How much does the commander know about the mists?

[Dilly Mick.2841]

Durring "Connecting the Pieces" in living world season 1, Ellen Kiel says she'll "clear you to enter the mists portal" this seems to suggest that this is the commander's first time visiting the mists canonically.

However, mist warriors attempt to recruit anyone and everyone they can grab the ear of - which implies anyone can visit the mists at any time. 

Furthermore, Skimming through the wiki there's a lot of information about the mists only known by a handful of people and very little known by everyone, but deciphering how much is actually known and by who is a pain.

How is it that common knowledge of the mists is even more obscure than it's secrets? 

But here's my more serious question: at the start of the game and over certain plot milestones how much would information would be available to the commander, assuming they put in the research?

Edited April 7 by Dilly Mick.2841
(spelling errors)

[draxynnic.3719]

I wouldn't take Kiel's comment as meaning that the PC was barred from entering beforehand. I think it's more that there was a particular reason why access was restricted at that specific time.

As for the main question - my gut feeling is that the PC knows about as much about the Mists as a well read player does. There are indications that the Mists are still largely a mystery to Tyrians. If tracking back what the PC knows about the Mists in the past, it probably largely maps to what the players knew at the time that content was released. For instance, fractals were a new discovery when that content was first released, so they weren't known about specifically until after Zhaitan's death - however, it was known that the Mists sometimes create imperfect reflections of creatures, places, and events in Tyria.

[Kalavier.1097]

Isn't that particular case during the Aetherblade chasing? When they had shut down the portals due to the Aetherblade attacks that came from that area?

[Westenev.5289]

I'm more interested in how we have a secret illuminati faction dedicated to barring out outside forces from the mists, yet they seem to do nothing to stop Asura from poking holes into it. Why is research into this topic by unlearned individuals even allowed at all?

Edited April 8 by Westenev.5289

[Kalavier.1097]

2 hours ago, Westenev.5289 said:

I'm more interested in how we have a secret illuminati faction dedicated to barring out outside forces from the mists, yet they seem to do nothing to stop Asura from poking holes into it. Why is research into this topic by unlearned individuals even allowed at all?

Because their corner is outside armies bursting in. The Asura merely use existing holes going out that have been long watched.  They don't bring in hostile armies with their actions.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 4/7/2024 at 12:55 PM, Dilly Mick.2841 said:

Durring "Connecting the Pieces" in living world season 1, Ellen Kiel says she'll "clear you to enter the mists portal" this seems to suggest that this is the commander's first time visiting the mists canonically.

A piece of story that didn't get brought back in LWS1's return would be Fractured release - the last part of Ellen Kiel's arc consisting of The Lost Shores, Secret of Southsun, Cutthroat Politics, and Fractured. This storyline was pretty much predominantly the Commander joining Kiel in the first ever exploration of the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal. Fractured launched between The Nightmares Within and The Nightmare is Over.

So the Commander has definitely been to the Mists canonically - with Kiel - before Connecting the Pieces. Norn players who chose Defend the Mists biography also enter the Mists twice in that chapter 1 storyline.

And I don't think the Captain's Council technically have the right to bar people from the Fractals gate except through legal redtape, as its own privately by the Consortium. It's very probable that canonically the Commander's first step into the Fractals happened with their addition - in The Lost Shores content, which LWS1R does affirm was canon.

This all said, you should read the full sentence of what Kiel says:

Captain Ellen Kiel: I'll clear you to access the Mists portal Trin escaped into as soon as the area's secure. Feel free to interview the witnesses here as well.

(bold for emphasis on important context clue is mine) Connecting the Pieces was a new story instance added with LWS1R which revamped a story beat of The Edge of the Mists release. In this release, the Aetherblades created portals to the Edge of the Mists, allowing players to access it for the very first time. So it isn't that access to all the Mists portals were barred - rather it was specifically that one portal to the Edge of the Mists that the Aetherblades created. It is also worth noting that in the original release, the portal to the Edge of the Mists wasn't another asura gate like we got with Lion's Arch's reconstruction - instead it was one of those altered Steam Portal displays that Scarlet uses throughout LWS1. I'd have to double check but I think this original portal is used for the Memory of Lion's Arch hub (EDIT: Checked, turns out there isn't a EotM portal at all there). This element unfortunately didn't really get shown in the revamp - the open world events didn't get brought back, and the mail about it was rewritten from this:

Bad news—Scarlet's Aetherblade thugs successfully freed Mai Trin from the Fort Marriner brig and escaped into the Mists via a new portal. I'd like you to confer with Sheriff Siriam in Fort Marriner about the breakout to see if there's anything we can use to track down Mai and figure out what she's doing for Scarlet. Good luck, and thanks.

(bold for emphasis is mine) to this:

An alarm's been sounded at Fort Marriner, where we're holding Mai Trin. I heard you and your crew were in town—I'm headed to the fort now and would appreciate backup. I have a bad feeling.

Additionally, Canach's entire dialogue was removed:

Sheriff Siriam: So, Canach, why didn't you escape with Mai? In all this confusion, it would have been easy for you.

Canach: Scarlet's forces didn't even glance my way. I should be offended, but for once I'm glad to have been overlooked.

Canach: Yes, Scarlet and I share a certain...fixation on self-determination, but we are not natural allies.

Canach: I seek to define my role in this world. She seeks to tear this world down and use the rubble as her throne.

Canach: I've seen eyes like hers...in the mirror. She's not in control. Whatever drives her is destroying her day by day from within.

Canach: But the truth is, I did not wish to escape. I've made more than my share of mistakes already.

Canach: I'm determined to serve my time and pay my debt. And even more determined not to put myself in this position again.

So the entire notion of Scarlet and the Aetherblades creating the portals to the Mists is a bit hidden. In fact, the only reference I see to the Edge of the Mists portals being new is this throwaway, easily missed, generic NPC's dialogue:

Lionguard (charr): Thanks for the assist, Commander. I knew that new portal was trouble.

Every other line just says "a portal" or "the portal" (with context of it being the portal they used). So the misunderstanding is fully validated on the players' part - @Bobby Stein.3612 this might be worth editing some text to add clarity for as it's almost a LWS2 Mordremoth situation where cut content results in confusion.

There is sadly quite a lot of LWS1R that got cut out. Hopefully the open world events that remain historical can be reactivated at some point, even if we don't get the cut dialogues and instances of the chapters that did return.

On 4/7/2024 at 12:55 PM, Dilly Mick.2841 said:

However, mist warriors attempt to recruit anyone and everyone they can grab the ear of - which implies anyone can visit the mists at any time. 

Furthermore, Skimming through the wiki there's a lot of information about the mists only known by a handful of people and very little known by everyone, but deciphering how much is actually known and by who is a pain.

How is it that common knowledge of the mists is even more obscure than it's secrets?

Generally speaking, the Mists are barely known to Tyrians. After all, it's the equivalent of a more complicated space in GW, and we can barely claim to know a decent portion of the universe as a whole - if space was also magic, a confirmed multiverse, a proverbial perpetual big bang that's constantly creating things, and also where the afterlife is.

Your average Earthling likely barely knows more than the basics of the solar system and maybe some additional names and terms here and there about galaxies. I imagine the equivalent is fairly true for Tyrians, with the basics known being about the afterlives (Underworld, Fissure of Woe, etc.) since that's where their souls go when they die.

On 4/7/2024 at 12:55 PM, Dilly Mick.2841 said:

But here's my more serious question: at the start of the game and over certain plot milestones how much would information would be available to the commander, assuming they put in the research?

I'd say that depends. Asura, human, charr, norn - they all would know much more than sylvari do, for starters. And some would know more than others, depending on their upbringing. For example, as mentioned, norn PCs who chose Defend the Mists would literally enter a part of the Mists (that seems to overlap with Tyria) in the very first chapter of the game. Humans could evoke a spirit summoning ritual that opens portals to the Mists in chapter 3 (though never entering them), and there's various events and areas in the open world dealing with portals to the Mists as well - such as Godslost Swamp and the Shadow Behemoth meta.

Speaking strictly in a sense of the canon golden path (i.e., story journal), then all Commanders will be involved with the Mists in an official story capacity in LWS1 - be it the initial discovery of fractals, Kiel's actions to investigate the Thaumanova Reactor via fractals, or entering the Edge of the Mists. And as mentioned, Norn, Humans, and Priory Commanders would interact with the Mists directly or indirectly during the personal story (chapters 1, 3, and 4 respectively), and involvement with the Mists happens again in Path of Fire, LWS4, and of course Secrets of the Obscure.

Edited April 9 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Kalavier.1097]

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And I don't think the Captain's Council technically have the right to bar people from the Fractals gate except through legal redtape, as its own privately by the Consortium. It's very probable that canonically the Commander's first step into the Fractals happened with their addition - in The Lost Shores content, which LWS1R does affirm was canon.

All they can do is what they did back in old LA (still visible in the memory of LA hub). Post lionguard near the Consortium buildings and gate who give a proper and full warning to anybody going there about what to expect from the Fractals.

[Dilly Mick.2841]

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Captain Ellen Kiel: I'll clear you to access the Mists portal Trin escaped into as soon as the area's secure. 

My bad, I had a moment of stupidity where I thought I thought that was the only portal at the time. (I mostly access the mists through the UI anyway) 

 

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Your average Earthling likely barely knows more than the basics of the solar system and maybe some additional names and terms here and there about galaxies.

True but the commander is hardly your average tyrian. Even at the start of the game you're implied to have more lived experience than others of your race (with the exception of Silvari of course) 

 

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

some would know more than others, depending on their upbringing. For example, as mentioned, norn PCs who chose Defend the Mists would literally enter a part of the Mists (that seems to overlap with Tyria) in the very first chapter of the game. Humans could evoke a spirit summoning ritual that opens portals to the Mists in chapter 3 (though never entering them), and there's various events and areas in the open world dealing with portals to the Mists as well - such as Godslost Swamp and the Shadow Behemoth meta.

True, honestly I'm equally interested in what information is accessible to them if they sought it out - as much as what they know for sure. 

Either way, thank you for the context as well as for clearing up some of my misconceptions. Your post was very helpful. Thank you..