Obsidian Armor Skins?

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Why would they introduce an alternate path to a legendary skin that reduces play time? They want us playing MORE, not less. They want us to play their content for as long as possible.

Well, the end result is that, since i already have a full set of legendary armors, i don't have a reason to play this content. Unlocking a skin alone, for me, at least, does not justify the massive expenditure (t1 armor already costs close to twice of what i spent on Envoy, and t2 will likely be even more pricey). Now, if there was a path to obtain the skins alone at a reduced price (available only for those that already have legendary armor of any type) i might actually consider that.

With weapons it's a bit different (because there's quite a number of those that i might need multiples of, and in that case it is quite reasonable to get different skins for those), but there's absolutely zero use for a second legendary armor of the same weight, as you can use only one at a time (and functionality is the same).

[Wolfofdivinity.6251]

23 hours ago, SuavePuppy.2809 said:

The WvW set is literally a participation trophy

The raid set is literally that plus a credit card swipe in the LFG tab. Ours requires actual time investment. Raid armor just requires a good credit score....🤣🤣🤣

Edited February 29 by Wolfofdivinity.6251

[Zera.9435]

13 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, the end result is that, since i already have a full set of legendary armors, i don't have a reason to play this content. Unlocking a skin alone, for me, at least, does not justify the massive expenditure (t1 armor already costs close to twice of what i spent on Envoy, and t2 will likely be even more pricey). Now, if there was a path to obtain the skins alone at a reduced price (available only for those that already have legendary armor of any type) i might actually consider that.

With weapons it's a bit different (because there's quite a number of those that i might need multiples of, and in that case it is quite reasonable to get different skins for those), but there's absolutely zero use for a second legendary armor of the same weight, as you can use only one at a time (and functionality is the same).

It's fine if you don't think it is worth doing the content or playing the game as intended to get just a skin. Simply don't do it. However, and ArenaNet will agree with me on this, if you want the skin, you have to play the content as intended. They will not introduce a method to get a brand new legendary set that literally just came out by allowing you to circumvent any of the gameplay. They want you PLAYING, and obby armor will keep you busy for months.

It was only after 11 years that they FINALLY added a shortcut for some of the gen 1 legendaries with the kits, but that is because their novelty has worn off after 11 years and by now most players think nothing much of them. Notice too that the gift of mastery, the one that requires actual gameplay like map completion and WvW, is not included in the kit. Maybe in another 11 years, they will give you a shortcut to Obby armor, but don't count on it. Get to farming.

Edited March 1 by Zera.9435

[Astralporing.1957]

13 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

It's fine if you don't think it is worth doing the content or playing the game as intended to get just a skin. Simply don't do it. However, and ArenaNet will agree with me on this, if you want the skin, you have to play the content as intended. They will not introduce a method to get a brand new legendary set that literally just came out by allowing you to circumvent any of the gameplay. They want you PLAYING, and obby armor will keep you busy for months.

Then, like i said, they failed. In order to make me play, they made it far less likely that i would do so.

[Zera.9435]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Then, like i said, they failed. In order to make me play, they made it far less likely that i would do so.

For every 1 of you, there's more of us.

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Zera.9435 said:

For every 1 of you, there's more of us.

Nah. People interested in legendary armor would still do legendary armor. Lacking any, they would be incentivized to do the content more appealing to them, but they would play for it. Now, the amount of players willing to do more than one set of legendary armor just for the skins alone (and, more importantly, being able to afford it) is so small it's pretty much inconsequential. It would be a small minority even among those that are pursuing legendaries (and those aren't a big group in the first place).

[Zera.9435]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nah. People interested in legendary armor would still do legendary armor. Lacking any, they would be incentivized to do the content more appealing to them, but they would play for it. Now, the amount of players willing to do more than one set of legendary armor just for the skins alone (and, more importantly, being able to afford it) is so small it's pretty much inconsequential. It would be a small minority even among those that are pursuing legendaries (and those aren't a big group in the first place).

Touche. Regardless, you're not getting the Obby skin for less time/effort/cost than the rest of us anytime soon, if ever.

[Asum.4960]

38 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

For every 1 of you, there's more of us.

Why you are making this an us versus them if everybody could be served, to the benefit of not just all the different types players, but also the game and it's bottom line?

People go all gatekeeper and tribal over the weirdest things, even when there are simple win/win situations instead. 

33 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

Touche. Regardless, you're not getting the Obby skin for less time/effort/cost than the rest of us anytime soon, if ever.

Extremely unlikely, yes. That doesn't change my confusion about the people battling against that feedback. 

To put it differently, most people are not going to want to buy a whole new (already massively overpriced) phone - of the exact same type which they've already bought and own, just because it now comes with a new phone case colour. Just let them buy/earn the different phone case separately for their existing phone. That seems smarter business than getting nothing but slightly disgruntled/disappointed customers, who otherwise would have went for that case. 

 

But regardless, poorly designed (esp. longterm) reward structures are unfortunately by far not even the biggest issues the game has - even when they encompass an entire expansions reward scheme... which tbf, is pretty bad. 

 

/E:

And I get that people think if more others can get the Skin they just earned as part of their new Legendary Armor package, then theirs is going to be less special. But the harsh truth is, nobody cares to begin with - people just want their characters to look cool. And again, these skins have no prestige anyway - nobody is going "oh wow, look at that guy, he grinded/swiped to get another 600 T6 Mats and did Map Comp, OW events and Rifts!". Legendary functionality aside, which is crucial for those who already have it, there are more impressive and far cheaper cosmetics on the store - which is a problem if essentially the entire Expansion's content reward structure is build around getting just this, which for those with already filled Armory is just a skin.

Edited March 1 by Asum.4960

[Shiva.2059]

On 2/29/2024 at 10:49 AM, Entropy.1938 said:

. I don't begrudge anyone their legendary set  - they earned it,

I was surprised at the ease in obtaining this set, I expected that there might be a 500 mastery requirement or something similar... that makes more sense to me...  So now we come to the obvious, many of the newer gw2 people caught up in the hype are absolutely being carried and handed these sets when realistically they are not as yet versed in class skills. 

[Zera.9435]

5 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Extremely unlikely, yes. That doesn't change my confusion about the people battling against that feedback.

Because that feedback devalues the time and effort we spent earning the Obby armor. It's no different than those of us who wanted an alternate or reduced path to legendary armor that didn't require raids because it's not content we wanted to do. We got kitten on by the community for it. I was there, Gandalf, 3000 years ago. Now, it's our turn to 'gloat'. The 'us vs them' has always been and always will be there, it just takes on different forms. In this particular case it is "Those of us who earned Obby armor" and those of us who "Want the same for less time/effort/cost". This is especially worsened by the fact that it just came out 2 days ago, and people already want it for a reduced effort.

It was said back in 2015 and it bears repeating again: "If you want that armor skin, play the content." IF I want the Perfected Envoy armor skin, I'll go (begrudgingly) do raids and earn it like everyone else who did. I'll go actually play the game as intended. I'll probably complain the whole time, but I'll do it if I want the skin. Hell, I was complaining about doing rifts over and over and over and over and over for months on end, but I sucked it up and did it because I wanted that armor.

This push back is as confusing to you as people's reluctance to play the new content (regardless of what you think of the content) to earn the expansion's selling point is confusing to me. All you have to do is play the game over a period of time... you know, like you always have. If you're going to play anyway, and you want it, then just knock it out. It will keep you playing for months, as ArenaNet wants.

I understand that you guys feel it's not worth the cost for a mere skin, but your feelings about it do not matter. If you don't think the cost is worth it, don't get it. It's that simple. It's no different than when you choose whether or not to buy a skin on the gem store.  If the cost to you is not worth it, you don't get it, right? No one is forcing you to buy a skin on  the store, and no one is forcing you to get Obby armor. However, if you want it, then you know what you need to do to get it: go play the content as intended.

[Shiva.2059]

That is a well worded and  thoughtful response.  Would you have any insight as to why there does not seem to be a mastery level requirement when this is a method used consistently throughout PVE content to meter eligibility? 

[Zera.9435]

3 minutes ago, Shiva.2059 said:

That is a well worded and  thoughtful response.  Would you have any insight as to why there does not seem to be a mastery level requirement when this is a method used consistently throughout PVE content to meter eligibility? 

There IS a mastery level requirement for the Obby armor. You have to maximize the Astral Ward mastery with a total of 20 SotO mastery points. The raid armor also required a certain amount of HoT mastery points to be spent.

Edited March 1 by Zera.9435

[Shiva.2059]

2 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

There IS a mastery level requirement for the Obby armor. You have to maximize the Astral Ward mastery with a total of 20 SotO masteries. The raid armor also required a certain amount of HoT mastery points to be spent.

Ah thank you, in keeping up to date I missed that one, seems to be a cake walk when you consider the 536 points available.  I am sure they had their reasons 😄

[Zera.9435]

2 minutes ago, Shiva.2059 said:

Ah thank you, in keeping up to date I missed that one, seems to be a cake walk when you consider the 536 points available.  I am sure they had their reasons 😄

Why would you need any other expansion's masteries for SotO content? You don't need HoT masteries for PoF stuff, or vice versa. Each is its own thing. Those of us in the 536 club just happen to have done it all.

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Because that feedback devalues the time and effort we spent earning the Obby armor. It's no different than those of us who wanted an alternate or reduced path to legendary armor that didn't require raids because it's not content we wanted to do. We got kitten on by the community for it. I was there, Gandalf, 3000 years ago. Now, it's our turn to 'gloat'. The 'us vs them' has always been and always will be there, it just takes on different forms. In this particular case it is "Those of us who earned Obby armor" and those of us who "Want the same for less time/effort/cost". This is especially worsened by the fact that it just came out 2 days ago, and people already want it for a reduced effort.

It was said back in 2015 and it bears repeating again: "If you want that armor skin, play the content." IF I want the Perfected Envoy armor skin, I'll go (begrudgingly) do raids and earn it like everyone else who did. I'll go actually play the game as intended. I'll probably complain the whole time, but I'll do it if I want the skin. Hell, I was complaining about doing rifts over and over and over and over and over for months on end, but I sucked it up and did it because I wanted that armor.

This push back is as confusing to you as people's reluctance to play the new content (regardless of what you think of the content) to earn the expansion's selling point is confusing to me. All you have to do is play the game over a period of time... you know, like you always have. If you're going to play anyway, and you want it, then just knock it out. It will keep you playing for months, as ArenaNet wants.

I understand that you guys feel it's not worth the cost for a mere skin, but your feelings about it do not matter. If you don't think the cost is worth it, don't get it. It's that simple. It's no different than when you choose whether or not to buy a skin on the gem store.  If the cost to you is not worth it, you don't get it, right? No one is forcing you to buy a skin on  the store, and no one is forcing you to get Obby armor. However, if you want it, then you know what you need to do to get it: go play the content as intended.

Ah, so it's the exact gatekeeping style some people did about legendary armor when Raids got introduced, only this time applied as some sort of grudge resolving from the other side of the discussion. And like then, that tribality approach and obsession about perceived "value" or "prestige" of "exclusives", the desire to somehow "get even" (i don't even know on whom) is something that makes me sad. It seems you never truly understood what those years of legendary armor discussion were all about, because it sure as kitten weren't about perpetuating the very same mindset they were trying to combat.

(and as for what you think this is going to accomplish, i assure you the effect will be the exact opposite - the decrease of motivation compared to the suggested alternative).

[Asum.4960]

7 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Because that feedback devalues the time and effort we spent earning the Obby armor. It's no different than those of us who wanted an alternate or reduced path to legendary armor that didn't require raids because it's not content we wanted to do. We got kitten on by the community for it. I was there, Gandalf, 3000 years ago. Now, it's our turn to 'gloat'. The 'us vs them' has always been and always will be there, it just takes on different forms. In this particular case it is "Those of us who earned Obby armor" and those of us who "Want the same for less time/effort/cost". This is especially worsened by the fact that it just came out 2 days ago, and people already want it for a reduced effort.

It was said back in 2015 and it bears repeating again: "If you want that armor skin, play the content." IF I want the Perfected Envoy armor skin, I'll go (begrudgingly) do raids and earn it like everyone else who did. I'll go actually play the game as intended. I'll probably complain the whole time, but I'll do it if I want the skin. Hell, I was complaining about doing rifts over and over and over and over and over for months on end, but I sucked it up and did it because I wanted that armor.

This push back is as confusing to you as people's reluctance to play the new content (regardless of what you think of the content) to earn the expansion's selling point is confusing to me. All you have to do is play the game over a period of time... you know, like you always have. If you're going to play anyway, and you want it, then just knock it out. It will keep you playing for months, as ArenaNet wants.

I understand that you guys feel it's not worth the cost for a mere skin, but your feelings about it do not matter. If you don't think the cost is worth it, don't get it. It's that simple. It's no different than when you choose whether or not to buy a skin on the gem store.  If the cost to you is not worth it, you don't get it, right? No one is forcing you to buy a skin on  the store, and no one is forcing you to get Obby armor. However, if you want it, then you know what you need to do to get it: go play the content as intended.

Again, you seem to be too busy projecting your issue back then to see the point. This is not about people not wanting to play the content - this is people pleading for a reasonable incentive to play the content. 

Getting to pay thousands of Gold for something I already own, earned and paid for, just to get some okay skins along with it which I'm not planning to use on any of my characters, just for completions sake, is not a reward or incentive for me to play and grind out this expansion's content for. 

There will be cooler skins on the Cashshop for 1/20 of the converted Gold price any day anyway, as there usually is. That's not the issue. The issue is the game not giving me any reasonable incentive to actually play it. 

So you can be petty and gloat all you want, for all the good that does, but you are missing the point - so it's really not landing anywhere. 

But I already regret engaging back with this community again, so have a good one.

[Trejgon.9367]

On 2/29/2024 at 12:35 AM, SuavePuppy.2809 said:

The WvW set is literally a participation trophy

More like persistence check imo

[Danikat.8537]

6 hours ago, Shiva.2059 said:

Ah thank you, in keeping up to date I missed that one, seems to be a cake walk when you consider the 536 points available.  I am sure they had their reasons 😄

Masteries are specific to the area of the game they're given in. I have about 20 spare points in both HoT and PoF, but I can't use them for the tracks in other areas I haven't finished. It would make no sense at all to require previous areas masteries for something specific to SotO, and it would be pretty misleading when the expansion was advertised as having open-world legendary armour as one of it's features.

If it makes you feel better they'll need to put at least some points into the other mastery tracks to progress through SotO. For example you have to unlock the Heart of the Obscure, and the skyscale if you don't already have it and you'll likely need some of the updraft related masteries as well to be able to complete the SotO maps and the collections. I estimate they'd need about 45-50 points ideally.

But masteries were never designed to work the way you want them to. I get that they've replaced achievement points for some people as the nearest GW2 has to a 'high score' because it gives you a big shiny number next to your character's name, but that doesn't mean Anet uses them that way, or even intended to.

[Shiva.2059]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

 I estimate they'd need about 45-50 points ideally. But masteries were never designed to work the way you want them to. I get that they've replaced achievement points for some people as the nearest GW2 has to a 'high score' because it gives you a big shiny number next to your character's name, but that doesn't mean Anet uses them that way, or even intended to.

Thank you for your response you certainly have a greater understanding.  I guess what got me a little bothered is recently witnessing some tragic convergences and some meta squad stats.   But no doubt, weather by intent or lack of class understanding will obtain the desired result.  You are right there are a number of items that need to be earned rather than purchased.  Masteries may not have been intended that way although have found I cannot progress in certain area's without them.

[Zera.9435]

5 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Again, you seem to be too busy projecting your issue back then to see the point. This is not about people not wanting to play the content - this is people pleading for a reasonable incentive to play the content. 

Getting to pay thousands of Gold for something I already own, earned and paid for, just to get some okay skins along with it which I'm not planning to use on any of my characters, just for completions sake, is not a reward or incentive for me to play and grind out this expansion's content for. 

There will be cooler skins on the Cashshop for 1/20 of the converted Gold price any day anyway, as there usually is. That's not the issue. The issue is the game not giving me any reasonable incentive to actually play it. 

So you can be petty and gloat all you want, for all the good that does, but you are missing the point - so it's really not landing anywhere. 

But I already regret engaging back with this community again, so have a good one.

Then don't play the content. Obviously the armor is not a good enough reason for you to play.  It's okay if the content is not to your liking. Give your feedback to the devs so they can try to do better, but don't be coming here asking for alternate/cheaper/easier paths to the content's selling point that just came out days ago. If you want the skin, play the content. If that cost is not worth it, don't do it. I like the Envoy armor skin, but I hate raids. To me, that skin/functionality is not worth the time/effort required by raids, so I simply don't do it and I don't get it. It's that simple. Just as obby armor is not worth the cost for you, Envoy is not worth the cost for me.

[Zera.9435]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Ah, so it's the exact gatekeeping style some people did about legendary armor when Raids got introduced, only this time applied as some sort of grudge resolving from the other side of the discussion. And like then, that tribality approach and obsession about perceived "value" or "prestige" of "exclusives", the desire to somehow "get even" (i don't even know on whom) is something that makes me sad. It seems you never truly understood what those years of legendary armor discussion were all about, because it sure as kitten weren't about perpetuating the very same mindset they were trying to combat.

(and as for what you think this is going to accomplish, i assure you the effect will be the exact opposite - the decrease of motivation compared to the suggested alternative).

I'm assuming you only read my comment up until I used the word 'gloat' and you immediately click on the quote button and started typing away. If you read the rest, you would have seen that I said I understand that you guys don't think the cost is worth the skin. As a pure skin, sure it's probably not worth the heavy cost, just like Envoy armor as a pure skin for me is NOT worth doing raids and having to coordinate with people. Regardless, if you want all 3 skins, it's going to cost you nearly 11,000 ectos, nearly 100,000 essences, a couple hundred clovers, 18 map completions or lantern runs, and a couple hundred hours of playtime. To me the cost is worth not having to deal with raids and the extensive coordination with other players.

[Asum.4960]

16 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

Then don't play the content.

That's exactly what I've been doing though? That's my very point. I've pretty much quit the game for the last few months with SotO and just came back a bit to check out the new weapons with this patch. 

I don't mind sticking to other games - what I do mind is you trying to reframe the fact that players have nothing reasonable to do and go for in the game and therefor quitting as some sort of win and great retention strategy by Anet, out of some petty vengefulness. 

If you just want to gloat about having been catered to with this expansion because you still feel slighted by HoT (by other players, somehow), as you admitted, then enjoy that for whatever that does for you - but don't pretend it's anything more virtuous or deeper than that. 

1 hour ago, Zera.9435 said:

I like the Envoy armor skin, but I hate raids. To me, that skin/functionality is not worth the time/effort required by raids, so I simply don't do it and I don't get it. It's that simple. Just as obby armor is not worth the cost for you, Envoy is not worth the cost for me.

Nobody cares that you don't like 9 year old content either, and that's not relevant commentary to people giving feedback about having nothing reasonable to go for right now. 

14 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Now, it's our turn to 'gloat'.

Enjoy!

[Surelia.2651]

I have to say, looking at it all from the perspective of someone who has BiS armour in other MMOs, literally none of the "legendaries" we have here are even remotely in line with I would consider "prestige" sets, no matter where or how you got them here, since there literally ARE shortcuts to getting all of them if you understand how the game works.

You don't have to invest time fighting RNG for years, or coordinating prog raid groups to get everyone to hard mode completions (since that is where most items can be obtained) and most especially not have the painful experience of having to repeat the entire process again within just a few months because they all got trashed in a balance patch or simply replaced altogether by something else that was the newer and more shiney to chase down. 

That is the reality of most MMOs with competitive play.  It's not what we have here.  So to read this whinging and back and forth over "investment" and "worth" and "prestige," etc. is in a lot of ways, pretty laughable.  If you have any set of legendary armour, you should be glad that you aren't having to redo over and over, every few months, what it took to get it.

Anet has set up systems to give people some pretty cool things here through a variety of different ways so that in the end everyone can have their own "shiney" and use it as they see fit.  If you want to get a different "shiney," you have to do what Anet wants you to do to get it.  Asking them to create a shortcut to get any other set because you have another in your legendary armory is in direct opposition to their obvious intention: they want you to play the content that holds it.

As is, their idea of compromise was already made clear with the compensation handed out for legendary runes, so be glad we got that at least. 

[Zera.9435]

9 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

That's exactly what I've been doing though? That's my very point. I've pretty much quit the game for the last few months with SotO and just came back a bit to check out the new weapons with this patch. 

I don't mind sticking to other games - what I do mind is you trying to reframe the fact that players have nothing reasonable to do and go for in the game and therefor quitting as some sort of win and great retention strategy by Anet, out of some petty vengefulness. 

If you just want to gloat about having been catered to with this expansion because you still feel slighted by HoT (by other players, somehow), as you admitted, then enjoy that for whatever that does for you - but don't pretend it's anything more virtuous or deeper than that. 

Nobody cares that you don't like 9 year old content either, and that's not relevant commentary to people giving feedback about having nothing reasonable to go for right now. 

Enjoy!

Except that this whole thread is about people asking to get the new legendary for a reduced cost. You might be mistaking this thread for the one about general feedback for the Obby armor.

[Zera.9435]

55 minutes ago, Surelia.2651 said:

I have to say, looking at it all from the perspective of someone who has BiS armour in other MMOs, literally none of the "legendaries" we have here are even remotely in line with I would consider "prestige" sets, no matter where or how you got them here, since there literally ARE shortcuts to getting all of them if you understand how the game works.

You don't have to invest time fighting RNG for years, or coordinating prog raid groups to get everyone to hard mode completions (since that is where most items can be obtained) and most especially not have the painful experience of having to repeat the entire process again within just a few months because they all got trashed in a balance patch or simply replaced altogether by something else that was the newer and more shiney to chase down. 

That is the reality of most MMOs with competitive play.  It's not what we have here.  So to read this whinging and back and forth over "investment" and "worth" and "prestige," etc. is in a lot of ways, pretty laughable.  If you have any set of legendary armour, you should be glad that you aren't having to redo over and over, every few months, what it took to get it.

Anet has set up systems to give people some pretty cool things here through a variety of different ways so that in the end everyone can have their own "shiney" and use it as they see fit.  If you want to get a different "shiney," you have to do what Anet wants you to do to get it.  Asking them to create a shortcut to get any other set because you have another in your legendary armory is in direct opposition to their obvious intention: they want you to play the content that holds it.

As is, their idea of compromise was already made clear with the compensation handed out for legendary runes, so be glad we got that at least. 

Excellent points made here. You're right. There is no 'prestige', I just used the language in an effort to relate to the others who might view it in that light. I'm a staunch opponent of people asking to circumvent gameplay for legendary equipment, as is the case with this particular thread. Regardless thank you for reminding us of what the alternative could have been: Obby armor having higher stats than Envoy armor, thus making all their effort of getting it in the first place irrelevant.