How is Vindicator back to being HILLARIOUSLY BROKEN?!

[Ovark.2514]

Like i was on warrior, at HALF HEALTH and the vindi did some sort of insta-cast attack next to me and I was downed. WTF. Also it does insane damage and can't be hit ever. like, what? Can we rework this spec yet?

[Sarlan.7682]

did you play staff spb? also to answer your question: prob phase traversal for quickness and the port and either gs/sword/hammer burst. all of those weapons can easily manage to combo for 10k + dmg. though that was possible the whole time so it isnt exactly new.

[Sereath.1428]

People keep getting memed by hammer 4, huh?
It's very funny to watch the lobby arena and see people playing one-trick ponies like that and still clown on players.

Edited March 17 by Sereath.1428

[arazoth.7290]

How do people don't know what vindicator/revenant has as abilties, vindicator is out a few years already.

Unless you're new to fighting revenant, I can understand.

ps. all revenant builds have potential to do high burst, not as fast as certain other classes though

Edited March 15 by arazoth.7290

[Frequency.6407]

Reading the topic I couldn't tell if OP wanted vindi nerfed or buffed.

[Unknown.6851]

You wanna kill a vindi? Wait for them to use a dodge or 2 dodges and their hammer 3. Have a cc prepared at hammer 3s original location, there's an icd on what they can do after landing from that skill that is a perfect opportunity to CC lock them to death. They're gonna insta u in a 2v1 so don't put yourself in a 2v1 simply by simply decapping far. 

[Flowki.7194]

11 hours ago, Unknown.6851 said:

You wanna kill a vindi? Wait for them to use a dodge or 2 dodges and their hammer 3. Have a cc prepared at hammer 3s original location, there's an icd on what they can do after landing from that skill that is a perfect opportunity to CC lock them to death. They're gonna insta u in a 2v1 so don't put yourself in a 2v1 simply by simply decapping far. 

I agree, with WB you always have to check for stab and blocks within a sea of boon spam before CC/dps. Vindi for the most part, if you hit it between dodges it will get CCd or take heavy damage. You can essentially counter pressure a vindi within the first 10 second with timing, but you can't really counter pressure a WB, so I don't understand the vindi hate atm. Most of it seems to be hammer, it has high yet broadcast burst combos, but is not commonly used. If a few things line up and hit, its easily 25k dmg in a few seconds. Still, power mirage does heavy dmg while also spamming daze, already spoke about WB. Specs like DE, not as high spike burst but GL counter pressuring a spec that gets stealth on every dodge, along with a stealth combo on primary weapon+utility. SPB is similar, very difficult to counterpressure if contesting point, when it gets stab-counter-blocks, which essentially ends up like a DE that you can see, but not reliably hit/cc. SLB does a kitten ton of track+lock on/evade damage and stealth jump. Vindi, hit it between dodges, it can be locked down, as that is the case, then why should it do anything less than high damage given the other spec examples. Or plainly put, it can be counter pressured by any spec in melee range, which is where it does the most reliable dmg, but lets also make it do low damage? Who would ever play it then?

Edited March 15 by Flowki.7194

[Last Crab.6054]

22 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

Like i was on warrior, at HALF HEALTH and the vindi did some sort of insta-cast attack next to me and I was downed. WTF. Also it does insane damage and can't be hit ever. like, what? Can we rework this spec yet?

They are using a  skill assist bot that will remove the "aftercast" by forcing the server to see the next attack, basically they send the chain, and the server says yeah, that makes sense, which is even why the third not tracking skill hits you even after you went stealth as the first was being cast.

So as a warrior, you are toast.

[Sarlan.7682]

18 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

They are using a  skill assist bot that will remove the "aftercast" by forcing the server to see the next attack, basically they send the chain, and the server says yeah, that makes sense, which is even why the third not tracking skill hits you even after you went stealth as the first was being cast.

So as a warrior, you are toast.

what?! 🥴 i can assure you that even just decent revs can delete ppl if they get the opportunity to gank...like most dps specs right now

[Nepster.4275]

Not sure what is funnier, the fact that you somehow died on Warrior or that people just starting to abuse Hammer on rev xD

Remember when people came up with idiotic hammer builds on revenant like a month or two ago, memeing in lobby and stuff then somehow the meme became a thing

Tho, as other's have pointed it out, Rev could delete people even before but back then they did it with the shiro jump+Gs2+Gs3 or Gs3+Gs2 idk, something like that, basically hitting for >10k with protection

Edited March 16 by Nepster.4275

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Nope, never brought this up weeks ago to massive pushback that rev is the most underpowered class in the game, and I simply got "Merp'd".  

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Nope, never brought this up weeks ago to massive pushback that rev is the most underpowered class in the game, and I simply got "Merp'd".  

Well Merp is pretty good, so skillwise  difference there is too

[Shagie.7612]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Nope, never brought this up weeks ago to massive pushback that rev is the most underpowered class in the game, and I simply got "Merp'd".  

brother you get clapped in unranked on your hammer druid or whatever and then immediately say something about balance
doesn't even matter whether or not it's something good or you got cheesed

that's why you got clowned on

[Gotejjeken.1267]

42 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

brother you get clapped in unranked on your hammer druid or whatever and then immediately say something about balance
doesn't even matter whether or not it's something good or you got cheesed

that's why you got clowned on

Was I wrong? Nope. 

[Sarlan.7682]

12 hours ago, Nepster.4275 said:

Not sure what is funnier, the fact that you somehow died on Warrior or that people just starting to abuse Hammer on rev xD

Remember when people came up with idiotic hammer builds on revenant like a month or two ago, memeing in lobby and stuff then somehow the meme became a thing

Tho, as other's have pointed it out, Rev could delete people even before but back then they did it with the shiro jump+Gs2+Gs3 or Gs3+Gs2 idk, something like that, basically hitting for >10k with protection

the meme was good and we promoted it somewhat heavily enough ✌️😂

[Flowki.7194]

10 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Nope, never brought this up weeks ago to massive pushback that rev is the most underpowered class in the game, and I simply got "Merp'd".  

I was playing hammer rev at that time, and I was also playing condi/support before and after that time. Both here, and in-game, by rev mains and non-rev mains, it was laughed at, as was all of my condi vent builds (despite vent being the most powerful rev legend). The playerbase is just a bandwaggon, if it isn't meta it must be trash, if it isn't being used by a top streamer, its trash. The power co's on hammer are huge, capable of 12k+ crits (with invuln stacks), I said that multiple times even back then. Nobody listened becuase it isn't meta, now that it gets more use, people die to it, complaints. However, like I keep saying, doing damage with hammer is not reliable, it is very terrain (buggy) and range dependent, easy to dodge (try it youll see). Its CC is also very broadacast and impossible to land in moving fights. Now, compare that to other power specs, like current weaver, mirage, SLB, Scrapper, hollo, they all have far superior CC and damage application, and can all pump out the same or more damage in a similar time frame. So people need to be consistant in their nerf calls.. if you want to nerf hammer vindi, then it makes even more sense to also nerf a lot of the other power builds, that are flat out better in dmg/cc application.

 

I think most of the problem with rev is psychological. Somebody looks at a condi or hammer rev, thinks the win is in the bag, then get their face melted off becuase they don't know how to play against it. This was freequent even when I played core condi rev on vent/demon, the amount of plat players stroling over like it was a free win, then dying or having to run away, completely underesitimating the CC/sustain/dmg output. The same with hammer, people rushing into melee range thinking that suddenly counters the weapon, when in reality it actually makes the hammer skills harder to dodge.

Edited March 17 by Flowki.7194

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Vindi has always been broken. Its just not as broken as before when death drop would crit for 9k while being immortal by spamming utilities. Its actually pretty funny thinking about it. The same people defending vindi now are the same people who defended it back in beta saying its fine and you just need to L2P.

Edited March 17 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[arazoth.7290]

48 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Vindi has always been broken. Its just not as broken as before when death drop would crit for 9k while being immortal by spamming utilities. Its actually pretty funny thinking about it. The same people defending vindi now are the same people who defended it back in beta saying its fine and you just need to L2P.

Vindi at start was broken and has many times been nerfed. Power wise atm it isn't OP/overwhelming. Power wise current state is allright, but making it less or more would cause problems of the state it's in. 

[AlPower.2476]

It depends on the class, but between ranger, warrior, etc. I think rev is the least op

Yeah has a spam of dodges and 10k critics while dodging, and has not much skill learning ceiling, BUUUT condis eat them; they're easily killable in 2 vs 1 (for example, others fighters like good warrior staff players are not easily killable even in 2 vs 1)

Imo overall powercreep and cc spam should be tuned down slighlty in order to bring more build diversity than button smashers 10k dmg dealers with no more strategy than uga buga dps; or bunker cc spammers. But certainly Vindi is not the problem, is the consequence,

 

 

 

Edited March 17 by AlPower.2476

[arazoth.7290]

10 minutes ago, AlPower.2476 said:

and 10k critics while dodging, 

 

 

 

???

It can do max 5,5 k IF you have

•25 vulnerability stacks.

•Target is below 50% hp.

•You have used 1 dodge earlier to get extra damage modifier while below 100 endurance with traited.

•Full damage traited and no sustain, glass canon style zetker build.

•Target needs no toughness or defensive boons/damage reduction active.

Most of the times it does 3,5k in a 180 radius hit field. This is if the target has no damage reduction active, because it also doesn't meets many of the other requirements.

So if the player meets every requirement, they are probably already dead by the revenant or who else focuses them at the same time.

[AlPower.2476]

18 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

???

It can do max 5,5 k IF you have

•25 vulnerability stacks.

•Target is below 50% hp.

•You have used 1 dodge earlier to get extra damage modifier while below 100 endurance with traited.

•Full damage traited and no sustain, glass canon style zetker build.

•Target needs no toughness or defensive boons/damage reduction active.

Most of the times it does 3,5k in a 180 radius hit field. This is if the target has no damage reduction active, because it also doesn't meets many of the other requirements.

So if the player meets every requirement, they are probably already dead by the revenant or who else focuses them at the same time.

And with non meta class my max damage is 8k:

Zerker + Isgarren + Critic + Vuln stacks on a 15 secs cd skill, easily dodgable (and slow projectile, and can be reflected) + 10% damage bonus from having vigor + 10% damage bonus from trait + 10% damage bonus from not having full energy, with a cast time of 0.5 secs (and an very explicit animation). All of this while I only have 1 stunbreak. All of this while I have to switch between 4 kits, fighting people that can deal the same or more with various skills, not just one, with the same weapon without the need of planning combos.

Could I pick the meta version of my profession and fight better agaisnt vindicators, warriors, druids, etc? Yeah, but it's gameplay style is so different that I hate it (hit n run instead of a fighter).

I want everyone to be nerffed only for my class? No. I want everything low effort, boon spam, condi fiesta and poweer creep to be slithgly tunned down so ALL non meta classes could get fun too. (Meta is not the same as 'meta' section in metabattle).  Get fun ≠ Win MAT; Get fun ≠ Place Plat 2 or above.

 

Edited March 17 by AlPower.2476

[arazoth.7290]

19 minutes ago, AlPower.2476 said:

And with non meta class my max damage is 8k:

Zerker + Isgarren + Critic + Vuln stacks on a 15 secs cd skill, easily dodgable (and slow projectile, and can be reflected) + 10% damage bonus from having vigor + 10% damage bonus from trait + 10% damage bonus from not having full energy, with a cast time of 0.5 secs (and an very explicit animation). All of this while I only have 1 stunbreak. All of this while I have to switch between 4 kits, fighting people that can deal the same or more with various skills, not just one, with the same weapon without the need of planning combos.

Could I pick the meta version of my profession and fight better agaisnt vindicators, warriors, druids, etc? Yeah, but it's gameplay style is so different that I hate it (hit n run instead of a fighter).

I want everyone to be nerffed only for my class? No. I want everything low effort, boon spam, condi fiesta and poweer creep to be slithgly tunned down so ALL non meta classes could get fun too. (Meta is not the same as 'meta' section in metabattle).  Get fun ≠ Win MAT; Get fun ≠ Place Plat 2 or above.

 

From what I read "kits", "hit and run playstyle", you are talking about playing high dps scrapper?

If so, yes it doesn't has too high numbers, but the amount if many hits you can do in a burst makes it pretty high. It's hit and run playstyle but the amount of aoe damage you get into a teamfight + cc same time,  gives other advantages which you forget.

You have advantages to counter vindicator/revenant in a teamfight where it matters.

[AlPower.2476]

41 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

From what I read "kits", "hit and run playstyle", you are talking about playing high dps scrapper?

If so, yes it doesn't has too high numbers, but the amount if many hits you can do in a burst makes it pretty high. It's hit and run playstyle but the amount of aoe damage you get into a teamfight + cc same time,  gives other advantages which you forget.

You have advantages to counter vindicator/revenant in a teamfight where it matters.

I was thinking more in core engi that has been lately my main. Yeah; I could pick nade Scrapper, and Holosmith sword shield as I said. And in fact 've tried them and is easy to get kills in them (I mean agaisnt another meta build if the enemy isn't a veteran) . But as I said; i don't like to be forced to pick a meta option in order to kill another meta option. Ahd you're quite right, Vindicator isn't OP as op says. I know he can be easily killed in 2 vs 1. Also condis hits hard 'em (Funny I can doin' better with core condi engi agaisnt them than when I pick a more 'meta' like Scrapper or Dragon Hunter). I still can beat good players with meta builds in a non meta build; but every update it gets harder. And also I feel the game repetitive: Team comps, gameplay, etc. In the past you could see one shot berserkers trolling out; annoying condition soulbeasts (in a good sense), etc, Now all kitten games have only: The same warrior build, the same reaper build, the same ranger build, the same vindicator build, etc. Why do people would play berserker or herald if they could do it BY FAR better with their meta options?

I was pointing out that Power Vindicator is not a problem by itself, the problem is the direction of 'meta defining' classes that the game has taken. I miss when u could pick a non meta class and with effort beat almost everyone (yeah, we always had 1 or 2 broken classes per season) but lately I feel that the game is gettin' more out of control. Not only PvP.

WvW is full of boon spamming and berserkers. PvE has now everyone doin' +45k dps without effort, non high risk/high reward relations. And PvP, PowerCreep and CC spam

Edited March 17 by AlPower.2476

[Sereath.1428]

2 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

I was thinking more in core engi that has been lately my main. Yeah; I could pick nade Scrapper, and Holosmith sword shield as I said. And in fact 've tried them and is easy to get kills in them (I mean agaisnt another meta build if the enemy isn't a veteran) . But as I said; i don't like to be forced to pick a meta option in order to kill another meta option. Ahd you're quite right, Vindicator isn't OP as op says. I know he can be easily killed in 2 vs 1. Also condis hits hard 'em (Funny I can doin' better with core condi engi agaisnt them than when I pick a more 'meta' like Scrapper or Dragon Hunter). I still can beat good players with meta builds in a non meta build; but every update it gets harder. And also I feel the game repetitive: Team comps, gameplay, etc. In the past you could see one shot berserkers trolling out; annoying condition soulbeasts (in a good sense), etc, Now all kitten games have only: The same warrior build, the same reaper build, the same ranger build, the same vindicator build, etc. Why do people would play berserker or herald if they could do it BY FAR better with their meta options?

I was pointing out that Power Vindicator is not a problem by itself, the problem is the direction of 'meta defining' classes that the game has taken. I miss when u could pick a non meta class and with effort beat almost everyone (yeah, we always had 1 or 2 broken classes per season) but lately I feel that the game is gettin' more out of control. Not only PvP.

WvW is full of boon spamming and berserkers. PvE has now everyone doin' +45k dps without effort, non high risk/high reward relations. And PvP, PowerCreep and CC spam

Most definitely.

Very silly of some people to say that the game is finally very "balanced". When in fact it is ridiculously strict, with some classes only allowed to play one role, one specific way, and nothing more (meanwhile guardian).
Unless you are a guardian or a ranger, your list of competitive options is non-existent, as there is nothing else but one thing at most to play and be somewhat competitive. In the case of Revenant, it is to play glass Vindicator (Death Drop, Devastation) in order to kill targets before they can retaliate, and that's it. And it has been that way for over a year now (and no vind has won any mats either).

Boring.

Why do people think there are so few players left? Really just because of the lack of content?
No, the game just got boring.
Conquest as the only game mode is a joke and the main reason why the build variety is trash, since everything has been strictly "balanced" around it.

The direction of the game, if there is one, is indeed repulsive. (PvE is also an atrocity)

Edited March 17 by Sereath.1428

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Sereath.1428 said:

Unless you are a guardian or a ranger, your list of competitive options is non-existent, as there is nothing else but one thing at most to play and be somewhat competitive. 

That's the case for Guard and Ranger as well though. 

For guard you pretty much have to play Core support or DH (I've seen some FB but put that same as core really); WB isn't a meta pick.

Ranger only meta pick atm is bunker condi Druid.  They're nerfing it, so I'm not sure Ranger will have a meta pick after 19th--if it does, going to still be bunker Druid as that's literally the only thing left after all the damage nerfs in the power department.  

But like Thief has DD/DE, Engi has Scrapper/Holo, Ele has Tempest/Cata (with any Weaver you see able to wreck as well), Rev has Herald/Vindi, War has Berserker/Spb, Necro has Reaper/Scourge/Core...

Only maybe Mesmer has one in in Chrono.