Remove forced movement from the game.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I never said they were the same. I said people have stated that they find playing alacbender not as fun as it could be due to boon sharing being tied to a movement skill. I happen to agree.

Then you just opted out for the "need target for boon uptime!" strawman that's completely irrelevant to anything said in this thread or comment chain (on top of wrongfully claiming movement skills are needed for qscrapper to do its job and it's totally not about min-maxing), ok.

Edited April 13 by Sobx.1758

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Then you just struggled to make a movement-skill relevant argument and opted out for the "need target for boon uptime!" strawman that's completely irrelevant to anything said in this thread or comment chain, ok.

You asked what was problematic about the skill for a certain build. I listed the problems people tend to face with it. No more. Comments are allowed to have tangential information. Stop being so argumentative. I'm not trying to win a debate with you. Only discuss people's opinions.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

You asked what was problematic about the skill for a certain build. I listed the problems people tend to face with it. No more. Comments are allowed to have tangential information. Stop being so argumentative. I'm not trying to win a debate with you. Only discuss people's opinions.

You claimed qscrapped needs movement skills to work and it's not about min-maxing. It's false, it is about min-maxing and if that's not the goal then you do not need to keep spamming movement skills to do the job.
Now you dropped this one and reverted to "but alacbender?".  Well, ok, I asked what's exactly problematic about alacbender movement skills, to which you basically dodged the question and instead reverted into complaint about uptime being bound to needing an active enemy, so it suffers during downtime. Sure, except that doesn't answer the question nor is it related to any movement skills being problematic at all. It's not "being argumentative", it's discussing the topic instead of dodging and weaving like you're attempting to do for a few posts now. I'm also discussing opinions, if I wasn't doing that, I wouldn't try asking you what's exactly problematic about alacbender movement skills.

Edited April 13 by Sobx.1758

[Gaiawolf.8261]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You claimed qscrapped needs movement skills to work and it's not about min-maxing. It's false, it is about min-maxing and if that's not the goal then you do not need to keep spamming movement skills to do the job.
Now you dropped this one and reverted to "but alacbender?".  Well, ok, I asked what's exactly problematic about alacbender movement skills, to which you basically dodged the question and instead reverted into complaint about uptime being bound to needing an active enemy, so it suffers during downtime. Sure, except that doesn't answer the question nor is it related to any movement skills being problematic at all. It's not "being argumentative", it's discussing the topic instead of dodging and weaving like you're attempting to do for a few posts now. I'm also discussing opinions, if I wasn't doing that, I wouldn't try asking you what's exactly problematic about alacbender movement skills.

I stand by that people tend to find tying alacrity to Flowing Resolve less fun both due to its forced movement and need to hit targets to function. No, those two problems are not related. They just exist together, and both have been called problematic.

Sorry for giving too much information and for jumping on the quickscrapper bandwagon. I may have misread a prior post about scrapper skills.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I stand by that people tend to find tying alacrity to Flowing Resolve less fun both due to its forced movement and need to hit targets to function. No, those two problems are not related. They just exist together, and both have been called problematic.

Sorry for giving too much information and for jumping on the quickscrapper bandwagon. I may have misread a prior post about scrapper skills.

I don't have -and at no point had- a problem with "you giving too much information" or "providing tangential information", because that's not even what you did. What you did was avoid the question/s and pivot into a completely different claim not related to the discussed topic or even this particular comment chain. Stop trying to misrepresent what you kept doing here.

I disagree with your apparent conviction that the change is needed "because someone managed to call it problematic at some point". WB's movement skills are either targeted or made well enough to not overshoot the target as far as I'm aware from using them and seeing how you didn't provide any explanation to my question, I can only assume you're also aware of that.

Edited April 13 by Sobx.1758

[draxynnic.3719]

On 4/13/2024 at 8:19 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

No, spamming movement abilities on qscrapper is not required for it to work.

It isn't? I mean, I guess you could go full Diviner and fill your build with the shortest-recharge blast finishers you can find, but since the DPS numbers are going to be balanced based on what the Snowcrows build is capable of doing, if you're making big sacrifices to your DPS potential, your DPS is naturally going to tank.

And the Snowcrows build gets the lion's share of its quickness by using Rocket Charge.

Shortbow healscrapper can get away without it, but if we meant healscrapper we'd say healscrapper, not quickscrapper.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

On 4/16/2024 at 2:12 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

It isn't? I mean, I guess you could go full Diviner and fill your build with the shortest-recharge blast finishers you can find, but since the DPS numbers are going to be balanced based on what the Snowcrows build is capable of doing, if you're making big sacrifices to your DPS potential, your DPS is naturally going to tank.

And the Snowcrows build gets the lion's share of its quickness by using Rocket Charge.

Shortbow healscrapper can get away without it, but if we meant healscrapper we'd say healscrapper, not quickscrapper.

So the way I see it, the way I understand it, is that this is only really a problem is because the meta right now and for the last....years....is so centered on Quickness and Alacrity basically to the exclusion of everything else that it's become the crux of this problem. It's QuickScrapper. it has a single purpose: Give quickness. And that movement aspect of Rocket Charge gets in the way of giving Quickness. So honestly we could strip the damage out of it, the movement out of it, we could essentially remove every aspect of that skill so that when you hover over it it just says "Quickness: X:XX seconds, 5 Targets" and there you go, QuickScrapper happy. But that's not what it was for.

This is the crux of my arguement about Alacrity and Quickness. I never cared about them until they became literally the only thing that mattered anymore and like a black hole started to twist the whole game around them. It's not just that Snowcrows is trying to edge out that extra 0.8 DPS by keeping Alacrity up for 0.1 more seconds. They're crazy, whatever. It's that because of them and their benchmarks now every raid group demands that you play that way, and every strike group, and even the balance team is building around that now for reasons I cannot fathom.

In a way I think it's funny. I said before several times that Alacrity should have stayed with mesmers and everyone recoiled talking about the dark days. The time when the only mesmer allowed was chrono and you weren't allowed to play anything else. So then they exported Alacrity and Quickness to every profession, and where has that landed us? Congratulations, you are no longer pigeon-holed to playing AlaChrono. Now you can play whatever flavor of Alacrity or Quickness build you want, so long as it gives Alacrity or Quickness. I'm reminded of that old Henry Ford quote when he started to mass produce the Model T car: "You can have it in any color you want so long as it's black". That's what we've devolved into here, and people are actually complaining because that hasn't been done ENOUGH.

I dunno what the solution is. If I could rip those boons out of the game with hanging wires and dangling strings of code I would, although I'll admit that 100% quick uptime is about the only way to make Mesmer Rifle tolerable. I just know that the premise of this thread isn't the solution.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

8 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

So the way I see it, the way I understand it, is that this is only really a problem is because the meta right now and for the last....years....is so centered on Quickness and Alacrity basically to the exclusion of everything else that it's become the crux of this problem. It's QuickScrapper. it has a single purpose: Give quickness. And that movement aspect of Rocket Charge gets in the way of giving Quickness. So honestly we could strip the damage out of it, the movement out of it, we could essentially remove every aspect of that skill so that when you hover over it it just says "Quickness: X:XX seconds, 5 Targets" and there you go, QuickScrapper happy. But that's not what it was for.

This is the crux of my arguement about Alacrity and Quickness. I never cared about them until they became literally the only thing that mattered anymore and like a black hole started to twist the whole game around them. It's not just that Snowcrows is trying to edge out that extra 0.8 DPS by keeping Alacrity up for 0.1 more seconds. They're crazy, whatever. It's that because of them and their benchmarks now every raid group demands that you play that way, and every strike group, and even the balance team is building around that now for reasons I cannot fathom.

In a way I think it's funny. I said before several times that Alacrity should have stayed with mesmers and everyone recoiled talking about the dark days. The time when the only mesmer allowed was chrono and you weren't allowed to play anything else. So then they exported Alacrity and Quickness to every profession, and where has that landed us? Congratulations, you are no longer pigeon-holed to playing AlaChrono. Now you can play whatever flavor of Alacrity or Quickness build you want, so long as it gives Alacrity or Quickness. I'm reminded of that old Henry Ford quote when he started to mass produce the Model T car: "You can have it in any color you want so long as it's black". That's what we've devolved into here, and people are actually complaining because that hasn't been done ENOUGH.

I dunno what the solution is. If I could rip those boons out of the game with hanging wires and dangling strings of code I would, although I'll admit that 100% quick uptime is about the only way to make Mesmer Rifle tolerable. I just know that the premise of this thread isn't the solution.

That's really the problem here.The devs are balancing around the boon meta and using Snowcrows benchmarks to adjust skills. I think they're trying to develop interesting ways for builds and specs share boons, but we don't always find those mechanics fun, or even want the boon meta at all.

[Leo G.4501]

Are you saying you don't like the boon-ball?

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

With such a reductionist view then the game can easily be summarized as picking your favorite color out of 9 for smashing buttons. Why Alac/Quick builds are such a crime, when at the end of the day all 9 colors want to do exactly the same things? Or are we just biased about Alac/Quick builds simply because we can’t handle being told to get good?

Of course that’s not the case, classes do want to achieve the same goals but the “how” and by extension the “limitations” are what differentiate them. In the same competition for Quickness, Herald can spread boons passively in a larger-than-normal radius but has 0 ranged capabilities; Chrono is fully ranged and brings a lot of flexibility, but needs an active hitting target for the boons; Firebrand also brings a lot of utilities but the damage is unreliable from the clunky management of an archaic trait; Harbinger brings the most reliable damage, but doesn’t bring any other boons or support; likewise I presume the forced movement is a downside to quick Scrapper.

All with different strengths and weaknesses; artificial as it may be but it’s still a very healthy diversity. I can easily write something similar for Alac based on what I’ve played. The point still is, there are quite a lot of varieties to be appreciated that generalizing them as the same is quite wild.

For the actual topic itself, yes forced movements are annoying, but there are enough movement-assisted options that proposing for movement skills to be deleted is absurd. From my end I do get annoyed with Phase Retreat keep porting me away from the group stack, but I’m not stupid enough to use it to yank myself off a cliff or into a death puddle. If you keep yanking yourself into a death puddle, that’s really a skill issue and maybe learn the mechanics better to time it more correctly. 

Edited April 18 by ZephidelGRS.9520

[Gaiawolf.8261]

7 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

Are you saying you don't like the boon-ball?

I'm not sure if this is directed at my comment, but yes! That's exactly what I'm saying and why I commented that a fixed movement skill like Flowing Resolve is commonly considered problematic for a support build. It seems quickscrapper has the same problem with the kitten rockets!

I mean, support skills that push you out of the melee boonball are just so much fun, right? LOL.

[Sobx.1758]

On 4/16/2024 at 8:12 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

It isn't? I mean, I guess you could go full Diviner and fill your build with the shortest-recharge blast finishers you can find, but since the DPS numbers are going to be balanced based on what the Snowcrows build is capable of doing, if you're making big sacrifices to your DPS potential, your DPS is naturally going to tank.

And the Snowcrows build gets the lion's share of its quickness by using Rocket Charge.

Here's the question: did you read the comment chain you're responding to? Because the point was that you don't need to keep spamming movement skills if you're not min-maxing your personal dps there (1). To which he answered that it's not about min-maxing (2). To which you're now basically answering..... "but snowcrows build/numbers!". Do you notice where you got a little lost here?

On 4/16/2024 at 8:12 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

but if we meant healscrapper we'd say healscrapper, not quickscrapper.

Yes, if I meant healscrapper, I'd say healscrapper. But I'm saying quickscrapper, because I don't mean healscrapper.

 

19 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

That's really the problem here.The devs are balancing around the boon meta and using Snowcrows benchmarks to adjust skills. I think they're trying to develop interesting ways for builds and specs share boons, but we don't always find those mechanics fun, or even want the boon meta at all.

What do you even mean that "they're balancing around the boon meta"? Boons are part of the game, if boon application was inconsequential then there would be no reason to have them in the game. As far as I'm aware they're not exactly balancing the game strictly around it anyways, because if they did, you'd have every encounter requiring you perfect uptime and, lets say, 90%+ of possible dps to do anything in the game, which is not even close to being a thing in this game, "even" in instanced pve.
If you don't find those mechanics fun or aren't interested in playing boon builds then... just play dps builds? What exactly is your issue here with that?

10 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I'm not sure if this is directed at my comment, but yes! That's exactly what I'm saying and why I commented that a fixed movement skill like Flowing Resolve is commonly considered problematic for a support build. It seems quickscrapper has the same problem with the kitten rockets!

I mean, support skills that push you out of the melee boonball are just so much fun, right? LOL.

That "fixed movement skill" is freely [ground]targetable by the user. Pretty sure it also has lower movement range than its boon application range. If you want to stay with the group after casting it (since you need to keep hitting the target for further boon application anyways), move to the side and cast it into the group. If you don't want to move to the side, use f2 backwards into f1. But then again, you're saying you don't want to play as a "boon-ball", but at the same time the issue is... that you're moving from the center of the boon ball? Please explain.

Overally snowcrows is a great resource to use, but it hurts a bit when people try to discuss state of the game or builds simply by holding the position that "since that's the snowcrows build, I HAVE TO PLAY IT and there's NO ROOM for any build modification there!". Well, again, if you want to keep min-maxing "because snowcrows listed that build and rotation!" then you're creating your own problem.

Edited April 18 by Sobx.1758

[Leo G.4501]

11 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I'm not sure if this is directed at my comment, but yes! That's exactly what I'm saying and why I commented that a fixed movement skill like Flowing Resolve is commonly considered problematic for a support build. It seems quickscrapper has the same problem with the kitten rockets!

I mean, support skills that push you out of the melee boonball are just so much fun, right? LOL.

Mostly directed at the general audience. I just think people need to hear it more, about what boon-ball meta results into. And that not everyone is a fan of it. 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

9 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Here's the question: did you read the comment chain you're responding to? Because the point was that you don't need to keep spamming movement skills if you're not min-maxing your personal dps there (1). To which he answered that it's not about min-maxing (2). To which you're now basically answering..... "but snowcrows build/numbers!". Do you notice where you got a little lost here?

Yes, if I meant healscrapper, I'd say healscrapper. But I'm saying quickscrapper, because I don't mean healscrapper.

 

What do you even mean that "they're balancing around the boon meta"? Boons are part of the game, if boon application was inconsequential then there would be no reason to have them in the game. As far as I'm aware they're not exactly balancing the game strictly around it anyways, because if they did, you'd have every encounter requiring you perfect uptime and, lets say, 90%+ of possible dps to do anything in the game, which is not even close to being a thing in this game, "even" in instanced pve.
If you don't find those mechanics fun or aren't interested in playing boon builds then... just play dps builds? What exactly is your issue here with that?

That "fixed movement skill" is freely [ground]targetable by the user. Pretty sure it also has lower movement range than its boon application range. If you want to stay with the group after casting it (since you need to keep hitting the target for further boon application anyways), move to the side and cast it into the group. If you don't want to move to the side, use f2 backwards into f1. But then again, you're saying you don't want to play as a "boon-ball", but at the same time the issue is... that you're moving from the center of the boon ball? Please explain.

Overally snowcrows is a great resource to use, but it hurts a bit when people try to discuss state of the game or builds simply by holding the position that "since that's the snowcrows build, I HAVE TO PLAY IT and there's NO ROOM for any build modification there!". Well, again, if you want to keep min-maxing "because snowcrows listed that build and rotation!" then you're creating your own problem.

Yeah, that's generally the gist of it. In order to share alacrity effectively as an alacbender, the general strategy is to run out of the melee pack, pivot or aim back into the melee, hit F2, and then start smashing attacks. It's a "running a round the backside of your kitten to get to your elbow" kind of issue. Four whacky steps to do what should be done in 1 or 2 creates a clunky gameplay that many players do not find intuitive or fun. It really makes no sense that I should have to run around like a crazed imbecile to share a buff right here I started. And if you miss your aim on F2, you can end up being useless and your whole team suffers. Sharing a buff should not be that problematic, and it makes no sense. Running out of melee range to evade an enemy attack? Absolutely fine. Yes, I get that; makes perfect sense to my brain. Running out of melee and then dashing back in just to buff my allies, while the herald is standing there chilling and laughing at my poor kitten and radiating boons. SMH. I can understand that different classes share boons differently, but at least make them intuitive, sensible, and accordant, Anet!

Also, I agree Snowcrows builds aren't for everyone and should not be considered a standard. I don't play their builds, but it's becoming clear to me that the devs are using them as the standard and balancing around them. I also don't like the boon meta that the devs are designing around. Between these two balancing focal points, I've mostly given up on instanced PVE. It's is a shame, because I used to enjoy it. I started playing more game modes where static boon balls are not as necessary, and not playing builds like alacbender that do stupid, clunky things to get from point A back to point A. I play some DPS builds, but I usually prefer support builds. I lament when classes I otherwise enjoy (like willbender) make playing support less than fun.

5 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

Mostly directed at the general audience. I just think people need to hear it more, about what boon-ball meta results into. And that not everyone is a fan of it. 

On that we agree. I'm not a fan myself, and I hate that it's become the standard that everyone expects, especially from support classes, which I otherwise tend to enjoy. Even as a DPS, you have to stand in the boonball or your effectiveness tanks.

[Jski.6180]

I would not mind seeing more forced movement it would make a lot of "spamable" attks have poisoning problems that would fit well with low cd skills. (So ideally you would have big hit skills that apply a lot of effect force you into casting with an small leap locking you out of using any other cast time effect as well as not being able to cancel the animations. I am thinking the 3ed hit to chain AA.)

I also want the ability to control the detection you move when you use such an forced movement effect not always going to way your looking or not looking. (You should be able to use burning speed to back away and use burning retreat to dash into ppl your looking at for an example.)

[draxynnic.3719]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:03 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

Here's the question: did you read the comment chain you're responding to? Because the point was that you don't need to keep spamming movement skills if you're not min-maxing your personal dps there (1). To which he answered that it's not about min-maxing (2). To which you're now basically answering..... "but snowcrows build/numbers!". Do you notice where you got a little lost here?

I did, but while people generally don't expect perfect numbers, there is a threshold beyond which people will start eyeing the kick button if the group is failing DPS checks and you're clearly underperforming (unless there's some factor in play that means they don't mind carrying you). Switching from berserker to diviner on qscrapper just to avoid using Rocket Charge might not immediately put you below that threshold, but it certainly has a strong potential to put you at a disadvantage.

[Sobx.1758]

On 4/19/2024 at 3:34 AM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Yeah, that's generally the gist of it. In order to share alacrity effectively as an alacbender, the general strategy is to run out of the melee pack, pivot or aim back into the melee, hit F2, and then start smashing attacks. It's a "running a round the backside of your kitten to get to your elbow" kind of issue. Four whacky steps to do what should be done in 1 or 2 creates a clunky gameplay that many players do not find intuitive or fun. It really makes no sense that I should have to run around like a crazed imbecile to share a buff right here I started. And if you miss your aim on F2, you can end up being useless and your whole team suffers. Sharing a buff should not be that problematic, and it makes no sense. Running out of melee range to evade an enemy attack? Absolutely fine. Yes, I get that; makes perfect sense to my brain. Running out of melee and then dashing back in just to buff my allies, while the herald is standing there chilling and laughing at my poor kitten and radiating boons. SMH. I can understand that different classes share boons differently, but at least make them intuitive, sensible, and accordant, Anet!

Also, I agree Snowcrows builds aren't for everyone and should not be considered a standard. I don't play their builds, but it's becoming clear to me that the devs are using them as the standard and balancing around them. I also don't like the boon meta that the devs are designing around. Between these two balancing focal points, I've mostly given up on instanced PVE. It's is a shame, because I used to enjoy it. I started playing more game modes where static boon balls are not as necessary, and not playing builds like alacbender that do stupid, clunky things to get from point A back to point A. I play some DPS builds, but I usually prefer support builds. I lament when classes I otherwise enjoy (like willbender) make playing support less than fun.

In the post you just quoted, I asked you to elaborate, while posing questions about your apparent simultaneous complaints about "boon ball" and what amounts to "but I can't just stand in the middle of my group :((". I also asked you what do you mean by "balancing around boon meta". It's not a "boon meta", boons are just clearly intended part of the game's design, not including them during balancing wouldn't make any sense. As far as I understand, you didn't respond to anything questioned, but just repeated what you already said in your previous post. Which is the position I already questioned.
Pressing f2 backwards and then using gap closer, including f1 isn't "running a round the backside of your kitten to get to your elbow". If you have issue with that, simply change the spec to something that isn't made specifically to be a mobile one. I'm not sure how you're "missing your aim on f2". Again, are you even aware of ranges you're trying to discuss here? Because for now it looks like you're just guessing here.

 

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I did, but while people generally don't expect perfect numbers, there is a threshold beyond which people will start eyeing the kick button if the group is failing DPS checks and you're clearly underperforming (unless there's some factor in play that means they don't mind carrying you). Switching from berserker to diviner on qscrapper just to avoid using Rocket Charge might not immediately put you below that threshold, but it certainly has a strong potential to put you at a disadvantage.

Where did I write anything about swapping berserker gear to diviner? And if the group is failing dps checks, it's not really because qdps didn't have benchmark numbers.
Actually... did you read my posts and somehow came to the conclusion what I'm saying here is "use snowcrows build, swap every berk gear to diviners and then just use leap finishers less because of boon duriation you get"? Because at this point, I'm not sure what you're commenting on.

Edited April 21 by Sobx.1758

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

In the post you just quoted, I asked you to elaborate, while posing questions about your apparent simultaneous complaints about "boon ball" and what amounts to "but I can't just stand in the middle of my group :((". I also asked you what do you mean by "balancing around boon meta". It's not a "boon meta", boons are just clearly intended part of the game's design, not including them during balancing wouldn't make any sense. As far as I understand, you didn't respond to anything questioned, but just repeated what you already said in your previous post. Which is the position I already questioned.
Pressing f2 backwards and then using gap closer, including f1 isn't "running a round the backside of your kitten to get to your elbow". If you have issue with that, simply change the spec to something that isn't made specifically to be a mobile one. I'm not sure how you're "missing your aim on f2". Again, are you even aware of ranges you're trying to discuss here? Because for now it looks like you're just guessing here.

 

Where did I write anything about swapping berserker gear to diviner? And if the group is failing dps checks, it's not really because qdps didn't have benchmark numbers.
Actually... did you read my posts and somehow came to the conclusion what I'm saying here is "use snowcrows build, swap every berk gear to diviners and then just use leap finishers less because of boon duriation you get"? Because at this point, I'm not sure what you're commenting on.

I have no problem with boons. I like boons. They are a good buff systems and should be in the game. I dislike the current balance design that the devs are balancing skills around keeping boons up 100% of the time in a small melee ball. I preferred it back when boons were blasted in smaller windows for bursts, pushes, and damage mitigation spikes. I'm not alone on this. Search the forums and you'll find entire threads dedicated to dislike of the boon ball meta. Sorry, I thought this was a commonly understood term on the forums here. My bad if that wasn't clear.

I said I dislike alacbender, because I find it clunky for a support option. That's all there is to it. I have no problem with willbenders having substantial mobility otherwise. Movement abilities for the use of mobility is great! That should be their primary purpose. Forcing movement for the primary sake of supporting your team with buffs, I find clunky, unintuitive, and unnecessary. I do have to change which support class I play because of it. I wish I didn't have to, because I like the class and playstyle otherwise.

I'd be much happier if alacrity and other boon support on willbenders were moved to Crashing Courage instead, because that can be GT where I need it. Or better yet, tap f2 during Flowing Resolve to stop early, so I can control the movement. That should be base anyway on all movement skills (maybe not rocket boots, because that's a fun trope). Who takes off in a sprint without being able to stop where they want to? That sounds dangerous and stoopid. Maybe if you have ostrich intelligence you just keep running past your mark?

Also, if you feel I'm repeating myself, it's because that's my only opinion on the matter. I have no opinion or understanding of it otherwise. No intended disrespect to you or anyone else.

Edited April 21 by Gaiawolf.8261
spelling, grammar, and clarity

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I have no problem with boons. I like boons. They are a good buff systems and should be in the game. I dislike the current balance design that the devs are balancing skills around keeping boons up 100% of the time in a small melee ball.

But, again:

On 4/18/2024 at 5:03 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

As far as I'm aware they're not exactly balancing the game strictly around it anyways, because if they did, you'd have every encounter requiring you perfect uptime and, lets say, 90%+ of possible dps to do anything in the game, which is not even close to being a thing in this game, "even" in instanced pve.

 

16 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Search the forums and you'll find entire threads dedicated to dislike of the boon ball meta. Sorry, I thought this was a commonly understood term on the forums here. My bad if that wasn't clear.

I didn't need an explanation of what "boon ball" is, I needed (and still do) and explanation of how you're complaning about the boonball itself while at the same time complaining about having to move from the center of that ball (because it's not even spreading away from the group, it's more like... not sticking to the center of it for a second or fraction of it). So you want the gameplay to be even more passive when that's what staying in a boonball promotes or what the idea here is?

16 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I said I dislike alacbender, because I find it clunky for a support option. That's all there is to it.

Cool, then play something else. It isn't "clunky" to me for the reasons stated above. You mentioned qherald as an option you'd like, in that case don't try turning alacbender into herald, but just play qherald as your support option instead. Or, you know, if you don't want to be bothered with that whole boon meta(?) then play dps as already mentioned before.
Plenty of options for you to play, but instead of using those solutions, you're sticking to "no, I need to keep playing what I dislike and push to change it into something I'd like". That's nonsense. Rather clearly you already have other options you can and do prefer. So use those.

Edited April 21 by Sobx.1758

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

But, again:

 

I didn't need an explanation of what "boon ball" is, I needed (and still do) and explanation of how you're complaning about the boonball itself while at the same time complaining about having to move from the center of that ball (because it's not even spreading away from the group, it's more like... not sticking to the center of it 24/7). So you want the gameplay to be even more passive when that's what staying in a boonball promotes or what the idea here is?

Cool, then play something else. It isn't "clunky" to me for the reasons stated above. You mentioned qherald as an option you'd like, in that case don't try turning alacbender into herald, but just play qherald as your support option instead. Or, you know, if you don't want to be bothered with that whole boon meta(?) then play dps as already mentioned before.
Plenty of options for you to play, but instead of using those solutions, you're sticking to "no, I need to keep playing what I dislike and push to change it into something I'd like". That's nonsense. Rather clearly you already have other options you can and do prefer. So use those.

The primary complaint with the boonball meta, is that players find it static and uninteresting. It comes down to playing rotations that can keep up static buffs instead of timing them for more interesting play. It also creates the problem that you need boons to be effective. Some specs do up to 3x their damage standing in a boonball than outside it. So you are forced to stand in melee with your 1500 range rifle or other nonsense, or you're dragging the group down. No one wants to be that guy.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

The primary complaint with the boonball meta, is that players find it static and uninteresting.

Exactly -and somehow at the same time you're complaining about having to move around a little instead of spamming static rotation in the middle of that ball.
Standing in the boon ball 24/7? Static and uninteresting! (agreed btw)
Having to be a bit more active? Clunky! Unnecessary! Complicated "and what if you miss?"!  (disagreed btw)

Edited April 21 by Sobx.1758

[Gaiawolf.8261]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Exactly -and somehow at the same time you're complaining about having to move around a little instead of spamming static rotation in the middle of that ball.
Standing in the boon ball 24/7? Static and uninteresting! (agreed btw)
Having to be a bit more active? Clunky! Unnecessary! Complicated "and what if you miss?"!  (disagreed btw)

I don't find the mechanical process of running out of an area to dash back in intuitive. I don't find it just a bit more active, I also find it clunky. A bit more active would be fine, if I liked the way they did it. I don't. It's that simple, and I'm not alone, so it's not just a me thing. 

Some other bit more involved strategies I do like are blasting combo fields, managing limited resources, timing powerful effect (like aegis), skill interactions, and even positioning (when I can choose my position without what I consider clunky movement; this happens a lot in wvw 👍, but apparently not in pve 👎). Sadly, for me (not for you), those are not available for support willbenders. We are allowed to disagree on what we like and where we like to see it.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I don't find the mechanical process of running out of an area to dash back in intuitive. I don't find it just a bit more active, I also find it clunky. A bit more active would be fine, if I liked the way they did it. I don't. It's that simple, and I'm not alone, so it's not just a me thing. 

Some other bit more involved strategies I do like are blasting combo fields, managing limited resources, timing powerful effect (like aegis), skill interactions, and even positioning (when I can choose my position without what I consider clunky movement; this happens a lot in wvw 👍, but apparently not in pve 👎). Sadly, for me (not for you), those are not available for support willbenders. We are allowed to disagree on what we like and where we like to see it.

I don't find complaining about boon ball while complaining about not being able to stick to the center of the boonball intuitive or logical either. Movement skills can be problematic depending on how they're made, but alacbenders skills -or their use cases- are not problematic nor clunky.
It's great that you dislike something, it's even better that, as already mentioned many times (and avoided by you each of those times), you already have plenty of choices to fit what you're looking for. You don't need to keep playing what you dislike just to complain that it needs to be changed into "what that other class/build does too". Just play "that other class/build". It's that simple indeed.

Edited April 21 by Sobx.1758

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't find complaining about boon ball while complaining about not being able to stick to the center of the boonball intuitive or logical either. Movement skills can be problematic depending on how they're made, but alacbenders skills are not problematic nor clunky.
It's great that you dislike something, it's even better that, as already mentioned many times (and avoided by you each of those times), you already have plenty of choices to fit what you're looking for. You don't need to keep playing what you dislike just to complain that it needs to be changed into "what that other class/build does too". Just play "that other class/build". It's that simple indeed.

I don't keep playing it. I quit alacbender awhile ago. But I learned willbendering and liked the playstyle, until I got to alacbenders. Now I have to learn another  class, which I don't really have time or motivation for right now. Having options is great, and I think the game does a good job with them overall, but they're not always useful if I don't like or don't have time to invest in them. At least I main FB, which gives me some extant quickness options. I just have nothing for when a group wants alac support until I find time to learn something else.

For context, I'm not really that upset here. I still love the game. I'm just sharing some opinions on how I'd like to play it and some design principles I favor in general.

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I don't keep playing it. I quit alacbender awhile ago.

Great, then leave it for people who enjoy playing it and play what you enjoy instead, because it's not clunky nor problematic as already explained.

17 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

But I learned willbendering and liked the playstyle, until I got to alacbenders. Now I have to learn another  class, which I don't really have time or motivation for right now.

Sure, so you enjoyed dps wb, but since awb is also a thing, it somehow rendered playing wb not viable or sth, so now you have to learn a new class. That just doesn't make any sense. Even moreso when you already have a support option available in qfb. You "not having time or motivation to learn another class/build/role, but still wanting it" isn't an issue to solve by changing how the class/build plays.

17 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

For context, I'm not really that upset here. I still love the game. I'm just sharing some opinions on how I'd like to play it and some design principles I favor in general.

For context, neither am I -just pointing out (as mentioned many times by now) that you already have builds with "those design principles you favor in general". You "not feeling like going for them" isn't a reason to turn this build/class into what something else already does.

Edited April 21 by Sobx.1758