PvP Discussion: Game Modes

[Shirlias.8104]

A 9v9 would be the best.GvG only.1x profession.

There won't be any problem at all, since everybody will have the same classes, and probably the same builds.Balance could still be a problem indeed, but given the party composition it will be way too easy to deal with.

[pinkglow.3429]

Is the spvp participation really so low that having separate queues would be a serious issue? Isn't that the biggest issue then and not separate queues? I think a 1-5 queue should be something you should consider. Perhaps most players queue solo because they can't play ranked with friends? At least I know that me and my 3 friends probably would play ranked every now and then if we could (if so, to progress for legendary back), but now we don't play spvp at all, which is one example of group wanting to queue that doesn't and I can only imagine we are not the only ones.

15v15 tournament sounds interesting, it will probably be hard if there is no queue option to it. I guess most groups will require spvp rating in order to be able to join, reducing possibility for more casual and for returning players that want to try a new game mode out.

I think you should consider a 10v10 or 15v15 mode where players actually can queue. And I don't know if you are afraid that this would reduce the number of players from playing conquest? I can imagine this medium size game mode would be popular actually, because it is quite popular in those mmos where this kind of game mode is available. You have to admit to yourself that conquest have not been very popular since the release of this game, and currently the (from what it seems) small playerbase that is playing it is either the few who enjoy it, or the ones who play it because there is no other option.

[Deth.1698]

@pinkglow.3429 said:Is the spvp participation really so low that having separate queues would be a serious issue? Isn't that the biggest issue then and not separate queues? I think a 1-5 queue should be something you should consider. Perhaps most players queue solo because they can't play ranked with friends? At least I know that me and my 3 friends probably would play ranked every now and then if we could (if so, to progress for legendary back), but now we don't play spvp at all, which is one example of group wanting to queue that doesn't and I can only imagine we are not the only ones.

15v15 tournament sounds interesting, it will probably be hard if there is no queue option to it. I guess most groups will require spvp rating in order to be able to join, reducing possibility for more casual and for returning players that want to try a new game mode out.

I think you should consider a 10v10 or 15v15 mode where players actually can queue. And I don't know if you are afraid that this would reduce the number of players from playing conquest? I can imagine this medium size game mode would be popular actually, because it is quite popular in those mmos where this kind of game mode is available. You have to admit to yourself that conquest have not been very popular since the release of this game, and currently the (from what it seems) small playerbase that is playing it is either the few who enjoy it, or the ones who play it because there is no other option.

Was going to mention that the under-representation of duo-queueing may be due to players only being able to play with one other person. In ranked, its basically hit or miss because you don't know who you are getting matched up with. With unranked, duo/team-queueing doesn't really matter as much.

[Scary.8034]

I don't believe adding new game modes should be a priority at all, as 5v5 conquest is what the matchmaking is build for, that is what the balance is aimed at and all current rewards are attached to that mode.

Now you say you're scared of splitting the player base, as a reason to not add more.

In my opinion the people that would play 2v2 arenas or other more arcady game modes ( a la arcade mode in overwatch ) would not be really played by the same kind of players. Sure there would be some overlap, but I actually think, that if you were to had more fun casual pvp modes it could have the benefits of maybe reconciliating some players with pvp.

[Ledavi.1803]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:To put things in perspective, 92% someone queues it's queuing solo. The team queue would have horrendous wait times. And when a match finally popped, difference in team skill would likely be rage inducing.

I have always suspected a high percentage of solo q (obviously increased with the recent change to duo q restrictions in ranked), and that the "I only play with friends, solo queue is killing PvP" argument is exaggerated. Is there a trend one way or another over the past 4-5 seasons?

[Kraitan.8476]

''The long and short of it is that we feel that splitting the population right now is really risky and could have a major negative impact on the game.'' On the other hand, adding some mode like possibly a 15v15 which doesn't come down to holding nodes, could maybe DRAW people to pvp. I played 10k games but I can fully understand any new player getting into pvp, starting with conquest, getting rekt once or twice and disregarding the entire idea of pvp because they did not enjoy the confusing toxic mode called conquest. That being said, could we maybe have an unranked queue for 2v2s? It's impossible to find enemies unless you get online with 3 friends but that gets boring pretty fast. It's as dead as stronghold atm. Third question: when can we expect any new map for conquest? Over the last 5 years it hasn't been much and it's been a while since the last map was introduced so I'm wondering if there's anything in the works?

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Ben is it possible to use existing maps for 10v10? I feel like after removing the cap points eternal coliseum can be a decent size map for 10v10. It has some elevations, small amount of LoS but somewhat enough for portal/veil like in WvW and good range for diverse tactics.

[Morwath.9817]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Courtyard got an update a long while back. But since it's in custom arenas, we never got a lot of feedback on it.

Quaggan doesn't remember, when he played in custom arena last time, probably years ago...

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:It's not just the team UI, but the scoreboards.

Are scoreboards important at all?Quaggan want to PvP, not to study graphs, nor he cares who did most healing etc...

[Paul.2054]

I think you are best off focusing on the 2v2 or 3v3 game modes with an aim at possibly putting more support behind it in the future. I believe these game modes have a lot more crossover for players from WvW especially and will be much more appealing to them as it is more along the lines of what they actually do when they play. A lot of the negative comments I hear when I talk to people about why they don't play PvP usually revolve around Game Mode/Cap Points and rewards so taking a stab at 2v2s and 3v3s could help to bring in more people and give some people a more enjoyable format to play in.

From purely a balance stand point I really suggest you go for no elite spec stacking in 2v2s and 3v3s if you do start to give it more official support unless your balance schedule becomes more swift. The issue in this game with 2v2s and 3v3s is we have no time mechanic to reduce bunker comps that aren't unfair to other comps that opt on the safer tankier side within a reasonable limit. I've heard of talks that more DPS wins the game in stalemate or something of the like but I really feel like you're going to have to find a more unique solution to stalling so people don't lose to non stall comps simply because they can't finish people and do less damage based purely on specs.

Overall if I were to think from an outsiders perspective to PvP and not even Guild Wars 2 as a whole I really think a 2v2 or 3v3 game mode would be much more appealing overall other than the fact there will likely be no solo queue system for it. Cap points tend to make certain builds and strategies possible that aren't fun to play against but only possible because of the game mode and deathmatch game modes simple concentrate on the fun(theoretically) of fighting against people with the more immersive combat of an MMO rather than winning strategically.

[Xillllix.3485]

10v10 GvG is really interesting. Rewards tied to Guild missions and a rank/ladder would be nice. The map needs to be bigger and I think there should be a guild queue. Your not going to split the player base, for example I have already lost all interest for conquest but would happily GvG.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Paul.2054 said:I think you are best off focusing on the 2v2 or 3v3 game modes with an aim at possibly putting more support behind it in the future. I believe these game modes have a lot more crossover for players from WvW especially and will be much more appealing to them as it is more along the lines of what they actually do when they play. A lot of the negative comments I hear when I talk to people about why they don't play PvP usually revolve around Game Mode/Cap Points and rewards so taking a stab at 2v2s and 3v3s could help to bring in more people and give some people a more enjoyable format to play in.

From purely a balance stand point I really suggest you go for no elite spec stacking in 2v2s and 3v3s if you do start to give it more official support unless your balance schedule becomes more swift. The issue in this game with 2v2s and 3v3s is we have no time mechanic to reduce bunker comps that aren't unfair to other comps that opt on the safer tankier side within a reasonable limit. I've heard of talks that more DPS wins the game in stalemate or something of the like but I really feel like you're going to have to find a more unique solution to stalling so people don't lose to non stall comps simply because they can't finish people and do less damage based purely on specs.

Would be great if they decided to switch from 5v5 to 3v3 and 2v2 ( i discussed on another thread about the nearly impossible possibility, and here we are... maybe i will have to take everything back, and i will extremely glad :smiley: ).

[Kraitan.8476]

Hi! I wanted to ask: are there plans for any new game modes? mostly importantly: Modes with BIGGER maps and more players like 10v10 15v15. Where the objective is NOT to hold a small circle for a period of time. I know there is the argument: don't know how it will go, don't want to split the playerbase but to be honest, at some point something has to be done. Conquest can get stale, breeds toxicity and favors certain builds over others. I think in the end it comes down to either 1) providing the community with different game modes, letting them play the kind of pvp they prefer (be it conquest, 2v2s, larger scale 15v15) and grow the scene that way. The other option as I see it is 2) focus heavily on conquest and hope the scene can grow from there (which it hasn't & won't is my prediction). PLEASE give us other modes. Doesn't necessarily have to involve ranked aswell but a lot of us are looking for fun pvp without games being lost because 1 of your 4 teammates plays like shit & decides to afk. I know with a 15v15 an afk player will still suck. But the impact and chances of losing the game from that point on will be lowered significantly.

[Sinid.7460]

2v2 or even 3v3 can be fun with some combinations, but you do realize that it will end up being necro + support vs necro + support if you want to win these? It will be very easy to have stale matchups or annoying matchups that are decided before you even get to play because of the "rock, paper, scissors" factor. These will never work without straight up banning sustained builds from entering these.

[Michael.1406]

Make duel bottom in all areas(pve, wvw and pvp) - only for 1v1 duels (and a disable button for the mode in settings) not usable in different modes, raid, fractals and instances etc.

2v2 maps you already have and the ones soon to be released but make a unranked Que for it (possible 3v3 if 2v2 shows succesful)

10 vs 10 or 15 vs 15, if you say the game can only support 10 vs 10 then it is clear that would be a lot easier to make than 15vs15 but still make a Que for it, otherwise will some of the population never even notice its existence

[pinkglow.3429]

@Sinid.7460 said:2v2 or even 3v3 can be fun with some combinations, but you do realize that it will end up being necro + support vs necro + support if you want to win these? It will be very easy to have stale matchups or annoying matchups that are decided before you even get to play because of the "rock, paper, scissors" factor. These will never work without straight up banning sustained builds from entering these.

Necro + supp would also be the flavor of the month, next month depending on balance some other setup would be the OP setup, It is hard to balance arena, while on the other hand balance for battlegrounds (10v10, 15v15) is much easier. I recall Blizzard who has had issues with arena balancing, and motivating that some specs aren't viable with: "The spec is balanced for rated battleground". And GW2 would not even need rated battlegrounds, just unranked would be fun enough for people.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

@Sinid.7460 said:2v2 or even 3v3 can be fun with some combinations, but you do realize that it will end up being necro + support vs necro + support if you want to win these? It will be very easy to have stale matchups or annoying matchups that are decided before you even get to play because of the "rock, paper, scissors" factor. These will never work without straight up banning sustained builds from entering these.

We do have some balance concerns with 2v2's. I think when we have our first special 2v2 tournament, it will teach us a lot.

[Xstein.2187]

I suppose I don't quite understand how you expect other game modes to be as popular or grow if you only support them through tournaments. What about people who want to play other game modes but don't want to do it in a tournament or mostly just want to do it for fun?

I also know this will probably get shut down, but it would be fun seeing a game mode that does not allow condition damage or condition duration stats. I could see the best meta builds being drastically different for such a game mode.

[Auriam.8745]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Courtyard got an update a long while back. But since it's in custom arenas, we never got a lot of feedback on it.

Has the thought of a temporary unranked queue for game modes like courtyard or 2v2 ever come up to test popularity/feedback? It seems like from this statement that anything in custom arenas just doesn't get a lot of feedback in general and automatically makes it look like it's not popular. 2v2 came out and was immediately set to custom arena only, so it almost seems like it's already been sent to it's own grave without giving it a chance. I know there are special tournaments upcoming for the game modes but wouldn't just an unranked queue get a wider spread of players?

Thank you for starting these feedback threads!

[huehuehueh.5106]

Deathmatch tournament? Capture the flag or protect the president game modes (a player would assume the role of the lord for 150 points)?

[witcher.3197]

Conquest

I love this gamemode, always have. BUT this is the single worse gamemode I can think of for a solo/duo experience, it's absolutely soulcrushing without an organized team, and no PvP game ever became successful with it.

There are 2 things holding back PvP in this game: balance and Conquest.

I'd suggest making 3v3 the default solo/duo gamemode and keeping conquest for ATs. At least give it a test run by replacing conquest with 3v3 in off-season, even if just for a week. Those who don't like it can play Conquest in unranked for the time being.

[Hot Boy.7138]

what's the point of this thread if you're starting it by letting us know from the very beginning that you're not going to impelement new game modes. I came here to tell you that we NEED new game modes that is supported by a queue, and first thing I see is that.

Conquest is stale. Beyond stale.Introduce a 10 v 10 Capture the Flag.Look at what World of Warcraft has done with battlegrounds and copy their formula. Every map is a different game mode. Warsong Gulch, Alterac Valley, Arathi Basin, etc. are all amazing and fun.

But the fact that you started this entire discussion with "we STILL have no current plans to" do this or that cause it will split the community etc is extremely disheartening.

Build it and they will come. Build new game modes, on bigger maps, and people will come. It won't be a big deal to split the community once we have new game modes because more people will be playing. But if you don't want to build new game modes cause the pvp community is too small, it will continue to be small and it will shrink.

So create new game modes, support it with a queue. And market it, properly.

[breno.5423]

"We still have no current plans to support additional game modes with a queue."

Well... I guess you can close this topic after this afirmation. The only game mode i would be interest is the 2x2 mode with a queue, or a 15 vs 15 (GvG) mode to the guilds. The "guild" wars is missing guild contents, which is almost a joke.

[Sinid.7460]

@witcher.3197 said:Conquest

I love this gamemode, always have. BUT this is the single worse gamemode I can think of for a solo/duo experience, it's absolutely soulcrushing without an organized team, and no PvP game ever became successful with it.

There are 2 things holding back PvP in this game: balance and Conquest.

I'd suggest making 3v3 the default solo/duo gamemode and keeping conquest for ATs. At least give it a test run by replacing conquest with 3v3 in off-season, even if just for a week. Those who don't like it can play Conquest in unranked for the time being.

What? The game is literally designed around conquest, where classes are only viable by having different roles. And by not having conquest in solo queue, this would only lead to a bigger skill disparity because the lower tier players would never have a chance of practising conquest to catch up to more experencied players. This is such a bad idea in so many ways. It would be the same as going to Counter Strike and ask them to forget the main mode and turn it into something else.

[cyberwolf.5830]

How do you train for 2v2 fights if there's only tournament?Play once per day in the tournament, lose and go out, wait another day. Where's the fun in that?

[Smarazzinger.1403]

@cyberwolf.5830 said:How do you train for 2v2 fights if there's only tournament?Play once per day in the tournament, lose and go out, wait another day. Where's the fun in that?

If they change the ATs with a swiss style tournament (like their planning to do) ATs will last more than one game and could become a place where u can really train ur team skills.