Please nerf this abomination of a staff warrior ASAP

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 well i know that staff spellbreaker is slightly too good right now. As said i think a simple tourn up of the healing multiplier and tourn down of the basehealing might gonna be even enough (maybe also Nerf Sword 4). But i would not touch the whole spec in itself cause the spec is not the problem.

[Flowki.7194]

20 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 well i know that staff spellbreaker is slightly too good right now. As said i think a simple tourn up of the healing multiplier and tourn down of the basehealing might gonna be even enough (maybe also Nerf Sword 4). But i would not touch the whole spec in itself cause the spec is not the problem.

I disagree, the spec is the problem, which amplifies the staff issue. This is no differenct to the condi damage on ele scepter, the condi was not the issue. The issues was how that condi damage was made reliable through the combination of cata stability/sustain from aura signets, and the ramp up speed of air jade. In contrast, the scepter condi damage on tempest was NOT op, becuase tempest did not have stability procs and fast ramp up damage, that meant you could CC the tempest a lot more, and its slower ramp up meant you could much easier cleanse the fire ticks before they reached max stacks.

 

With SPB, the issue is that it already has a kitten ton of easy, baked in sustain when using dps weapons, and stability on stun which stops counter CC. That means the warrior sacrifices next to nothing in sustain while gaining mobility/gap closing and utility from staff. In terms of condi cata damage/sustain, they sacraficed nothing to stay in fire stance and pew pew. See what I mean?

Edited April 7 by Flowki.7194

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 4/5/2024 at 11:15 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Which warrior build would deserve to be A tier? 

Power berserker. 

I'm not joking. Power berserkers are absolute madmen and deserve the best in life -even if they mostly lack the IQ to actually appreciate it.

I also dream of a world of roamer bladesworns. Shoot gunblade behind your kitten, propel yourself from node to node. 

Edited April 17 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Power berserker. 

I'm not joking. Power berserkers are absolute madmen and deserve the best in life -even if they mostly lack the IQ to actually appreciate it.

I also dream of a world of roamer bladesworns. Shoot gunblade behind your kitten, proper yourself from node to node. 

Okay, I'm starting to like this guy.

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 well the thing is. The stability on CC is not part of Spellbraker but part of the defence line. So you do not need to rework a whole spec cause its too good with a traitline of another specialisation. This beeing said. The current Spellbreaker meta build do not even use this traitline. They are using Balance Stance instead witch got a fair 40 Seconds cooldown ^^

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 4/6/2024 at 1:08 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

I know kitten well there were plenty of plat level warriors stuck in gold, I faught many of them.

But you believe they deserve to be there because of the nature of their class.  Fortunately I don't think Anet agrees with that. 

Quote

Now, step upto cata, its more effective, but its also a lot more complex, with jade/combo manedgement, double utility from the ultimate etc. To unlock that greater effectiveness you need to learn another curve, and despite the haters, its a steep curve. What is the step up from core warrior to staff SPB, and what is the effectiv. What is the step up from core warrior to staff SPB, and what is the effectiveness increase

Alright, last thing.

Cata isn't infinitely more complicated than core ele. its one extra button, for several times more effectiveness because it instantly produces combo fields. It builds upon basic game knowledge you should already have. You don't have to use hammer, you can use d/d and be instantly effective. That complexity -youre- experiencing stems from trying to use a limited utility weapon in a situation that calls for flexibility. That is, ironically, the same issue warrior was experiencing up to recently (and continues to experience, on older weapons).

Your whole arc here is trying to arbitrarily balance the game because a weapon you want to use (hammer) on a spec you want to use(power cata) doesn't work specifically in the scenario you want to use it (outside of sidenoding). 

That situation isn't solved by reaching over into any specs you don't have investment in and trying to dictate what's right for them. It's also not a unique issue, or one that cata is disproportionately experiencing.

Disregard, no longer wish to argue about this. I can tell this will go back and forth forever and neither of us will be convinced, so let's just say we're diametrically opposed in ideals. Let Anet sort it out. 

Number of buttons available that you need to learn for your class being the primary dictator of how well your class does is a silly metric.  A class can have less available buttons but press them three times as often as other classes.  A class can have twice as many buttons but only realistically use half.  Having less buttons gives you time to read animations and behaviors but also makes you predictable, having more makes you flexible and adaptable, but also easily prone to error. All of those situations and their derivatives create the lifeblood of the game. 

Edited April 8 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

11 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 well the thing is. The stability on CC is not part of Spellbraker but part of the defence line. So you do not need to rework a whole spec cause its too good with a traitline of another specialisation. This beeing said. The current Spellbreaker meta build do not even use this traitline. They are using Balance Stance instead witch got a fair 40 Seconds cooldown ^^

Oh I didn't know, not been playing the game recenetly, but you know that actually makes it worse right? Staff SPB is now so powerful, it doesn't even need stability trait. Even condi cata still needed the stability, in-fact the whole reason it was busted was becuase of the stability, so staff warrior has surpassed condi cata in that regard.

 

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

But you believe they deserve to be there because of the nature of their class.  Fortunately I don't think Anet agrees with that. 

Alright, last thing.

Cata isn't infinitely more complicated than core ele. its one extra button, for several times more effectiveness because it instantly produces combo fields. It builds upon basic game knowledge you should already have. You don't have to use hammer, you can use d/d and be instantly effective. That complexity -youre- experiencing stems from trying to use a limited utility weapon in a situation that calls for flexibility. That is, ironically, the same issue warrior was experiencing up to recently (and continues to experience, on older weapons).

Your whole arc here is trying to arbitrarily balance the game because a weapon you want to use (hammer) on a spec you want to use(power cata) doesn't work specifically in the scenario you want to use it (outside of sidenoding). 

That situation isn't solved by reaching over into any specs you don't have investment in and trying to dictate what's right for them. It's also not a unique issue, or one that cata is disproportionately experiencing.

Disregard, no longer wish to argue about this. I can tell this will go back and forth forever and neither of us will be convinced, so let's just say we're diametrically opposed in ideals. Let Anet sort it out. 

Number of buttons available that you need to learn for your class being the primary dictator of how well your class does is a silly metric.  A class can have less available buttons but press them three times as often as other classes.  A class can have twice as many buttons but only realistically use half.  Having less buttons gives you time to read animations and behaviors but also makes you predictable, having more makes you flexible and adaptable, but also easily prone to error. All of those situations and their derivatives create the lifeblood of the game. 

I was also in there with core condi rev, its highly under rated, moderately difficult to play ( I can link you the build to try), but its condi so obvious issues. With that said, in no way did I think I should be killing equally skilled holos, power heralds, power vindis, power untamed, or scepter catas. They are harder specs, and more punishing specs for mistakes. However.. I often beat those specs of equal skill, becuase it is not until P1+ level where those specs really begin to shine, and show up the limitations of my core rev condi spec. SPB was a nightmare if the player was just average.. I also dueled them with staff, and intstantly seen how broken that kitten was, after dueling countless people on varied specs/skill levels.

 

It is not about the number of buttons in a numerical sense, you are vastly over simplifying it. More buttons means utility/dps/cc is spread out across attunements, weapons, stances, w/e. That means more concious choices on what weapon/attunment you have to be in to use X ability for Y situation and the weighing up of taking CD hits for attunements/weapons to get X ability. That adds complexity, and thought proccess, which opens up room for rewarding skill through mastery of consistancy, and mistakes through incompitancy, wrong attunement swap = lock out = punishment, which is easier to be locked out of with more bar options. Staff SPB obviously has some level of mastery.. but it doesnt take long to shut the door on making big mistakes with that spec, as with bladesworn. I will again make this comparison, I played hammer cata for months on end and never got close to feeling good enough to take on a 1v2. After a few hours of bladesworn, I won a 1v2, people were activiely running away from me.. on a spec that was 1/5th the difficulty of hammer cata. Im not joking, or trying to show off, its absolutely shocking to me that this level of descrepency exists in the game, and staff warrior is at that level. DE has this aslo, just spam 3, dodge, 1.. with such simply escape options, and again, after only a few hours, multiple people raging, chasing me all over them map, just for spamming 3 buttons.

 

The Jades on scepter cata come with a significant shift in difficulty compared to core. You need to use the correct combos for the situation, and most of the sustain is based around combos. That is a big shift from core, which is essentially massive spike burst, then just run away til reset. Cata has more staying power, but you have to learn how to use it, which isn't easy with 13k HP and nion instant death for the wrong combo. Core hit and run is easier to play, but it is also less effective, which makes sense, or why bother playing cata (which also doesnt really make sense any more, easier ways to do similar damage).

Edited April 8 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 Well the build itself is just basicly GS/Dagger, Shield warr but with Staff/Dagger,Sword instead...... and the only real diff is Staff one got more healing (himself and group) and a pull while GS one got more CC and overall more dmg xd. 

This been said ..... I now litterly killed staff warrs on every warr build i know including Power zerker...... i still think its for real mostly an issue that it got too good self and group healing for not using any healing stat xd

Edited April 8 by Myror.7521

[Flowki.7194]

16 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 Well the build itself is just basicly GS/Dagger, Shield warr but with Staff/Dagger,Sword instead...... and the only real diff is Staff one got more healing (himself and group) and a pull while GS one got more CC and overall more dmg xd. 

This been said ..... I now litterly killed staff warrs on every warr build i know including Power zerker...... i still think its for real mostly an issue that it got too good self and group healing for not using any healing stat xd

Yeah everything can be killed, I rememember farming condi catas on rev support becuase the build I had could easily cleanse its 1 condi type (mostly), but for the specs that didn't have constant cleanse, well.

Edited April 8 by Flowki.7194

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

This been said ..... I now litterly killed staff warrs on every warr build i know

This sadly aint rly a metric here....

Imagine i chimed into the FA Cata debate back in the day with:   "WELL.... i killed FA Cata on my Signettempest... so its not rly overpowered".

It just doesnt make any sense saying this.     Try killing StaffSpellbreaker on something that isnt another derivate of warrior.  

Its just very frustrating for alot of players (flowki) when you meet a build, that no matter how hard you try to slot counters on your profession... you SIMPLY.CANT.BEAT.IT.    

But thats just been the essence of gw2 balancing for a long time.     Your build isnt a designated, Anet approved, sidenoder?  Then you have borderline no chance to hold the node against the current meta sidenoder, which has been X-Y-Z Version of warrior for a quite some time now.

Bladesworn ->  Banner Spellbreaker!? -> Bladesworn again -> Condizerker -> Staff spellbreaker.         

Those have been the dominant sidenoders for the last  1-2 years.   (with a short period of FACata overshadowing literally every role and build, lul)

 

StaffSpellbreaker right now, is simply the easiest build to play, while still being one of, if not the most effective build out there. Regardless of all the flaws that come with it being a warrior build.

And that is Flowki´s problem here.  That being said, it also makes 0 sense to say:   My class harder to play... so it should be better.    soo... yeah.

Edited April 9 by Sahne.6950

[Myror.7521]

@Sahne.6950 i highly agree with you sir. I only say "I beat it with every possible warr build" cause its (in my eyes) the only class im realy good at playing. (Im also playing other classes from time to time but yea you get it).

I mean its not like i don't want them to nerf the staff spellbreaker build eather. But i don't want them to kill nerf it (or randomly nerfing a whole spec cause of 1 weapon that is too good imo or nerf another weapons for no reason cause all this is what Anet did multiple Times now)

 

Also i did remember the Bladesworn time ..... Holy was that build a facerole viesta xD

[Sahne.6950]

35 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

or randomly nerfing a whole spec

You know just as much as i do that this is exactly what will happen. x) Its Anet.

Edited April 9 by Sahne.6950

[Terrorhuz.4695]

48 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Sahne.6950 But i don't want them to kill nerf it

Maybe a support weapon should do support, instead of dps. Kind of like rifle mesmer. Just a thought.

[Sahne.6950]

8 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Maybe a support weapon should do support, instead of dps. Kind of like rifle mesmer. Just a thought.

I mean.... Hes got a point.

Edited April 9 by Sahne.6950

[Shagie.7612]

send warriors back to where they were at the end of pof again

[Sahne.6950]

17 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

send warriors back to where they were at the end of pof again

Sending them back into the realm of uselessness?

Edited April 9 by Sahne.6950

[Shagie.7612]

11 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Sending them back into the realm of uselessness?

yeah why not
was 2 years since the 2020 patch to EoD, and they've had a strong 2 years since then

time to hit the bottom of the roller coaster again

[Sahne.6950]

22 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

yeah why not

If you send a topdog into the shadowrealm, it only spawns the next FotM.

When establishing a clear counter to a FoTM, a healthy balance can be created.  Right now, Warrior has no real threat on the sidenode, besides a better Warrior.

Which is why its so dominant.

If (i know, will never happen) Renegade was a strong counter against war, you couldnt just mindlessly spam warrior, because the second you meet a renegade, you hit a brickwall.

Establishing clear counters is a healthier approach to balance than just nerfing, whatever is ontop of the foodchain. Sadly anet hasnt understood that yet.

If they butcher spellbreaker today, it will only spawn some weird Mace untamed build, or what not. And we are back again here, talking the same crap, but this time we type Untamed, instead of spellbreaker.

Spellbreaker can stay where it is... but there should be alternatives when looking for a viable sidenoder.

Its just bad balancing, when there is just 1 metaviable sidenoder build across the whole game.  That should never be the case.  But simply sledgehammer nerfing this one build, also has unknown consequences.

Remember, how the deletion of every ele build from the meta, spawned Swolebeast?  i remember that....

Edited April 9 by Sahne.6950

[Shagie.7612]

Just now, Sahne.6950 said:

Establishing clear counters is a healthier approach to balance than just nerfing, whatever is ontop of the foodchain. Sadly anet hasnt understood that yet.

We are way, waaaaay past the point of builds having strong and weak points. Sidenoders haven't done that forever. Largely because the way in which you buildcraft doesn't force you to make hard choices between what you want to excel at and what you're willing to sacrifice. Heck, some don't even HAVE the ability to make viable choices in that regard.

A build with a lot of cleansing should be relatively weak against strike damage, and one that has a lot of strike avoidance should struggle with condi, but that's not how it plays out because the way in which you counter those (or CC, or whatever other area you want to tackle) don't come from mutual choices.

I don't think extremely hard counters are great for the game, but it's really stupid that the hardest match ups in the game don't have ones in which they are similarly disadvantaged.

Game's always been cyclical, time to hit the bottom and someone else gets to have a fun 2 years, I don't make the rules unfortunately.

[Sahne.6950]

4 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

We are way, waaaaay past the point of builds having strong and weak points. Sidenoders haven't done that forever. Largely because the way in which you buildcraft doesn't force you to make hard choices between what you want to excel at and what you're willing to sacrifice. Heck, some don't even HAVE the ability to make viable choices in that regard.

A build with a lot of cleansing should be relatively weak against strike damage, and one that has a lot of strike avoidance should struggle with condi, but that's not how it plays out because the way in which you counter those (or CC, or whatever other area you want to tackle) don't come from mutual choices.

I don't think extremely hard counters are great for the game, but it's really stupid that the hardest match ups in the game don't have ones in which they are similarly disadvantaged.

Game's always been cyclical, time to hit the bottom and someone else gets to have a fun 2 years, I don't make the rules unfortunately.

i....  have to agree with this.   If we are real, the game indeed is cyclical.... and its been warriors turn for a VERY long time now...  

But one can dream 🌠 

Edited April 9 by Sahne.6950

[Myror.7521]

@Sahne.6950 well vindicator is some kind of a warr killer rn. But sadly vindi struggles against pretty mutch everything else xd

[Myror.7521]

@Terrorhuz.4695 well i mean yes but stuff does actually 4-6k dmg max maybe also 8 if your buffed enough. So maybe you wana nerf its dmg instead of its healing. This way you would be forced to Play an actually dps weapon set as second weaponset. Buuut i gues you would then do too low dmg If you Nerf it to around 0.001 xD

[Sahne.6950]

17 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Sahne.6950 well vindicator is some kind of a warr killer

Think so?    There rly isnt alot of good Vindiplayers in EU, atleast when i played yesterday.... 

But the ones that were there, had no chance against my superior: "i mash buttons that come off cooldown" tactic, i used on my StaffSpellbreaker.

Edited April 9 by Sahne.6950

[Myror.7521]

@Sahne.6950 well mechanicaly wise vindicator just spams Dodge and thats what counters warr (aside blind Spam and range of course)

[whooot.5784]

45 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Sahne.6950 well mechanicaly wise vindicator just spams Dodge and thats what counters warr (aside blind Spam and range of course)

It doesn't, war has just to full counter or block or dodge with the good timing, and blind isn't a couter anymore cause of defense, warrior has 3sec of resistence every dodges, resistence for 5sec when they bock and when they took a critic on them on 15sec cd, and they can cleanse blind billions time or just have to AA one time to get rid off it.

Edited April 9 by whooot.5784