranger above, the DH behind, and the necro on the ground.

That's plainly obvious as he clicks the ranger above to make sure he wasn't going to get rapid fired (and ignores them once they do a barrage) and then turns his camera directly away from the DH that is just standing on the bell area, most likely as he thought the DH was out of range or just didn't care about taking the hit.  Guessing he felt they were out of range as he BM'd on the bell side instead of the node side which most likey would have put him out of range of that TS.  

Boyce is well aware of DH damage as not only is he a top player, but he's also always in Naru streams and Naru has played DH a lot in recent months.  I've fought Naru + duo's a few times last season when they were on DH (and various other specs) and made it out just fine with positioning.  Only time it felt 'unfair' was again, the traps + a duo DE or something just melting you.  

This clip though...to me is just 'top player syndrome' where they figure they can make it out of any random encounter and sometimes get surprised.  Not even sure from the clip if its ranked or he's just memeing around in unranked with a random warrior build?

I think you didn't understand what I said and is talking about a different thing because being aware of the position has nothing to do with whatever the hell I said.

being aware of the position =/= to being able to keep track of both character's animation which is what I'm talking about. basically you know there is a DH at the bell and you know there is a ranger above you, but it doesn't mean that you are able to see the DH kneeling for a true shot when you are looking at the ranger's animation above you.

what this basically say is that it doesn't matter if an ability has a couple of millisecond animation lock like True Shot because when it is a chaotic team fight YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO TRACK THE ANIMATION  OF ALL ENEMY ALL AT ONCE especially if visual clutters are factored in.

what this means is that a class with 7s cd that can casually deal 10k without even being at its highest damage potential has overturned damage even if said ability has an animation root of 0.75s. because small animation roots like that mean jackkitten in a chaotic group teamfight.

Edited January 26 by BonggangKikay.9576

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, BonggangKikay.9576 said:

what this basically say is that it doesn't matter if an ability has a couple of millisecond animation lock like True Shot because when it is a chaotic team fight YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO TRACK THE ANIMATION  OF ALL ENEMY ALL AT ONCE especially if visual clutters are factored in.

Says who? I track it just fine and I only play to p1 at most.  

Also, it wasn't a chaotic team fight lol, it was boyce and a duo trolling a downed reaper.  Just saying, but I thought it was obvious...

Anyway, you'd have better luck with this argument and DH traps; not trueshot which has a friggin' huge telegraph.  

Edited January 27 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Flowki.7194]

56 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Says who? I track it just fine and I only play to p1 at most.  

Also, it wasn't a chaotic team fight lol, it was boyce and a duo trolling a downed reaper.  Just saying, but I thought it was obvious...

Anyway, you'd have better luck with this argument and DH traps; not trueshot which has a friggin' huge telegraph.  

What he said is not wrong at all. Ranger LB is not as bad, it takes longer for LB2/5 to complete full damage, or you get a CC warning before hand, even if the ranger is not actualy in view. Mesmer also gives you visual warning of incoming damage despite not being on screen. In-fact just about all ranged classes have slower damage or for warnings of incoming off screen burst. You cannot keep all enemy on screen at all times, its simply not possible (perhaps only if youre support). DH does far too much damage in 1 hit, and too fast at range. It also does far too much melee range damage considering its tank. And then it has multiple unblockables. 

 

Really, at this point, anybody playing DH has no shame, no sense of fair compitition. Same sort of people who flocked to scrapper when broken, SB, and condi cata. I'd rather lose than win like that.

[BonggangKikay.9576]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Says who? I track it just fine and I only play to p1 at most.  

Also, it wasn't a chaotic team fight lol, it was boyce and a duo trolling a downed reaper.  Just saying, but I thought it was obvious...

Anyway, you'd have better luck with this argument and DH traps; not trueshot which has a friggin' huge telegraph.  

ummm... Boyce? in that clip? getting hit by a 10k TS, LOL. are you seriously saying P1 is better than the mAT champions that wasn't able to track it? hmmmmm...... why don't you stream a ranked match and teamfight mid, so we'll see an actual proof of you tracking animations all at once and not get hit by them because you might as well be talking out of the a55

I never said that this fight was chaotic.

the huge telegraphed attack i.e. True Shot nailed Boyce  in a teamfight a guy with more credential in PVP than a plat 1 LOL shows it doesn't mean kitten if its telegraphed by a 0.75 delay. in a  group fight.

 

Edited January 27 by BonggangKikay.9576

[Shagie.7612]

if it's gonna have a 1500 range nuke, unblockables that actually do a good job (i am jealous), undodgeable pulls, area denial and whatever else, then it should immediately flop if you sneeze on it, to either kind of damage

for what it's worth i don't really think having skills in team based games where you might just instantly die if you get hit, whether they're very telegraphed or not, is a good use of power budget on anyone
it's frustrating for either side of the encounter, for the one who gets hit by it, to the person who never has a chance to hurt the other player because they're an all-or-nothing spec and might as well go afk if it doesn't work

Edited January 27 by Shagie.7612

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

What he said is not wrong at all. Ranger LB is not as bad, it takes longer for LB2/5 to complete full damage, or you get a CC warning before hand

You get a CC warning beforehand? This is Boyce, you get hit with 10k from stealth and that's it.  The LB #4 => #2 is noobstomber move at best. 

1 hour ago, BonggangKikay.9576 said:

ummm... Boyce? in that clip? getting hit by a 10k TS, LOL

That is correct.  You watched the clip and even listened to him go '10k True Shot with noooo tether...hmmmmm'.  Nice.

Again, a TS he's not getting hit with if he wasn't BM jumping up and down for 2s in range of said DH.  

But, since we're now throwing mAT into things..here's Decembers EU finals:

See any DH there?

[Saiyan.1704]

6 hours ago, BonggangKikay.9576 said:

I think you didn't understand what I said and is talking about a different thing because being aware of the position has nothing to do with whatever the hell I said.

being aware of the position =/= to being able to keep track of both character's animation which is what I'm talking about. basically you know there is a DH at the bell and you know there is a ranger above you, but it doesn't mean that you are able to see the DH kneeling for a true shot when you are looking at the ranger's animation above you.

what this basically say is that it doesn't matter if an ability has a couple of millisecond animation lock like True Shot because when it is a chaotic team fight YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO TRACK THE ANIMATION  OF ALL ENEMY ALL AT ONCE especially if visual clutters are factored in.

what this means is that a class with 7s cd that can casually deal 10k without even being at its highest damage potential has overturned damage even if said ability has an animation root of 0.75s. because small animation roots like that mean jackkitten in a chaotic group teamfight.

That wasn't a chaotic fight. I was expecting to see some form of 3v3 or 4v4 blob fight in middle prior to seeing the clip but... there wasn't anything cluttering about that clip one bit buuuut that's neither here nor there. Lets talk about the DH 10k Trueshot on a Heavy.

It's important to note how that DH pulled off a 10k Trueshot without F1's 15% increase damage... this is 100% what this thread is about.

• Sigil of Seperation's - 5% damage increase to range targets
• Sigil of Opportunity's - 5% damage against movement impaired
• Zealot's Aggression - 10% damage to crippled foes
  Pure of Sight (DH trait) - 15% damage at max range
• Radiant Power (Radiance trait) - Attacks against burning players is +150 Ferocity +10% crit
• Ferocity Runes -  Dragonhunter runes or similar, 0 ferocity to 300 Ferocity is a difference of 20% damage on crit.
  
  Boyce had burn and cripple on him, fulfilling ALL of the above damage modifiers.

DH was 100% glass cannon at 13k health. This particular build is very much susceptible to condi along with anything that sneezes in his general direction. DH can get melted down, especially with a competent DE + Engi but from the looks of Boyce's team, score, and two people on respawn, they were having issues everywhere on the map.

[Shagie.7612]

8 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

This particular build is very much susceptible to condi along with anything that sneezes in his general direction. DH can get melted down

respectfully i dont think u know the meaning of getting melted as a guardian player

[Flowki.7194]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You get a CC warning beforehand? This is Boyce, you get hit with 10k from stealth and that's it.  The LB #4 => #2 is noobstomber move at best. 

 

Don't twist the context, I'm comparing ranged abilitys here, not melee stealth jumps (which im not defending.. since stealth is another issue in this game).

 

Ranger LB is not a noob stomper, the ability to do 20k dmg in 5 seconds on an entire point from 1600 units is not underpowered, at all. LB is simply outclassed by other damage/mitigation creep. Thats what this game is, an arms race of what spec is the most creeped.. and if it isn't the most creeped, then its "useless" "not broken" "not bad game design". LB has more counterplay than DH, but LB is still not good game design either, force firing from rediculous ranges with mass low risk area denial.

Edited January 27 by Flowki.7194

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Don't twist the context, I'm comparing ranged abilitys here, not melee stealth jumps (which im not defending.. since stealth is another issue in this game).

I never said melee, even though recently Boyce likes his GS ambush from stealth.

What I meant is you can hit a 10k+ rapid fire with quickness from stealth too, and usually don't do the LB #4 beforehand to give it away.  

To me, both can be dodged, the DH one a little easier (to me) because if you dodge true shot that's it, ranger LB is channel, so you have to do probably two dodges (yes two dodges, much wow...but still 🙃).

Just to kind restate my point here, I'm not saying DH damage as a whole is fine--I think the traps are and most likely always have been in need of some looking at.  The rest of the DH kit though is kinda weak compared to a good roaming WB or just playing support (which yes I know no one wants to do, esp. in randoms).    

Edited January 27 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Flowki.7194]

17 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I never said melee, even though recently Boyce likes his GS ambush from stealth.

What I meant is you can hit a 10k+ rapid fire with quickness from stealth too, and usually don't do the LB #4 beforehand to give it away.  

To me, both can be dodged, the DH one a little easier (to me) because if you dodge true shot that's it, ranger LB is channel, so you have to do probably two dodges (yes two dodges, much wow...but still 🙃).

Just to kind restate my point here, I'm not saying DH damage as a whole is fine--I think the traps are and most likely always have been in need of some looking at.  The rest of the DH kit though is kinda weak compared to a good roaming WB or just playing support (which yes I know no one wants to do, esp. in randoms).    

See heres the thing though, you are comparing what Boyce does to just a typical run of the mill gold level DH, attaining similar damage. Its just not a good comparison to use a top level player jumping from stealth, to compare to the average DH spam in group fights. Ive played Boyce a few times and he is very clearly decent, just dodging his jumps alone feels like an achievement, let alone trying to kill him outside of a +1. The average DH has a similar effect to that in terms of pressure, they are "near" Boyce level threat with 1/5th of the skill. Blocks now mean fk all around DH, people also keep overlooking this.. dodges are not infinate, and if all you have to fall back on us a block or two, DH is completely oppressive.

 

I watched a guy who I know to be decent on power herald get owned multiple times in arena, and the DH didn't even lose 10% hp. Even the DH said his tank is rediculous, which in turn just allows them to spew out unblockable high range/melee dps while also loading himself up with blocks, which requires 0 dodge/concious mitigation skill. Ill say it again, anybody playing DH atm is a low life who does not value fair play.

Edited January 27 by Flowki.7194

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 1/26/2024 at 1:42 AM, Susi Musi.2964 said:

Wdym? 100b does the same dmg (nvm that the cast time is longer, melee and you have use it 2 times to break even)

Better off overwriting any keybind that uses 100B so you never even use it by mistake. You're better off Auto Attacking than using 100Whiffs.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

See heres the thing though, you are comparing what Boyce does to just a typical run of the mill gold level DH, attaining similar damage.

Right, because that's what anet does.

Boyce is also the reason teleburst Untamed was nerfed, and only he and similar skill level pulled that off consistently.  

Not saying good or bad, right or wrong--but that's the pattern.  Anet balances around top players no matter what the rest of us can do.  

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Right, because that's what anet does.

Boyce is also the reason teleburst Untamed was nerfed, and only he and similar skill level pulled that off consistently.  

Not saying good or bad, right or wrong--but that's the pattern.  Anet balances around top players no matter what the rest of us can do.  

They do this in every game mode. They balance off of Top PvP players for PvP, GvG players in WvW, and Golem benchmark perfectionists in PvE, all of which is to the detriment of everybody else.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:57 PM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

The skill roots you. So it needs the dmg to be balance. 🙃

I just wonder why other classes and their Rooted skills don't get the same. 🤔

buff meteor shower