How to fix celestial, boons and minstrel very easily

[TheGrimm.5624]

Plus this thread has morphed to small scale where it began at large scale. So just a bit off topic over posts as time has gone on.

[Zyreva.1078]

44 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

This mathematical argument is the statement that because Celestial has more stats in total, it is going to be better than 3 stat and 4 stat combos.

This "math" was a response to you saying my example of cele being able to beat zerk 1vs1 while not even making use of like half of the stats is somehow not accurate, because i'm not factoring in all of the stats, even tho those additional stats can't possibly make the outcome worse for cele.  So no, my argumentation isn't and never has been based on the sole fact that cele has more total stats that other combinations - because that has always been the case and it needs to be the case for cele to remain a viable choice. The issue is not that there is a disparity in total stats , but about how big that difference is and i have brought up many additional reasons, why it is actually a problem.

Never have i said, that cele gear is the optimal choice for every single possible build in every single situation. I have however said, that being optimal in every single build and situation is not a requirement in oder to consider something as op. It is in fact very unrealistic for anything to be THAT op, but that doesn't mean something can't be op within a given context. And i have tried to make that more clear with my "what happens if we buff mara?" questions, which everyone keeps evading.

I have also never said, cele is the only balance problem, but i have explained, why nerfing it is the most reasonable first step in the current meta.

Edited March 7 by Zyreva.1078

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Never have i said, that cele gear is the optimal choice for every single possible build

Not sure I would agree here, you have seemed biased that Cele is BiS in spots that are questionable, which is where we have conflicted. I didn't think you meant this so glad to see you post this. 

[Mabi black.1824]

If it can be of help in this discussion, I would say that the moment you go to build your avatar (whatever the context or the most different objective among all of us) you will have to start choosing your runes. Logically, the points you are going to increase that are distributed over 3 strokes rather than 4 strokes rather than 8 strokes (to stay on the mathematical theme) should have a total sum equal for all. If a building earns more points, compared to all the others, it goes without saying that something is not right. I guess we should start from that. The rules should be the same for everyone. We hope that we can all agree on this at least.

[Strider.7849]

Just some personal opinions:

- Minstrels doesn't need to be removed. There is counter play to it that exists in the game currently. It's primary weakness us no damage, it's a full support tank set.

- Celestial needs to be reverted and lose expertise and concentration. It was strong without those two stats and the counter was full on condi (in terms of roaming). This is a quick and easy solution in my opinion. The set will still be strong, but not best in slot for everything other than zerging.

- Boons need a two-pronged approach in order to be balanced. Toning down the amount of boons each class can provide and returning some flavourful back to diversifying class choices. Secondly boon removal need to be turned up significantly.

Unfortunately these problems are part of CMC's vision for WvW game mode. Make roaming exclusive to 1 choice, celestial. This elimates having any skilled players from being able to 1vX multiple opponents through having knowledge of their class, their terrain, and removes thinking and skill from fights. Just spam.

Secondly, make zerging only possible with greater numbers of people running specific builds that require no thought process or actual PvPing. Just press buttons on a rotation EXACTLY like in a PvE raid. Upkeep permanent boons and make it so that very rarely does anyone actually die, upon each push only those that didn't stick tightly within the boon ball get wiped. It isn't fun and I'm not sure how any of you are even able to enjoy WvW anymore with the current state of the game.

Posting this video below, it's from my current matchup - it's a 3-way fight of boon balls. Each push only kills 1-2 people who weren't able to stack tightly or follow their tag, no skill, no thinking, just press buttons off cooldown like you were DPSing a golem in the raid test area, while following the tag. The video ends with no one gaining any ground or even accomplishing anything. I'm sorry if I sound critical and I dont mean it as an insult to anyone in the video (not mine), but I only played GW2 because of this game mode and its kept me to this game since launch. Sad to see where it's leading.

There is only one way to fix this - but it seems like this boring video is what they intend for WvW.

[Mabi black.1824]

On 3/9/2024 at 8:55 AM, Strider.7849 said:

There is only one way to fix this - but it seems like this boring video is what they intend for WvW.

I would have said to see 3 groups of very good players. I guess to play like that all the groups are on vocals. Everyone is following the commander's directions. they move in a coordinated manner. I wouldn't say just pressing buttons randomly. What is the alternative? What's more directive? Cancel each other out in seconds? Would this show us more skills? We are careful what we wish for because we may get it. one day. maybe. 😊

Maybe it's just a matter of taste, but I don't know if I'd rather watch a 6.57 min video like this than a 40 sec. video or maybe the right path is the one in between.🧐