Add "Surrender" in PvP matches

[banJelacic.4201]

So many times, especially at lower tier, matches are very unbalanced, one team wipes the other team hard. 

At those time, losing team just gives up, starts afk at spawn, arguing in chat and just waits for match to end. 

It is pointless and waste of time, so I would like to have "Surrender" ability in PvP matches to become available either after X minutes, either after XYZ score difference just to finish match either when losers start to afk. 

Matches like those make me lose interest in playing PvP with people like those so would much rather to just finish it as soon as possible, to be able to queue up again in hope to get a normal team. 

[Vinny.7260]

I'd totally be down for having a surrender button added.

But it requires being that 3+ people agree to it. Just needs to be 5 minutes into the game, which is plenty of time for things to settle out.

Here's the thing, they already have the UI for voting to surrender, they can genuinely just reuse the UI for the 'ready up'. While the match is in the in-between phase.

[banJelacic.4201]

Yes, I agree 
It would need to have multiple people agreeing to it - 3 as you mentioned (2 is too low, 4 is too high) 

I would put it under Stats and team modal and not displayed on the left as for Ready because I dont want it to pop up for people when match is going great, but to have it as option when things go south. 

I have seen it in many other MMOPRG 5v5 games already - sometimes I would hate it when people press it, but if someone is pressing it to lose, it means they would not try hard enough to win anyway so would much rather finish it as soon as possible. 

[Mythras.2091]

And if surrendering ppl dont contribute to the match while they dont have enough votes (aka afk to lose the match anyway), they lose duoble points, while others keep theirs. See you in bronze Bold Idle Tantrum Catching Homosapiens 😛

Edited April 11 by Mythras.2091

[maxwelgm.4315]

I can see a problem with this in the case surrendering would give out full rewards to the winning team and the usual losing rewards for the losing team, this could be exploited in both unranked and ranked for reward track and pips farming. Maybe allow it but have the winning team win less pips/reward track points and no rank points, with the surrendering team getting nothing at all? Otherwise, this is a legit great idea, the most tiresome matches of all to me are the ones where it's just waiting until either my own or the enemy team clocks in 500 points in a lopsided match.

Edited April 11 by maxwelgm.4315

[Bladestrom.6425]

and so this question yet again.  Surrender doesn't solve the problem it makes it worse, i.e it will get abused by bad players with no fortitude, malicious players, selfish players and new players never learn.  The answer is fixing the root problem not the symptom, which means fast balance cycles for a start from ANET, and players losing the mindset that pvp is only good if you win amongst others.

[roederich.2716]

the top players earn their ranks by wintrading already. you know what happens if there be an official surrender function? they will queue snipe their matches even more and surrender for their friends on the other side.

as long as anet is (for whatever reason) not willing to perma exclude team usa, ice cream  and other cheaters from the game forever dont even think to suppor them with such function.

Edited April 11 by roederich.2716

[Shagie.7612]

5 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

Maybe allow it but have the winning team win less pips/reward track points and no rank points, with the surrendering team getting nothing at all?

In what world could anyone think it's a good idea for the opposing team, the people I beat, to be able to hurt my win, because they surrendered?
Even as the losing team, why should I, a player who didn't give up the whole match, lose my pips because the rest of my team quit?

Surely you didn't even think about your suggestion.

[Eddie.9143]

You're not getting ANYTHING in PVP because I SAID SO! Don't believe me? Don't think I have that power? Just watch.

[maxwelgm.4315]

25 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

In what world could anyone think it's a good idea for the opposing team, the people I beat, to be able to hurt my win, because they surrendered?
Even as the losing team, why should I, a player who didn't give up the whole match, lose my pips because the rest of my team quit?

Surely you didn't even think about your suggestion.

Win trade is known to happen in this game and a few of the known wintraders have been namedropped already. It's certainly not ideal to not win anything when the other team surrenders but it's otherwise easily exploitable to win points by people who already exploit massively to begin with. Also quick surrenders due to DC/afk with no rewards or losses exist in many competitive games such as LoL. I do realize not winning points when they surrender a close game would also be exploitable - this is though a matter of only allowing surrenders in between certain time windows or in special conditions like a DC before 5 mins. Anet are the ones who'd have to balance that if they ever decided to implement it.

As for pips from losing, yeah it also sucks because pips are a progression system rather than a competitive system - which begs the question of why they are only in ranked to begin with. We could very well just live with it and let people farm from surrenders in unranked if pips were there instead. Again, if removing or at least reduced rewards for surrendering is not a thing, it's 100% going to be exploited and we just change one issue for another. You should indeed be motivated to push your team into not giving up as well as they should be motivated not to give up as well lest they lose rewards - except if all 5 of you would have no choice in a match so bad you can only wait at base and then why not give up your 3 pips for 10 extra minutes of your life? Maybe Anet has the right idea not allowing surrenders after all if people would insist on collecting their gains every match no matter how miserable the match itself might be.

[Yerlock.4678]

12 hours ago, banJelacic.4201 said:

So many times, especially at lower tier, matches are very unbalanced, one team wipes the other team hard. 

At those time, losing team just gives up, starts afk at spawn, arguing in chat and just waits for match to end. 

It is pointless and waste of time, so I would like to have "Surrender" ability in PvP matches to become available either after X minutes, either after XYZ score difference just to finish match either when losers start to afk. 

Matches like those make me lose interest in playing PvP with people like those so would much rather to just finish it as soon as possible, to be able to queue up again in hope to get a normal team. 

Huge bump. Just allow 5 teammates (or the max amount of remaining teammates if one dc’d or rq) to vote surrender if they want to. It’s demoralizing especially new players to have to sit there and wait for their team to get steamrolled and then wait 5-10 minutes for the next match. Altogether that could be 15-20 minutes of wasted time that could easily be prevented if their team was able to vote surrender.

I doubt they’ll ever do it though. Not enough players play this mode to lift a finger for it other than occasional balance. And that’s just to save face. Rip

[banJelacic.4201]

I thought about it being exploited but don't think it could be to be honest...

If they implement it in a way that you can surrender only after 5 min of game and not instant, you need at least 3-4 players to surrender the match it would not be automatic 

Plus as far as I know you cannot choose you are you going to play against, only queue together to play with - so people would not be able to use this to help friends.

And additionally I would add that if you even voted 3 surrenders in a row, or 5 in 7 matches within a day or 12 hours (doesn't have to be accepted by other players) - you get 10-15 min queue cool down similar like you get when you do not accept a queue.

I don't think it would get exploit more than it is having bots or afk people in a team.

 

And I don't think that this issue is happened due to unbalanced system but due to toxic people because they start bad mouthing and insulting everyone that didn't do exactly as they had in mind, because they wiped or similar - and Anet cannot fix toxic people.

I "don't mind" losing a game when people are better than me, when I see that team is trying but it is just not good enough because I am a casual player as well - but I hate the most when I end up in a team with toxic kids that just start bad mouthing everyone while they are rally bots as well which they just start dying even more, afk at spawn and just kitten talk in chat and similar.

I want those matches to be done as soon as possible to be away from those people as fast as possible.

 

I am sure that 80% of the matches that would be voted to surrender have at least 1-2 people not even trying anymore in a team - either dying to speed match up or afk at spawn for opposite team to farm them there.

Loss would still be loss for those people and win would still be a win for winning team.

[banJelacic.4201]

This is what I am talking about... 
After few minutes of a match, when it was 50:200 the opponent team started to afk at spawn - map is fully empty, all of us are just standing and waiting for match to finish. 

Currently I am Platinum 1 division and this happened in Ranked PvP match. 

https://ibb.co/yYphZ6d

[Yerlock.4678]

On 4/11/2024 at 12:02 PM, Bladestrom.6425 said:

and so this question yet again.  Surrender doesn't solve the problem it makes it worse, i.e it will get abused by bad players with no fortitude, malicious players, selfish players and new players never learn.  The answer is fixing the root problem not the symptom, which means fast balance cycles for a start from ANET, and players losing the mindset that pvp is only good if you win amongst others.

It won't get abused! Just make it require all teammates to agree and have a time limit of 5 minutes. They'd be forced to play for 1/3 of the game but can leave if the whole team wants to after some time. People shouldn't need to suffer needlessly if the whole team is hating the match. Just require the game to be played for an amount of time and force it to be the whole team to allow surrender. This is what many moba's do it's not abused at all.

[Crackz.5278]

If you want Anet to listen to you, use the @ and mention all the admins you know, maybe some will listen to you

[Shagie.7612]

On 4/23/2024 at 10:09 AM, banJelacic.4201 said:

This is what I am talking about... 
After few minutes of a match, when it was 50:200 the opponent team started to afk at spawn - map is fully empty, all of us are just standing and waiting for match to finish. 

Currently I am Platinum 1 division and this happened in Ranked PvP match. 

https://ibb.co/yYphZ6d

That match went for like 7 minutes, ultimately.
Something that's truly a stomp barely goes over 5. Same for ones where the other team doesn't play.

Is saving a couple minutes of time really that big of a deal? Really putting a lot of value on that 2 minutes of life.
And in exchange, you give people the option of /ffing every single match at 5 minutes because they're whiny babies who won't play it out and try to win.

It's unnecessary at best and damaging at worst.

Everyone comparing it to mobas is clueless. Conquest doesn't have towers, minions or other objectives that slow you down and prevent you from running it down mid as easily against an afk team.

Edited April 24 by Shagie.7612

[Bunbury.8472]

y'all obviously don't know about Red Resign in guild wars 1....

 

the community figured out if red team always resigns you can farm rewards extremely fast. it's pretty obvious anet thinks the community will do it again so they haven't added surrender.

 

what do you think? do you have access to weapons grade copium and think it wouldn't happen again?

Edited April 24 by Bunbury.8472

[Bladestrom.6425]

17 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

y'all obviously don't know about Red Resign in guild wars 1....

 

the community figured out if red team always resigns you can farm rewards extremely fast. it's pretty obvious anet thinks the community will do it again so they haven't added surrender.

 

what do you think? do you have access to weapons grade copium and think it wouldn't happen again?

Yeah that's the problem, it only takes a few bad eggs who value wins and loot over gameplay for this kind of thing to snowball uncontrollably, its inevitable.

[Endorphin.9147]

On 4/11/2024 at 6:02 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

You're not getting ANYTHING in PVP because I SAID SO! Don't believe me? Don't think I have that power? Just watch.

What are ya gonna do? Stalk the guy and q sync with alts? Smellin like some basement goblin behavior if you ask me

[Yerlock.4678]

On 4/24/2024 at 6:34 PM, Bunbury.8472 said:

y'all obviously don't know about Red Resign in guild wars 1....

 

the community figured out if red team always resigns you can farm rewards extremely fast. it's pretty obvious anet thinks the community will do it again so they haven't added surrender.

 

what do you think? do you have access to weapons grade copium and think it wouldn't happen again?

Add a timer of 5 minutes and force 5 teammates to surrender, lessen the rewards/xp to the surrendering team. ez

[Magus Antiverse.8569]

On 4/11/2024 at 7:57 AM, maxwelgm.4315 said:

I can see a problem with this in the case surrendering would give out full rewards to the winning team and the usual losing rewards for the losing team, this could be exploited in both unranked and ranked for reward track and pips farming. Maybe allow it but have the winning team win less pips/reward track points and no rank points, with the surrendering team getting nothing at all? Otherwise, this is a legit great idea, the most tiresome matches of all to me are the ones where it's just waiting until either my own or the enemy team clocks in 500 points in a lopsided match.

While I agree a surrender system will probably get abused, I feel the issue of not being able to surrender at all should be addressed before trying to address potential abuses.  The benefits typically outweigh potential abuses.  Additionally, as some have mentioned, there are ways to help alleviate this: requiring majority vote (3+ or more), having a 5/5 vote for early surrender (something like 5 min or under), having a minimum time required for voting to be available (5-10 min, should be calculated based on average match length), applying a surrender cooldown (30-60 sec between previous vote end and next vote starting) so its not spammed, or even something like giving additional pips based on match length to encourage people to play to the end

[Nightcore.5621]

Guild wars 1 had that. It was heavy abused to get fast reward as fast as possible while always being "rr" that means red team resign. So red team always did it. It was heavy abused so i dont think it will be a good thing.

[Bladestrom.6425]

7 hours ago, Nightcore.5621 said:

Guild wars 1 had that. It was heavy abused to get fast reward as fast as possible while always being "rr" that means red team resign. So red team always did it. It was heavy abused so i dont think it will be a good thing.

Exactly, we already have people abusing others by trying to accelerate losses by afking.

[Leafstorm.1349]

Not the best idea. Cheating aside, this just goes to show that 90% of the player population does not know that MOST games are still able to be won. You could even be down by 200 and win by a single point in the end. Each game is unique, and each game is never lost until you give up. Instead of giving up, you should be thinking about how you need to mold your play to have greater impact on the match.