Bring Renegade, Soulbeast, Weaver and Deadeye to a competitive level plz.

[Cynz.9437]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Weaver need a way to full attune fast without having to sacrifice one utility for that.

My suggestions:1) Create an F5 skill that full attunes

Or

2) Remove the cd to go from dual attunement to single one. Example you are on fire+water. Attunes to air, become air+fire and it goes on a 4s cd. Let the player click air again with no cd on air.

So basically remove the entire premise of weaver.

Weavers problem is it was designed almost entirely around sword and that many of the dual attune skills are worse than the number 3 skills they replace.

In terms of the other classes DD would have to be nerfed heavily to make deadeye competitive or make deadeye into something hilariously imbalanced.

Soul beast is just outperformed by druid and renegade? What role would it fill that isn’t already taken by scourge?

On weaver one can only have reliable and instant access to skills 1 and 2. On sword #2 are great. On other weapons 3, 4 and 5 are normally the best skills.

Waiting 3.5 or 7s to have access to one skill. A few examples:

Staff fire 4. That instant access to evade can be life saving.

DD fire 3 evade, same as above.

Focus earth immune.

Which is mostly what I put, there’s a few exceptions which you’ve mentioned (mainly staff) but the majority of #3 skills on dagger and sceptre mainhands are very useful defences. Focus is a special case but likewise you can also use the 1-3 skills of another attunement while keeping that invuln ready to stave off a burst or as counter to a burst during a time when you’re low on CDs.

Doesn’t change that weaver was clearly designed and balanced around sword and not existing weapons nor did the developers put good thought into the uses of the #3 skills on other weapons that the dual skills replaced. Instead most are generic do damage and inflict a condition associated with those 2 elements.

@Cynz,

as you say, DD would need to be nerfed even more to make DE competitive and that’s something considering the UC change.

I don’t think anyone wants to see DE buffed the way ANet would, 50% damage buff to auto attack and double tap/three round burst.

Even if they deleted DD, people would play core because DE is trash. But whatever, i am not surprised seeing this comment from you. Guessing people with same ideas sit in balancing team since this is what they tried to do: nerf DD to force thieves to buy PoF for DE just like they did with acro and DD. Except this time it didn't work. No buff to DE would help it, it needs complete redesign. DE is not competitive, simple as it is; no nerf to DD would make it magically viable.Admit it, the only reason you ask for DD nerfs is so you don't have to see any thieves in pvp, which i find rather funny considering how strong mirage is atm and that thieves shouldn't be much issue for you.

Maybe i should follow yours and Burnfall's example and ask to delete mesmers from game.

Ok I think I’ve poorly represented what I mean in the thread. I was saying DD would have to be nerfed a lot to make DE a better choice (even with DE buffs) because right now even with the UC change it is still the best mobility and the role is still the best option available to thief. I also mentioned no-one wants to see DE buffed because ANet would do something really dumb like increasing the damage of weapon skills that already do a lot of damage and upping the auto damage.

The main issue with DE is there’s no place for a long range sniper in PvP. It doesn’t really work that well and like weaver it’s clear DE was designed entirely around the rifle. Wouldn’t be the first time ANet missed the mark on an elite spec, DD was supposed to let thief be an on point brawler but instead only buffed it’s only role since PvP started.

I am not saying that DD needs a nerf, a redesign maybe but not a nerf and UC change I already said was a lazy implimentation.

Companies don't change completely something they already introduced. DD will be always acro v2.0 (which trust me, a lot of thieves weren't happy with on release).

DE will never be competitive (unless they make every rifle spell one shot target which is obviously just stupid) so only thing we can hope for is for new spec that maybe, just maybe will allow thief to be something else than decap/+1 pet - which is not a role, regardless what Anet thinks (a lot of classes can do it with pretty good success). I personally wished for rifle to be Ana equivalent from OW. Since rifle is off the table now, wtb bard spec to buff/heal teammates :open_mouth:

[apharma.3741]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Weaver need a way to full attune fast without having to sacrifice one utility for that.

My suggestions:1) Create an F5 skill that full attunes

Or

2) Remove the cd to go from dual attunement to single one. Example you are on fire+water. Attunes to air, become air+fire and it goes on a 4s cd. Let the player click air again with no cd on air.

So basically remove the entire premise of weaver.

Weavers problem is it was designed almost entirely around sword and that many of the dual attune skills are worse than the number 3 skills they replace.

In terms of the other classes DD would have to be nerfed heavily to make deadeye competitive or make deadeye into something hilariously imbalanced.

Soul beast is just outperformed by druid and renegade? What role would it fill that isn’t already taken by scourge?

On weaver one can only have reliable and instant access to skills 1 and 2. On sword #2 are great. On other weapons 3, 4 and 5 are normally the best skills.

Waiting 3.5 or 7s to have access to one skill. A few examples:

Staff fire 4. That instant access to evade can be life saving.

DD fire 3 evade, same as above.

Focus earth immune.

Which is mostly what I put, there’s a few exceptions which you’ve mentioned (mainly staff) but the majority of #3 skills on dagger and sceptre mainhands are very useful defences. Focus is a special case but likewise you can also use the 1-3 skills of another attunement while keeping that invuln ready to stave off a burst or as counter to a burst during a time when you’re low on CDs.

Doesn’t change that weaver was clearly designed and balanced around sword and not existing weapons nor did the developers put good thought into the uses of the #3 skills on other weapons that the dual skills replaced. Instead most are generic do damage and inflict a condition associated with those 2 elements.

@Cynz,

as you say, DD would need to be nerfed even more to make DE competitive and that’s something considering the UC change.

I don’t think anyone wants to see DE buffed the way ANet would, 50% damage buff to auto attack and double tap/three round burst.

Even if they deleted DD, people would play core because DE is trash. But whatever, i am not surprised seeing this comment from you. Guessing people with same ideas sit in balancing team since this is what they tried to do: nerf DD to force thieves to buy PoF for DE just like they did with acro and DD. Except this time it didn't work. No buff to DE would help it, it needs complete redesign. DE is not competitive, simple as it is; no nerf to DD would make it magically viable.Admit it, the only reason you ask for DD nerfs is so you don't have to see any thieves in pvp, which i find rather funny considering how strong mirage is atm and that thieves shouldn't be much issue for you.

Maybe i should follow yours and Burnfall's example and ask to delete mesmers from game.

Ok I think I’ve poorly represented what I mean in the thread. I was saying DD would have to be nerfed a lot to make DE a better choice (even with DE buffs) because right now even with the UC change it is still the best mobility and the role is still the best option available to thief. I also mentioned no-one wants to see DE buffed because ANet would do something really dumb like increasing the damage of weapon skills that already do a lot of damage and upping the auto damage.

The main issue with DE is there’s no place for a long range sniper in PvP. It doesn’t really work that well and like weaver it’s clear DE was designed entirely around the rifle. Wouldn’t be the first time ANet missed the mark on an elite spec, DD was supposed to let thief be an on point brawler but instead only buffed it’s only role since PvP started.

I am not saying that DD needs a nerf, a redesign maybe but not a nerf and UC change I already said was a lazy implimentation.

Companies don't change completely something they already introduced. DD will be always acro v2.0 (which trust me, a lot of thieves weren't happy with on release).

DE will never be competitive (unless they make every rifle spell one shot target which is obviously just stupid) so only thing we can hope for is for new spec that maybe, just maybe will allow thief to be something else than decap/+1 pet - which is not a role, regardless what Anet thinks (a lot of classes can do it with pretty good success). I personally wished for rifle to be Ana equivalent from OW. Since rifle is off the table now, wtb bard spec to buff/heal teammates :open_mouth:

I would be in tears of laughter if they made thief new elite spec bard, such a contrast between baseline thief being stealthy don’t get seen and bard being noisy see me in all my glory.

[Cynz.9437]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Weaver need a way to full attune fast without having to sacrifice one utility for that.

My suggestions:1) Create an F5 skill that full attunes

Or

2) Remove the cd to go from dual attunement to single one. Example you are on fire+water. Attunes to air, become air+fire and it goes on a 4s cd. Let the player click air again with no cd on air.

So basically remove the entire premise of weaver.

Weavers problem is it was designed almost entirely around sword and that many of the dual attune skills are worse than the number 3 skills they replace.

In terms of the other classes DD would have to be nerfed heavily to make deadeye competitive or make deadeye into something hilariously imbalanced.

Soul beast is just outperformed by druid and renegade? What role would it fill that isn’t already taken by scourge?

On weaver one can only have reliable and instant access to skills 1 and 2. On sword #2 are great. On other weapons 3, 4 and 5 are normally the best skills.

Waiting 3.5 or 7s to have access to one skill. A few examples:

Staff fire 4. That instant access to evade can be life saving.

DD fire 3 evade, same as above.

Focus earth immune.

Which is mostly what I put, there’s a few exceptions which you’ve mentioned (mainly staff) but the majority of #3 skills on dagger and sceptre mainhands are very useful defences. Focus is a special case but likewise you can also use the 1-3 skills of another attunement while keeping that invuln ready to stave off a burst or as counter to a burst during a time when you’re low on CDs.

Doesn’t change that weaver was clearly designed and balanced around sword and not existing weapons nor did the developers put good thought into the uses of the #3 skills on other weapons that the dual skills replaced. Instead most are generic do damage and inflict a condition associated with those 2 elements.

@Cynz,

as you say, DD would need to be nerfed even more to make DE competitive and that’s something considering the UC change.

I don’t think anyone wants to see DE buffed the way ANet would, 50% damage buff to auto attack and double tap/three round burst.

Even if they deleted DD, people would play core because DE is trash. But whatever, i am not surprised seeing this comment from you. Guessing people with same ideas sit in balancing team since this is what they tried to do: nerf DD to force thieves to buy PoF for DE just like they did with acro and DD. Except this time it didn't work. No buff to DE would help it, it needs complete redesign. DE is not competitive, simple as it is; no nerf to DD would make it magically viable.Admit it, the only reason you ask for DD nerfs is so you don't have to see any thieves in pvp, which i find rather funny considering how strong mirage is atm and that thieves shouldn't be much issue for you.

Maybe i should follow yours and Burnfall's example and ask to delete mesmers from game.

Ok I think I’ve poorly represented what I mean in the thread. I was saying DD would have to be nerfed a lot to make DE a better choice (even with DE buffs) because right now even with the UC change it is still the best mobility and the role is still the best option available to thief. I also mentioned no-one wants to see DE buffed because ANet would do something really dumb like increasing the damage of weapon skills that already do a lot of damage and upping the auto damage.

The main issue with DE is there’s no place for a long range sniper in PvP. It doesn’t really work that well and like weaver it’s clear DE was designed entirely around the rifle. Wouldn’t be the first time ANet missed the mark on an elite spec, DD was supposed to let thief be an on point brawler but instead only buffed it’s only role since PvP started.

I am not saying that DD needs a nerf, a redesign maybe but not a nerf and UC change I already said was a lazy implimentation.

Companies don't change completely something they already introduced. DD will be always acro v2.0 (which trust me, a lot of thieves weren't happy with on release).

DE will never be competitive (unless they make every rifle spell one shot target which is obviously just stupid) so only thing we can hope for is for new spec that maybe, just maybe will allow thief to be something else than decap/+1 pet - which is not a role, regardless what Anet thinks (a lot of classes can do it with pretty good success). I personally wished for rifle to be Ana equivalent from OW. Since rifle is off the table now, wtb bard spec to buff/heal teammates :open_mouth:

I would be in tears of laughter if they made thief new elite spec bard, such a contrast between baseline thief being stealthy don’t get seen and bard being noisy see me in all my glory.

Merry men had a bard-like character :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan-a-Dale

Also, i don't think DD is definition of sneaky either.

[Wolfric.9380]

Well it´s more bring less corrupts to scourge and reduce firebrands support and look into mesmers confusion spam or look at ther evades. Afther this three are brought in line we can look forward if more is needed. Maybe spellbreaker needs a slight adaption ...

[ilmi.5369]

@Wolfric.9380 said:Well it´s more bring less corrupts to scourge and reduce firebrands support and look into mesmers confusion spam or look at ther evades. Afther this three are brought in line we can look forward if more is needed. Maybe spellbreaker needs a slight adaption ...

Adding Holo to the list. Reduce some of its CC.

[Chaith.8256]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:Better idea: cull all of the game's bloat until professions have actual, respective identities and roles. Dante Must Die Mode: dealing damage and then popping an invuln or stealth is not an allowable class design.

Something like this.

At launch, Renegade would have had a viable niche. The reason it's dubious now is because trait line power creep, followed by the HoT and PoF specialisations, have steered the meta away from thoughtful gameplay towards rock-paper-scissors, where the outcome is decided by what you brought to the table more than how you use it.

Renegade would have been fodder even in vanilla. Perma ragdolled Warband members by slick shoes, warrior hammer, earthquake and updraft, then assassinated by S/D thief and Necro Shroud #2's single target chill & corrupt.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Chaith.8256 said:Renegade would have been fodder even in vanilla. Perma ragdolled Warband members by slick shoes, warrior hammer, earthquake and updraft, then assassinated by S/D thief and Necro Shroud #2's single target chill & corrupt.

It's called balance.As you can control and kill necro's shades you can do the same with revenant summons.

Oh wait.

[Chaith.8256]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Renegade would have been fodder even in vanilla. Perma ragdolled Warband members by slick shoes, warrior hammer, earthquake and updraft, then assassinated by S/D thief and Necro Shroud #2's single target chill & corrupt.

It's called balance.As you can control and kill necro's shades you can do the same with revenant summons.

Oh wait.

The point is that there is no era in PvP when Renegade would not be unplayable. Wtf were they thinking

[ArthurDent.9538]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Renegade would have been fodder even in vanilla. Perma ragdolled Warband members by slick shoes, warrior hammer, earthquake and updraft, then assassinated by S/D thief and Necro Shroud #2's single target chill & corrupt.

It's called balance.As you can control and kill necro's shades you can do the same with revenant summons.

Oh wait.

The point is that there is no era in PvP when Renegade would not be unplayable. kitten were they thinking

Kala and shortbow would be unplayable in any era but you can just use it as a filler third traitline with a Jalis shiro power build. Then it is just a weaker power herald in most ways but might have been useable pre power creep.

[Chaith.8256]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Renegade would have been fodder even in vanilla. Perma ragdolled Warband members by slick shoes, warrior hammer, earthquake and updraft, then assassinated by S/D thief and Necro Shroud #2's single target chill & corrupt.

It's called balance.As you can control and kill necro's shades you can do the same with revenant summons.

Oh wait.

The point is that there is no era in PvP when Renegade would not be unplayable. kitten were they thinking

Kala and shortbow would be unplayable in any era

I bet playing Devastation, Retribution, and Invocation would beat just the Renegade traitline. The Renegade F2-4 abilities are garbage in PvP, not worth the energy.

I think it's fair to judge a specializion with their class mechanics included (Legendary Renegade Stance and F2-4.)

[apharma.3741]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Renegade would have been fodder even in vanilla. Perma ragdolled Warband members by slick shoes, warrior hammer, earthquake and updraft, then assassinated by S/D thief and Necro Shroud #2's single target chill & corrupt.

It's called balance.As you can control and kill necro's shades you can do the same with revenant summons.

Oh wait.

The point is that there is no era in PvP when Renegade would not be unplayable. kitten were they thinking

Probably along the lines of “I know a really cool mechanic we’ve only ever used once! PHANTASMS!”

then the only sane person jumped out of a window or landed in a sugar crash for 6 months from all the candy corn.

[b k.1648]

The Mirage could have been an opportunity to expand the phantasm utility set to include additional useful options. But for some reason we can't have specializations actually specializing in an area that belongs to that class.

Nope, they have to give access to a skill type belonging to other classes instead, because reasons.

At this rate, phantasms won't start to do anything particularly interesting until they're given to the next Guardian specialization, or something equally inexplicable.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Rukia.9860 said:Deadeye is an incredibly cancerous gameplay and does not belong anywhere near ranked, it would need to sustain heavy nerfs and buffs in various places, basically a redesign.

correct!!

[Xillllix.3485]

@xDudisx.5914 said:Weaver need a way to full attune fast without having to sacrifice one utility for that.

My suggestions:1) Create an F5 skill that full attunes

Or

2) Remove the cd to go from dual attunement to single one. Example you are on fire+water. Attunes to air, become air+fire and it goes on a 4s cd. Let the player click air again with no cd on air.

Yes, it should be obvious to the dev that Weaver as it is currently has serious issues with some weapons. It makes no sense to have to wait 4 seconds just to get a magnetic aura up, terrible design. Your suggestion was proposed before and it's the best one (no cooldown if you reattune to an element.

Also Weaver's ultimate isnt fun to use. A stat boost nobody will notice... Yay.